Newbie Christian's thoughts/questions on Salvation

[Michel]

My first post...

I'm having trouble in this area these days... so I thought I'd see if I could get some clarity from a discussion on the topic of the (generally accepted?) deadline for Salvation. Here's where I stand:

- Jesus wants me saved, and will never turn his back on me.
- As long as I turn my back on Jesus, I don't receive salvation (for obvious reasons).
- Although I am mortal, my soul is eternal. I have free will, now and forever.
- If after, say 1000, years of turning my back on Jesus (where my body has surely died by now) I saw the errors of my ways and asked for forgiveness, Jesus would be standing there (as He had always been) holding the door open, and welcoming me.

See the thing is if I don't have that choice, it would mean that once I had come to repent and (finally) accept Jesus, He would have already turned his back on me, which goes against everything I believe of a loving God.

I know there is nothing in the scriptures to support this, but cannot see another way, if I am to stay focused on the loving nature of God.

Can this view be accepted in mainstream Christianity? IS there any support in the scriptures for this that I am unaware of?

Thx,
Michel

[LeeH]

It is a difficult question you ask. However I don't quite believe
everything I read, no one should because how would you know
what is true? I hope that is not offensive to anyone. Some people would say you either believe or not.

I think it says some where in the bible, Believe in God not in the words of man. I would disagree on this point. I would say believe only in the truth, not in the words of man.

I can see much better that way and I know what that word means to me. It is;

The answer to all questions that can be known,
The knowledge of all secrets which can be sought and
without truth nothing can exist. There can be nothing greater.

When I read this I know this is God. For I can say I can believe in God before I read any book, for that way I will always believe in my lord first and the book will come second. It is in my mind and heart that knows this to be true. I can not say what you should believe in, I would never tell you what you should think, it is your test, take it or not, that is the choice God gave you.

I do not look for salvation only the truth, if I have earned such a thing it will be given. Love of the truth is my goal and I
have some way to go yet after telling so many lies in my past.

It's been written Jesus said many fine words of wisdom which I can see to be truth, but from my understanding he was the messenger of God and sacrificed himself for the saviour of mankind. If you can not love someone for such a thing you are blind and lost in this world of deception.

The problem I have is I wish to believe in Christ, like all christians but I did not witness the events and it goes against
my belief in what I have said above, so I can not until I can be sure, more studying I thinks. So you see we all have our own crosses to bare in one way and another, you are not alone.

[JudgeNot]

Michel and LeeH,
Although neither of you used the word “doubt” – I sense doubt in your posts.

In my ongoing effort to solidify my faith, I go at it from this angle:  
I am an educated person who holds a job which only an educated person can hold.  I’ve studied the sciences.  I’ve read the philosophies.  I write papers regularly published in engineering journals.  I am one of those persons paid to think, and able to readily translate my thoughts toward the building of those things which will satisfy the infrastructure of modern man and man’s society.  However, FAITH is an entirely different ballgame.  I know enough science to know that “evolution” (in the humanist’s since of the term) is mathematically impossible within any time period.  As I’ve told people before:  If you find a wristwatch on the beach, did it have a creator or was it the product of evolution?  The chances of a man “evolving” from pond scum are a billion times greater than the chances of a wristwatch evolving from beach sand, yet 100% of people asked will say the watch had a creator.  And of that 100%, 100% of the non-believers are still convinced that man is the product of evolution.

What does this short synopsis have to do with your search for truth, and ultimate belief that Jesus Christ is the way, the only way, to eternal life?  I know that we are creations of God.  There is absolutely no other explanation.  Knowing that I am a child of God, I next have to study history to discover why I should follow Christ rather than Buddha or Mohammed or Joe Smith or Joseph Blough or Baal or humanism.  The Bible is the greatest source of history available to us.  Nonbelievers have been trying to discredit the Bible for 1700 years, and while some have ended up clarifying scripture, no one has yet been able to discredit the book.  Why?  Because it is God’s Word, and as is stated:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
Through Him all things were made; without Him nothing was made that has been made. In Him was life, and that life was the light of men.
John 1:1-4

So we know that the Word has always been and will always be.  We also know the ‘He’ in “He was with God in the beginning” is Jesus Christ our savior.  

From this comes Faith.  Faith is not a noun, or an adjective, or an adverb, or a preposition – FAITH is a verb.  Faith is a daily – no – faith is a minute by minute exercise in walking with Him.  The doubt you may feel may actually act to strengthen your faith.  Doubt is very, very normal.  How we react to doubt, is through faith.  When we react to doubt with faith, our faith is strengthened – and as the cycle of reactions continues our faith grows.  It’s a lot like the muscles in your body – the more you work them, the stronger they get.  Faith is exercise.  

Don’t let doubts turn you from the Truth.  When you doubt, turn to prayer and scripture.  The more often you turn to Him with your questions (doubts) the stronger you will become, and the more you will find that He fills your heart.  

May He strengthen you, and be with you.
Yours in Him,
JN

PS:  Welcome to C-Unite!  May your stay be blessed!

[Reba]

Nice post Judge.  

[JudgeNot]

Dearest Reba - the credit is the Lord's - I simply wrote under His direction.  The power comes from the generator - I'm just one of the wires!  (And I am humbled to be a wire!)  He is soooooooooo wonderful!
 

JN

[LeeH]

I think Judgenot you have not read what I wrote correctly. I have doubt in the name Christ, not in Jesus the saviour. I also like you know that evolution is impossible without a creator, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever. You found God in a book, I didn't, I found the lord from a word and he speaks to me in many ways. The word Truth does have a meaning it is God, doesn't it say in the bible about God being the truth, the light and the way. I truly understand this meaning. I have never seen my God and therefore I can not claim to know his name, I can only know him by the word truth, for if I was to say his name was Christ, I would be telling a lie wouldn,t I? I would be guessing his name unless of course I can accept that when the bible was formed man did not make this name up or mess with the teachings.

If I were to know my God by a name it would be Truth for I can not say it is any other. Gods name now has meaning to me. If I were to say my Lords name is not truth it is Christ, what would I be saying? All names have a meaning and there is nothing greater in the word truth is there?

[JudgeNot]

Sorry about misinterpreting your post.  Now that I’ve read your clarification, I can safely say that not only did I completely mangle my response (I must have a wire crossed   ), but I haven’t even the vaguest clue as to what you’re talking about.  I don’t do ‘abstract thought’ well – particularly when it comes to theology.  To me, there is nothing secret or abstract about God.  He just... Is!  

So – having humbled myself, rather than quietly backing out of this tread – I’ll do a complete about-face and march out (double-time!).  

I hope you get your question(?) comment(?) satisfactorily answered!

God bless,
JN

[Everyday Newborn]

LeeH,

Let me see if I'm understanding you correctly.  You're having trouble with the name Jesus Christ correct?  If so, please allow me to clarify.  That isn't his name actually, it's just Jesus.  Christ means "Messiah" or "Anointed", so really when they are put together as Jesus Christ, it's basically saying Jesus "The Messiah" or Jesus "The Anointed".  Many times he is referred to as 'the Christ', so you see it is not his name, but rather a reference to his deity.

And it was Jesus himself who said, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.  If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." John 14:6

The thing to catch there (as to this discussion), is that he states he is the truth, so if you accept that, then that means everything he said and did was and is the truth.  So if you accept Jesus and want to search for the truth, you'll find it in him who was with the Father from the beginning.

I hope I've helped and understood correctly what you were having trouble with.  Take care.

God bless

[Allinall]

Welcome Michel!

- If after, say 1000, years of turning my back on Jesus (where my body has surely died by now) I saw the errors of my ways and asked for forgiveness, Jesus would be standing there (as He had always been) holding the door open, and welcoming me.

Here, my friend, you would be wrong.  If you have not believed God, and accepted Jesus while physically living...you are lost.  No other way around it.  You see, we are all born spiritually dead, or separated from God:

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience-- among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.  But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ--by grace you have been saved-- and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.  For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


Ephesians 2:1-10

When God saves us, He does so in the time frame of our physical lives, through His work, and our belief in His work.  Then, and only then, are we "born again."

See the thing is if I don't have that choice, it would mean that once I had come to repent and (finally) accept Jesus, He would have already turned his back on me, which goes against everything I believe of a loving God.

Here is your problem my friend.  God is a loving God - but is that God's primary characteristic?  Is that what the angels in heaven proclaim endlessly concerning our God? "Love, Love, Love is the Lord our God"?  No!  What then does the bible say they proclaim endlessly?

In the year that King Uzziah died I saw the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up; and the train of his robe filled the temple.  Above him stood the seraphim. Each had six wings: with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew.  And one called to another and said:   "Holy, holy, holy is the LORD of hosts;
the whole earth is full of his glory!"

Isaiah 6:1-3

...and...

And the four living creatures, each of them with six wings, are full of eyes all around and within, and day and night they never cease to say,   "Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord God Almighty,
   who was and is and is to come!"


Revelation 4:8

It is because our God is holy that He is a loving God.  That is key.  Because He is holy, He is also just.  That is, He will judge according to His holiness, and our consequential shortcomings.  And let me remind you as well my friend, that it is we who turn our backs, not Him.  And the promise to never leave or forsake us comes only to those to whom the promise is given - believers.  And that promise is irrefutable by God's holy nature, mercy, grace, love, justice, and righteousness.  

[His_child]

I think Judgenot you have not read what I wrote correctly. I have doubt in the name Christ, not in Jesus the saviour. I also like you know that evolution is impossible without a creator, there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever. You found God in a book, I didn't, I found the lord from a word and he speaks to me in many ways. The word Truth does have a meaning it is God, doesn't it say in the bible about God being the truth, the light and the way. I truly understand this meaning. I have never seen my God and therefore I can not claim to know his name, I can only know him by the word truth, for if I was to say his name was Christ, I would be telling a lie wouldn,t I? I would be guessing his name unless of course I can accept that when the bible was formed man did not make this name up or mess with the teachings.

If I were to know my God by a name it would be Truth for I can not say it is any other. Gods name now has meaning to me. If I were to say my Lords name is not truth it is Christ, what would I be saying? All names have a meaning and there is nothing greater in the word truth is there?

Hi LeeH!
Do you believe that Christ was who He said is was?
Do you believe that He lived a sinless life?