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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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Sower
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2004, 01:08:33 AM »

Quote
Hell is simply torment from not knowing God.

Heidi , now that's not what the bible says about hell. Jesus describes it as a actual place of torment and if Jesus says its a real place then its a real place case closed  Wink


Amen, Jenn:

That's the only way to believe God, believe Christ ,and believe His Word -- God said it, I believe it, that settles it!

Sower
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Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father, and Jesus Christ our Lord. 1 Timothy 1:2
LeeH
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2004, 07:45:24 PM »

Hell is not your concern, salvation is. Asking questions about
such a thing will prevent you from focusing on the most important thing in your life and that is the word Truth.

Truth is clearly defined. You can not claim something to be unless you have witnessed it. To guess the answer to a question, even though it turns out to be true, you have still
told a lie, because you have claimed it to be the truth.

Truth is the meaning to your faith, you must live by that alone, otherwise you will become blind and everything may
become confusing in your life. Remember truth is the only
thing you can believe in this world.
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Reba
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« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2004, 09:16:08 PM »

Where is hell?
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darby
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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2004, 12:27:37 AM »

Some think it is in the center of the earth.  It kind of makes sense if you think about it.  The epitome of earthly-ness and this-worldly-ness, would logically be the center of the earth.  It is not my intention to go there, but it is a result of my curious humanity to ponder this concept.  You know, a good way to fight opposition is to understand it...  It is your Christian duty to fight evil and wickedness.  Understanding what hell is may in some way help you to keep off of the path which leads to it, and help you to work against it, somehow, maybe.

On the side, I would like to just state that I just took notice of the title of this web forum, and it is "Christians Unite".  It seems like sometimes the nitpicking and little things can divide us, but we must remember that what it boils down to is that we are all brothers and sisters is Christ.   Smiley    
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LeeH
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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2004, 04:02:47 AM »

Where is hell?
[Hell is not an actual place, it is an experience. Gods word is
love, it is the meaning to existence, without anything to love
there would be no point to existence. You must imagine a place where there is nothing, but you still exist, there is no
light, just darkness. I confess that I do not know the bible
that well, but isn't there a passage regarding the valley of death? God does not put you there, his word is love don't forget, you put yourself there because you do not tread the path of truth and you get lost in the darkness, by taking shortcuts.  

To many, existence is just pondering the unknown in the great pond of life, just like a goldfish must do, they know nothing of their true world, how could they fish (pardon the pun) for the truth of their world just pondering what they do
not know? You must search deep within yourself otherwise you will never truly know God. In you is truth and that is God. You will never know the true meaning by the word I am in the bible otherwise, or even the meaning to the last supper.

The bible represents the earth, you must read more than the
surface of the book, you must read the earth to understand the book. It hold all the answers to your life and beyond.

]
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #20 on: April 18, 2004, 01:28:40 AM »

Hell is not your concern, salvation is. Asking questions about
such a thing will prevent you from focusing on the most important thing in your life and that is the word Truth.

Truth is clearly defined. You can not claim something to be unless you have witnessed it. To guess the answer to a question, even though it turns out to be true, you have still
told a lie, because you have claimed it to be the truth.

Truth is the meaning to your faith, you must live by that alone, otherwise you will become blind and everything may
become confusing in your life. Remember truth is the only
thing you can believe in this world.


 I haven't witnessed Heaven, does that mean I shouldn't speak of it?
 Jesus spoke often about hell, therefore it is truth. Also, if it wasn't important Jesus wouldn't have spoken about it.

 We can and should warn others about hell. Non believers would have a legitimate complaint when they find themselves in a place they were not warned about. Jesus commands us to tell the entire truth when we witness, not just the good stuff...For example; if we know fornication is a sin and we don't warn a friend who is engaging in it, that it is a sin, then we are guilty of sinning by not telling them.

Take care Lee.

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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #21 on: April 18, 2004, 01:33:25 AM »

Where is hell?



Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Outer darkness. Hell is not in the center of the earth. However, if you read descriptions of black holes in outer space, you could easily imagine hell being one of them.

Bronzesnake.
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Symphony
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« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2004, 05:09:04 AM »


This is hell--or a foretaste of hell, where we are now.
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2004, 01:55:31 PM »


This is hell--or a foretaste of hell, where we are now.
Compared to the real hell, this world is a tropical paradise with chocolate kisses and Champaign rainstorms.. Wink
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Reba
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« Reply #24 on: April 18, 2004, 02:19:49 PM »


This is hell--or a foretaste of hell, where we are now.




Jer 10:12

12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.




Isa 11:9

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.



Ps 47:7

7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.

1 Chron 16:31

31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice: and let men say among the nations, The LORD reigneth.


Ps 67:2

2 That thy way may be known upon earth, thy saving health among all nations.


Ps 83:18

18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Gen 1:31

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


Ps 96:1
96:1 O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth.



Ps 119:119

119 Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies.

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enfant de dieu
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« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2004, 09:29:27 PM »


This is hell--or a foretaste of hell, where we are now.




Jer 10:12

12 He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion.




Isa 11:9

9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.



Ps 47:7

7 For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding.

1 Chron 16:31

31 Let the heavens be glad, and let the earth rejoice: and let men say among the nations, The LORD reigneth.


Ps 67:2

2 That thy way may be known upon earth, thy saving health among all nations.


Ps 83:18

18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth.

Gen 1:31

31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


Ps 96:1
96:1 O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth.



Ps 119:119

119 Thou puttest away all the wicked of the earth like dross: therefore I love thy testimonies.



Yes the earth was made by God in perfection but sin destroyed that perfection. Earth will be the site of destruction. Before I discuss why I would like to encourage to read the bible and to look up  all the biblical references I will give you for yourself and not just take what I say.  I believe that you can always learn something new from the bible everytime you read it. It is also a good idea to pray before opening God's Word. I am using the New King James Version.  

Sheol is a hebrew word that has been translated into three words: grave, pit, hell. There are a lot of misconceptions about heaven and hell and the state of the dead that I will touch on.  

The first misconception is that there is a  currently burning hell and that those that die go straight to heaven or hell. Ecclesiastics 9:5. "The living know that they will die. But the dead know nothing."  

The bible compares death to sleep.
John 11: 11-12 states : "These things he said, and after that he said to them. Our friends Lazarus sleeps. but I go that I may wake him up . Then his disciples said. :Lord if he sleeps he will get well. However, Jesus spoke of his death, but they thought that he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. Then Jesus said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead. And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there that you may believe. Nevertheless let us go to him. "
Jesus used sleep to emphasize the point that the dead will know nothing until their resurrection in his 2nd coming.  At which point it will be as if awakening from sleep because they will not know of the time that has passed.


Many people use Eccl. 12:7: "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it" to support the claim that the spirit a thinking entity immediately preceding death lives on to go to heaven or hell.

In the beginning of time when God created Adam and Eve he breathed into their dust made bodies the breath of life (Genesis 2:7). Without this breath or in other words "spirit" their is no life here or anywhere else. Psalms 146:3,4: "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Everything is reverted to its original state. No breath, no body equals no life.  

So When will  judgement be dealt?
John Matthew 13:40, "Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire at the end of this age." The tares represent evil, wicked, sin. Jesus specifically stated that they would be destroyed in the end of the world.

Another example can be found in Matthew 14:27 :For the son of man will come in the glory of his father with his angels, then he will reward each according to his works."

Luke 14:14. "And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee; for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just."

2 Peter 2:9: The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement to be punished"

Unlike popular belief the judgement is a step by step process that will not be dealt all at once.
1 Thessalonians 4:16,17: "For the Lord himself shall descend  from heaven and with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then  we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord"

When the righteous ascend to heaven it will not be in a secret rapture.
Rev. 1-7: Behold, he cometh with clouds, and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen"

What happends after the righteous ascend to heaven?Revelations 20:...then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not recieved  his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned  with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with his a thousand years....now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison.....and fire came down from God our of heaven and decoured them. The devil who decieved them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophets are. and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.....and I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things that were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found in the Book of life was cast into the lake of fire. "  (you should read the whole chapter).

According to scripture (the passages above) earth is the sight of damnation therefore earth will become "hell" after the 2nd Coming and other occurances stated in the bible.
The idea that the dead go straight to heaven and hell is etched in Greek mythology not biblical references.
 
Will the fire burn eternally?
Kacey asked how can anyone in heaven be happy knowing that their love one's are burning eternally? And would God be so cruel as to inflict eternal suffering?  The vindictive  and wrathful vision persented by man of God is the reason why many people have turned away from God. I agree that that state of death from the fire is only thing that's eternal. Why? because God does not take pleasure in our pain. 2Peter 3:9, "The Lord is not willing that any should perish but
that all should come to repentance". The fire is not eternal it will burn until there is nothing left to burn.
Here are some Biblical examples that depict this:
Malachi 4:3 : "And you shall tread down the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet"  

The fire shall devour them (it doesn't say 'keep on' devouring
them).....Psalm 21:9.
Evil doers will be cut off.....Psalm 37:9.
The wicked will not be.....Psalm 37:10.
The wicked shall perish.....Psalm 37:20.
They shall consume away.....Psalm 37:20.
They shall be cut off.....Psalm 37:22.
The wicked shall be slain.....Psalm 62:3.
The wicked will he destroy.....Psalm 145:20.
The wicked are reserved to the day of judgment.....Job 21:30.
They will be burned  up......Malachi 4:1.
The wicked shall be as stubble.....Malachi 34:1.
It shall leave them neither root nor branch.....Malachi 4:1.
They shall be ashes under foot.....Malachi 4:3.
Turning Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, making them an example to the ungodly..... 2Peter 2:6.
As fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them..... Revelation
20:9.

In Jude 7 Sodom and Gomorrah were burned with an "everlasting fire". Also in Isaiah 34:10- the phrase burning forever and ever is also used in regards to the land of Idumea. You must agree that neither fire is burning today.

What happends after the earth and all evil is destroyed?
Revelations 21:1" Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea, Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying." Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people. God himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, now crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away" Amen  
 
 
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