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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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| | |-+  Abortion Poll For Christians Only
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Poll
Question: Is abortion AGAINST the teachings of the Holy Bible?
No - 4 (5.1%)
I don't know - 0 (0%)
Maybe - 1 (1.3%)
I don't care - 0 (0%)
I think it is - 3 (3.8%)
I know it is - 70 (89.7%)
Total Voters: 66

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Author Topic: Abortion Poll For Christians Only  (Read 15754 times)
nChrist
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« on: February 19, 2004, 08:31:12 PM »

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

This is definitely a hot topic, one that appears to have many Christians divided on what the Holy Bible either does or does not teach.

Please, this poll is about what the Holy Bible either does or does not teach on this subject. This question is not about individual rights, rather about what the Holy Bible teaches.

Please try to give a Biblical answer to this poll and quote the Scriptures as your authority. Non-Christians are specifically excluded from this poll since they don't believe in the Holy Bible.

Please, let's have a serious attempt at letting the Holy Bible speak on this topic.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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ebia
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2004, 01:23:35 AM »

FWIW, I think the protestant bible is ambiguous on the matter.
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Reba
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2004, 01:25:41 AM »

Isa 44:24

24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;
KJV

Jer 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
KJV

Isa 44:2

2 Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen
KJV


Ps 106:38-39
38 And shed innocent blood, even the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan: and the land was polluted with blood.
39 Thus were they defiled with their own works, and went a whoring with their own inventions.
KJV


Prov 6:16-19
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:


17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
KJV
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nChrist
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2004, 04:51:14 AM »

FWIW, I think the protestant bible is ambiguous on the matter.

Ebia,

I disagree, but feel free to use your Bible, Catholic I assume. I doubt that it is ambiguous, and I doubt that the teaching of the Catholic Church is ambiguous either.

Tom
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nChrist
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2004, 04:56:09 AM »

Oklahoma Howdy to Sister Reba,

Thanks for posting some excellent Scriptures to get us started. This is a lot to study and think about in one post.

Love In Christ,
Tom
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« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2004, 06:02:36 AM »

FWIW, I think the protestant bible is ambiguous on the matter.

Ebia,

I disagree, but feel free to use your Bible, Catholic I assume. I doubt that it is ambiguous, and I doubt that the teaching of the Catholic Church is ambiguous either.

Tom
All I meant was, I believe there is a verse somewhere in the deuterocanoncial books that specifically speaks against abortion, where as there clearly isn't in the rest of the canon.  I own and use variety bibles of both persuasions - as it happens my favorite is a catholic one, but mostly because I like the style of translation of the New Jerusalem.

The rest of the bible makes it quite clear that killing children is unacceptable - I don't imagine anyone would argue otherwise.   It does not unambiguously imply that an embryo or fetus is a child in that sense.  I believe it is, but I don't believe the bible is clear on the issue, or that the case is as clear cut as some would make out - the verses above could be seen as pointing in that direction, but they are hardly unambiguous.
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Gracey
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« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2004, 11:33:40 AM »

Quote
Jer 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
KJV

That seems pretty unequivocal. God says he knew us before we were in the mother's womb...

It's not so much the proving of "murdering the children", but's it's a matter of "proving" whether or not a few fetal cells are considered a child.

If one considers the multitude of prophecies (do I really have to quote all those verses) and instances where God tells people that a "child will be born unto you" it seems very much like long, long before even the conception of the child God has planned for it.

Quote
David:
1Ch 22:8  But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, Thou hast shed blood abundantly, and hast made great wars: thou shalt not build an house unto my name, because thou hast shed much blood upon the earth in my sight.
1Ch 22:9  Behold, a son shall be born to thee, who shall be a man of rest; and I will give him rest from all his enemies round about: for his name shall be Solomon, and I will give peace and quietness unto Israel in his days.


David spoke that as he was nearing death to his son. But it seems from the time God spoke it to David (prior to Solomon's birth), David believed it would be so.

Quote
Job 3:3  Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.

Job seems to point out the difference between the day he was born and the day he was conceived.

Sorry, I guess this is more opinion that anything. It's hard not to use your own moral opinions in something like this.

It will be interesting to see what everyone comes up with.

Gracey
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ebia
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« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2004, 04:35:33 PM »

Quote
Jer 1:5

5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
KJV

That seems pretty unequivocal. God says he knew us before we were in the mother's womb...

It's not so much the proving of "murdering the children", but's it's a matter of "proving" whether or not a few fetal cells are considered a child.

If one considers the multitude of prophecies (do I really have to quote all those verses) and instances where God tells people that a "child will be born unto you" it seems very much like long, long before even the conception of the child God has planned for it.
's fine as far as it goes, but it doesn't demonstrate that aborting is murder, just that it might be interfering in God's plan.  After all, the majority of embryos that are concieved die in the first few days anyway, so God clearly doesn't intend all conceptions to lead to birth.  Everytime we get in the way of God's plan we sin, but much of the time we don't know what God's plan is anyway.  The quotes make it quite clear that God knew us BEFORE we were even conceived, but you surely wouldn't say we exist as humans before we were concieved - consequently it doesn't prove that we are fully human immediately after conception.

Quote
Quote
Job 3:3  Let the day perish wherein I was born, and the night in which it was said, There is a man child conceived.

Job seems to point out the difference between the day he was born and the day he was conceived.
a.  so what?
b.  its hebrew poetic style to repeat the same idea in different words - see the psalms.

Quote
Sorry, I guess this is more opinion that anything. It's hard not to use your own moral opinions in something like this.
Indeed it is.
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« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2004, 04:42:35 PM »

FWIW, I think the protestant bible is ambiguous on the matter.

Ebia,

I disagree, but feel free to use your Bible, Catholic I assume. I doubt that it is ambiguous, and I doubt that the teaching of the Catholic Church is ambiguous either.

Tom
Seem to have forgotten to say - I know RCC teaching on this is unambiguous, but then, I'm not catholic.
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« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2004, 06:16:33 PM »

Nobody can convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced. I was merely showing the possibility given the words used.

And as far I know, being born and being conceived are two different things, regardless of hebrew ideas.

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Gracey
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« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2004, 06:20:14 PM »

I believe the Bible is somewhat ambiguous on the matter of whether a foetus in the womb is a person, and therefore on the issue of whether abortion is ok or not.

I do think that the Bible does teach that intentional miscarriage (that is what abortion is) is not a punishable offence under the Law. I'd point you to Exodus 21:22-25 and Numbers 5 on this. The first states that if, during fighting, someone injures a woman so that she miscarries, no one is to be punished, though I fine will be levied. If she herself is injured, an eye for an eye applies. Evidently the foetus is not here legally considered to be a person.
In Numbers 5 (the law of jealousy) a man who suspects without evidence being available that his wife is unfaithful is told to take her to the priest, where she is to be given the water of bitterness. If she has been with another man, she will swell up and her thigh shall fall away. That is a strong indication of a miscarriage being induced, to me. Neither the man nor the priest are to be responsible should this occur, but the woman is to be punished for adultery.

To be honest, I am not sure of scripture's overall teaching on this issue. There seems to be ambiguity.

ReligiousTolerance.org on Abortion (thought this might be useful)

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« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2004, 06:23:08 PM »


I believe the Bible is somewhat ambiguous on the matter of whether a foetus in the womb is a person, and therefore on the issue of whether abortion is ok or not.


      Roll Eyes
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Reba
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2004, 11:50:30 AM »

It would interest me to know the view, on the abortion issue of the owner of this forum.

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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2004, 12:35:43 PM »

      I'm adopted, the result of an "affair." The Law in 1963 protected my right to exist, thank God. My birth mother considered an illegal abortion to cover up her affair but was afraid, thank God!

     Had I been conceived in 1983 instead of 1963 I would never have been born! I would have been murdered to cover up the sin of my birth mother.

     Pro Abortion people basicly deny my right to life. They wish my birth mother had the right to murder me just as women have the right to murder their babies today.

    How dare you deny me my right to life! The law protected my right to life then but that law is gone now.

    If you support abortion, you deny the right of life to those who were saved from abortion by the law that is now gone.

   You'd rather see me dead, unborn, so that my mother could have had the right to choose to murder me, and hide her affair. You may see abortion as some tissue and cells but for those of us who escaped being murdered in the womb, we become PEOPLE! I only here because the law in 63 protected me from murder.

    Look me in the eye and tell me my mother should have had the right to murder me, and then DUCK!

                                                           Paul2 Angry
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Reba
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2004, 12:43:44 PM »

I would be interested in knowing the view of the abortion issue of the owner of this forum.

Abortion is one of those areas where there is not any gray.  One is pro life or pro death.  Using pretty words such as ‘ pro choice’ does not change the facts. The words ‘pro choice’ are a frilly mask for a gross evil.  Those who are not pro life are pro death. As Christians do we have the strength to stand for life? Or do we pander to the masses to be accepted before man?

A business, or club, just about any group of people have views they adhere to many are broad wide paths that can be traveled by many. These entities are not in the same league as Christians. We have a big wonderful manual to live by.

When we say we are Christians and we embezzle from our employer that act reflects on other Christians like no other group. Let a pastor in town have an affair and all Christians are lumped in the same pot.  Not so with the manager of the store.

As a Christian posting on a forum that says it is a Christian forum it is my responsibility to understand if the forum is indeed Christian.  This is apposed to places like pogo or msn chat they do not claim Christianity.

Many view are espoused here they all are with in the boundaries of teaching of the Word. Forums were everyone is completely of like mind would be boring, very boring. Yet as Christians we have a core belief we understand must be held too, the Cross … resurrection ….for me abortion is also a core issue.  

I would be interested in knowing the view of the abortion issue of the owner of this forum.
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