Allah or Jesus?

[Warrior For Christ]

Allah or Jesus?
> >
> >by Rick Mathes

> >Last month I attended my annual training session
> >that's required for maintaining my state prison
> >security clearance. During the training session there
> >was a presentation by three speakers representing the
> >Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who
> >explained each of their belief systems.
> >I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam
> >had to say.
> >The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of
> >Islam, complete with a video. After the presentations,
> >time was provided for questions and answers.
> >When it was my turn, I directed my question to the
> >Imam and asked: "Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but
> >I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have
> >declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels
> >of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which
> >is a command to all Muslims, they are assured of a
> >place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me
> >the definition of an infidel?"
> >
> >There was no disagreement with my statements and,
> >without hesitation, he replied, "Non-believers!"
> >
> >I responded, "So, let me make sure I have this
> >straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded
> >to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can
> >go to Heaven. Is that correct?
> >The expression on his face changed from one of
> >authority and command to that of a little boy who had
> >just gotten caught with his hand in he cookie jar. He
> >sheepishly replied, "Yes."
> >I then stated, "Well, sir, I have a real problem
> >trying to imagine Pope John Paul commanding all
> >Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr. Stanley
> >ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to
> >Heaven!
> >
> >The Imam was speechless.
> >I continued, "I also have problems with being your
> >friend when you and your brother clerics are telling
> >your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question.
> >Would you rather have your Allah who tells you to kill
> >me in order to go to Heaven or my Jesus who tells me
> >to love you because I am going to Heaven and He wants
> >you to be with me?
> >
> >You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his
> >head in shame.
> >This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a
> >well known leader in prison ministry.  Needless to
> >say, the organizers and/or promoters of the
> >'Diversification' training seminar were not happy with
> >Rick's way of dealing with the Islamic Imam and
> >exposing the truth about the Muslim's beliefs.
> >I think everyone in the US should be required to read
> >this, but with the liberal justice system, liberal
> >media, and the ACLU, there is no way this will be
> >widely publicized.

[Broken]

Sura 2:62 Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabaeans - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.

The Quran does not appear to treat Christians and Jews (and Sabaeans...I don't know who they are/were, samaritans perhaps) as "unbelievers" or "infidels", but calls  them the peoples of the book.

Just a reflection.

[ebia]

For the story to be true you'd need a remarkably stupid Imam.

This site throws severe doubt on the accuracy of the story:
http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/rickmathes.html

Also as the site points out, the view of an individual iman is not even vaguely comparible with the Pope saying anything - every islamic congregation is independent of every other independent islamic congregation, and the view of one imam is no more representative of the views of all Muslims than the view of one pastor of an independent church is representative of the views of all Christians.

[Tibby]

What a jerk. Hey guys, lets take our anger toward Muslims out on a simple cleric who is trying to help you to your job better. What an self-righteous pig! Yeah, this Rich guy really needs to reassess his priorities if disrespecting other faiths and shaming someone who might have in an other situation but open to salvation is something he is bragging about. I think it is safe to say what ever chance that Cleric had of being saved is all but lost, due to the ornery attitude of Rick Mathes. Thanks a lot, Rich, we don't have enough Muslims who hate Christians as it is! Keep up the good work, maybe Bin-laden will add your name in his next tape!

[Warrior For Christ]

For the story to be true you'd need a remarkably stupid Imam.

This site throws severe doubt on the accuracy of the story:
http://www.breakthechain.org/exclusives/rickmathes.html

Also as the site points out, the view of an individual iman is not even vaguely comparible with the Pope saying anything - every islamic congregation is independent of every other independent islamic congregation, and the view of one imam is no more representative of the views of all Muslims than the view of one pastor of an independent church is representative of the views of all Christians.

You must be a muslim or a roman catholic. (samething)

[Warrior For Christ]

What a jerk. Hey guys, lets take our anger toward Muslims out on a simple cleric who is trying to help you to your job better. What an self-righteous pig! Yeah, this Rich guy really needs to reassess his priorities if disrespecting other faiths and shaming someone who might have in an other situation but open to salvation is something he is bragging about. I think it is safe to say what ever chance that Cleric had of being saved is all but lost, due to the ornery attitude of Rick Mathes. Thanks a lot, Rich, we don't have enough Muslims who hate Christians as it is! Keep up the good work, maybe Bin-laden will add your name in his next tape!

And you must be a muslim or a roman catholic. (samething)

[Tibby]

Neither, actually.

But I don’t see how they are the same thing. I have never heard of that before, but I would like to learn more about it. Can you please post some more info on this Theory, maybe a link or a book. It sounds like it would make for an interesting read, in the very least.

[BUTCHA]

What a jerk. Hey guys, lets take our anger toward Muslims out on a simple cleric who is trying to help you to your job better. What an self-righteous pig! Yeah, this Rich guy really needs to reassess his priorities if disrespecting other faiths and shaming someone who might have in an other situation but open to salvation is something he is bragging about. I think it is safe to say what ever chance that Cleric had of being saved is all but lost, due to the ornery attitude of Rick Mathes. Thanks a lot, Rich, we don't have enough Muslims who hate Christians as it is! Keep up the good work, maybe Bin-laden will add your name in his next tape!

tibby how do you realy feal dont hold back brother

[Tibby]

First, I want to read this "muslims are catholics" Theory, sounds so interesting

[Brother Love]

First, I want to read this "muslims are catholics" Theory, sounds so interesting

ROFLOL

Tibby, every true Christian knows the roman ctholic religion (started in the eary 300's)started the man-made religion the muslims follow (in the eary 600's). WAKE UP!

Brother Love

<))><

[Allinall]

First, I want to read this "muslims are catholics" Theory, sounds so interesting

ROFLOL

Tibby, every true Christian knows the roman ctholic religion (started in the eary 300's)started the man-made religion the muslims follow (in the eary 600's). WAKE UP!

Brother Love

<))><

Actually it was started when a man, despised by those in his city, had a vision.  Interestingly enough, this man had alot of contact with the Jews of the area.  Also interestingly enough, he took many Jewish beliefs, and along with the "revelations" from Allah, developed a system of religious practice, which he then enforced in the city that had rejected him by the edge of a sword.  Interesting how he derived much of his understanding from the Jewish populace and not the Catholic religion.  Read up on the truth Bro.  It can be...interesting.

[C C]

   I think new religions get started everytime Christians stop loving their neighbor.  It's the "if you can't join 'em, make up your own" principle.  Or if their behavior is so terrible that you can't stand it, make up a new religion.  I think Christians need to take responsibility when other religions get started.  What it means is that the current religion is severely failing and Satan gets someone so fired up about it that they start something new.  Hey, all who come in the name of Christ, the only way to reverse the damage is to live out His love.  That's all he requires of us.  The Battle is the Lords.  

[Raphu]

"Islam Reviewed" by M. Ali, born and raised Muslim is good book to understand the deep split between Muhammadism and Christianity. "Jihad" will play a major part in leading the world to Armageddon, and in this book, the references of the Koran to killing infidels are all listed and plain to see.
The scism between those of Israel and those who follow Allah is blood deep, going all the way back to Isaac and Ishamael - the sons of Abraham. Isaac was the son of Sarah, the son God promised Abraham and through his seed the world would receive the promise, while Ismael's mother was Hagar the handmaiden's of Sarah - Abraham's son of the flesh. Of Ishamel, the father of all the Arabs, the Bible says:

Genesis 16:12  And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.

This many thousand year old description of Ismael is accurate for today, as we see Jihad spread world wide before us everynight on the TV news.

[C C]

Scary aint it.  

[ebia]

First, I want to read this "muslims are catholics" Theory, sounds so interesting

ROFLOL

Tibby, every true Christian knows the roman ctholic religion (started in the eary 300's)started the man-made religion the muslims follow (in the eary 600's). WAKE UP!

Brother Love

<))><

Actually it was started when a man, despised by those in his city, had a vision.  Interestingly enough, this man had alot of contact with the Jews of the area.  Also interestingly enough, he took many Jewish beliefs, and along with the "revelations" from Allah, developed a system of religious practice, which he then enforced in the city that had rejected him by the edge of a sword.  Interesting how he derived much of his understanding from the Jewish populace and not the Catholic religion.  Read up on the truth Bro.  It can be...interesting.

If I remember correctly, he also had contact with decidedly heretical christian sect, but never with orthodox christianity.