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Author Topic: Therefore by the deeds of the law.......  (Read 1765 times)
tony350
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« on: March 12, 2004, 03:10:48 AM »

Romans 3:20

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh  be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

The righteousness of God is sadly needed in the whole world. It is needed by the heathen, the moralist, the Jew, etc..the righteousness of God is needed by the whole world. There is no law anywhere that can justify any man. The law of the heather, the law of nature, the law of morality, the law of conscience, the law of Moses, none can justify a man and make him righteous in the sight of God. Even the law of Christ, laid down in the Sermon on the Mount, cannot justify a man. It is by the law that the knowledge of sin comes, a point explained in 5:20; 7:7. But no law can save a man. The law can convict men of sin, it can define sin, but it cannot emancipate man from sin. Only the grace of God can do that. But if the righteousness is to come to the individual, it must come through grace, sovereign grace, not human works.

Many say one is saved through Faith and works.

but did you know what works Jesus was talking about?

the works are..
to feed the hunry
clothe the naked
just help anyone in need....etc...but that is by no means a way of earning salvation. One should do that out of love. Everything we have.....comes from God. And I mean everything. If one is saved, believing God,trusting him, where is the boast of the law? We couldnt obey it. No one has only Jesus. If we had to stand before God and be judged by the law then EVERYONE would go to hell.

The good news is God didn't use the law to judge us.
God will judge us on the base of if we believed/trusted in Jesus.
and how if we loved/treated other people.
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Petro
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2004, 10:07:43 PM »

Sad to say, there is no work which can be added to Faith which saves anyone. Inspite of mens desire that there be.

The work, which the scriputers speak of is that of belief in Him, whom He has sent, and it is a work God performes, in all who believe.

If one can understand what Jesus meant in these verses below, one can grasp the truth of the matter.

Jhn 6
28  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
30  They said therefore unto him, What sign showest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31  Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34  Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

Jhn 6
35  ............. I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36  But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.[/color]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41  ................... I am the bread which came down from heaven.


The works tony lists are the result of Faith, which is also, a gift of God...

ALL who possess saving FAITH, will produce fruit (these are the ONLY good works acceptable to God)


Petro
« Last Edit: March 22, 2004, 11:49:11 AM by Petro » Logged

michael_legna
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« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2004, 08:28:50 PM »


Quote
Sad to say, there is no work which can be added to Faith which saves anyone. Inspite of mens desire that there be.

Neither work nor faith save us.  We are saved by grace.  But there are works that must be added to faith to perfect it and make it alive, to properly accept the gift.

Jam 2:17  Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

A dead faith certainly is not sufficient to properly accept the free gift.

James 2:22  Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

We see that faith without works is not a perfect faith and a non-perfect faith is not sufficient to accept the free gift.


Quote
The work, which the scriputers speak of is that of belief in Him, whom He has sent, and it is a work God performes, in all who believe.

If one can understand what Jesus meant in these verses below, one can grasp the truth of the matter.

Jhn 6
28  Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Of course one needs to be careful not to base their doctrines on a few verses in isolation when it is so easy to check a few others to see how this message is expanded to it proper full message.

1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

So we see that it is not enough to just believe in Him.  We must also believe in His message.  That message was to love one another.  Come to think of it you can't really believe in someone UNLESS you believe in their message.


Quote
Jhn 6
30  They said therefore unto him, What sign showest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
31  Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
32  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
34  Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35  ............. I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36  But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.[/color]
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
41  ................... I am the bread which came down from heaven.

Sure sounds to me like He is being literal here.  Especially when you consider the other verses in scripture that discuss how seriously his followers took the message to be.  Paul even discusses the risk of damnation for treating the bread and wine unworthily, not discerning the body and blood of our savior.

I guess since you fail to offer an interpretation of those verses you are not one of those who "can understand what Jesus meant in these verses".  Or maybe you have choosen to hide your light under a basket rather than share your insight into these verses.  Either way just referencing these verses when everyone already knew we were considering them adds little to the discussion.

Quote
The works tony lists are the result of Faith, which is also, a gift of God...
Quote

Where do you see that faith is a gift of God?  Why would God give us a gift that needs to be perfected?

Quote
ALL who possess saving FAITH, will produce fruit (these are the ONLY good works acceptable to God)

Is there a verse to support this idea that the only good works acceptable to God are those that are the results of faith?
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Matt 5:11  Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake:
Petro
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« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2004, 11:25:37 PM »

One must have the Holy Spirit (who was given by Jesus to lead His people to lead them into all truth), in this day and age, there are many false teachers, like michael who do not possess the Spirit, yet teach his churches false teaching as doctrines taught by Gods word.

I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in his posts.

Petro  
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michael_legna
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2004, 07:59:52 AM »

One must have the Holy Spirit (who was given by Jesus to lead His people to lead them into all truth), in this day and age, there are many false teachers, like michael who do not possess the Spirit, yet teach his churches false teaching as doctrines taught by Gods word.

I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in his posts.

Petro  

There is nothing in scripture to support your false doctrine that all Christians are always guided by the Holy Spirit to all knowledge and infallible interpretation of scripture.  The fruits of this error are seen every time you pick scriptures out in isolation and then fear to offer an interpretation with them.

So now you have become a judger of men's souls much like this thread reveals you to be a judger of the law rather than a doer.

James 4:11  Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

I declare Jesus as the Lord and no one can do that without the spirit, so your judgment is questionable as well.

1Cor 12:3  Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Petro, you never have put much stock in my posts - going so far as to respond to them without ever having even read them.  It is that type of dishonesty that I don't put much stock in.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2004, 08:34:23 AM by michael_legna » Logged

Matt 5:11  Blessed are ye when they shall revile you, and persecute you, and speak all that is evil against you, untruly, for my sake:
Petro
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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2004, 04:34:38 AM »

One must have the Holy Spirit (who was given by Jesus to lead His people to lead them into all truth), in this day and age, there are many false teachers, like michael who do not possess the Spirit, yet teach his churches false teaching as doctrines taught by Gods word.

I wouldn't put a whole lot of stock in his posts.

Petro  

There is nothing in scripture to support your false doctrine that all Christians are always guided by the Holy Spirit to all knowledge and infallible interpretation of scripture.  The fruits of this error are seen every time you pick scriptures out in isolation and then fear to offer an interpretation with them.

Well false doctirne, is something you should be familiar with, that makes you the expert.

However you do confirm what I have shared with you,  you must be born again to possess the Holy Spirit, that is the comforter, who leads all of Gods people into all truth.

 



Quote
Petro, you never have put much stock in my posts -


You are perceptive, I will say that much for you..

Quote
going so far as to respond to them without ever having even read them.  It is that type of dishonesty that I don't put much stock in.

I have only responded to those obvious errors you seek to espouse, perpetuating unbiblical doctrines, which I trust very few have believed.

You are decieved.........that is for sure.


Petro
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« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2004, 05:34:56 AM »

Quote Petro: Well false doctirne, is something you should be familiar with, that makes you the expert.


Right On

Your friend and brother

Brother Love Smiley
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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
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