Who Can Forgive Sins

[Hugh-MANN]

Note!

This is intended as a reply to a rebuttal made by JUDGE NOT to a posting made by JABEZ  "Was Jesus God?"

I'm new to this site and didn't see any way to respond in a more direct manner!


It seems strange responding to a rebuttal that was posted Jan 12, 2004, but with such a flagrant disregard for the TRUTH, I cannot in good conscience, sit back and remain silent!  As JUDGE  NOT seeks to prove the Divinity of Christ he states,

 

Another example – only God can forgive sins.  Jesus forgives sins.  Thus, again, Jesus is God.

[/b]
 

Sadly, this line of reasoning has more holes in it than a fishnet, for it is built upon the false assumption that only God can forgive sins,  therefore any conclusions built upon this false assumption will not be valid!

 

who can forgive sins but God only?


 The Bible does not say this, or even imply it!

 

But what about Mark 2:7

 

Mark 2:7 (King James Version)

Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies?

who can forgive sins but God only?
[/b]

 
If we would look at this in it's proper context,  in verse 6 we learn that it was certain Scribes who reasoned this within their hearts!  Jesus perceived these thoughts and responded appropriately, proving that He,  as the Son of man, hath power on earth to forgive sins!  See verse 10

 

 Consider Also,



Matthew 6:12 (King James Version)


 

And forgive us our debts,

as we forgive our debtors.

see also Luke 11:4



Of all that is contained within the "Lord's Prayer"  the only portion that the Lord places added emphasis on is


Matthew 6:14-15 (King James Version)

For if ye forgive men their trespasses,

your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses,

neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

[/b]
[/b][/b]





Matthew 18:35 (King James Version)
 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


Mark 11:25 (King James Version)
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.


Mark 11:26 (King James Version)
 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


Luke 17:4 (King James Version)
 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.



Matthew 16:19 (King James Version)


 

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

 and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:

and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 20:20-23 (King James Version)


 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


The remission or retention of sins are but specific applications of Binding and Loosing and it is something that is given to every member of the Body of Christ, and not just to a few Apostles, Bishops, and other types of Clergy Persons!


Conclusion,



I firmly believe in the Divinity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but to try and prove this this based on a faulty line of reasoning does not edify the Body of Christ or advance the Kingdom of God!



Your Brother in Christ



Hugh MANN

[nChrist]

Hello Brother Hugh,

I disagree completely with your interpretation and conclusions. Judge Not was correct - only God can forgive sins, and this is one of many reasonable ways of proving that Jesus Christ was and is God.

No, I do NOT have the power to forgive sins, and neither do you. I can announce or declare the conditions in which God will forgive sins. Example:  a person truly repents of their sins and accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour. On a lesser level, I can forgive someone who has committed a personal wrong against me. I don't have the time or desire to argue this with you.

[Hugh-MANN]

Hello Brother nChrist,



Thank you for your response, even if you choose to disagree with me!



That is one of the things which make our Country GREAT!  Anyone can express their OPINION  without having to worry about the GESTAPO beating down their door!



However, since you offered no Scriptures in justification of your response, I an forced to classify your response as nothing but a PERSONAL OPINION, and you know what they say about Opinions,

"OPINIONS are like BELLY BUTTONS,

EVERYBODY HAS ONE!"

[/b][/size][/size]


Quote nChrist



I don't have the time or desire to argue this with you.





My Response



God Forbid that a small difference of opinion should escalate into a full scale argument!



The Body of Christ is never edified when professing believers take the Sword of the Spirit and slice each other to ribbons!



We can Earnestly Contend for the Faith

without becoming CONTENTIOUS!



We can discuss our Differences in Doctrine

without being DOGMATIC!



With any difference of opinion,

LOGIC and REASON should prevail,

as we seek to Rightly Divide the Word of Truth!



PERSONAL OPINIONS are of little Value!



Is this not why this, and other Forums exist?







nChrist,



Since you have neither the time, nor the desire to argue this matter, I would suggest that you go back and review the responsibilities of being a King and a Priest unto God!  In the meantime, I hold fast to the integrity of what I have previously posted and will defend it with any who are willing to DISCUSS, (not Argue) the matter!



once again,  Thank You for Your Response!



Your Brother in Christ



Hugh MANN

[dan p]

Note!

This is intended as a reply to a rebuttal made by JUDGE NOT to a posting made by JABEZ  "Was Jesus God?"

I'm new to this site and didn't see any way to respond in a more direct manner!


It seems strange responding to a rebuttal that was posted Jan 12, 2004, but with such a flagrant disregard for the TRUTH, I cannot in good conscience, sit back and remain silent!  As JUDGE  NOT seeks to prove the Divinity of Christ he states,

 

Another example – only God can forgive sins.  Jesus forgives sins.  Thus, again, Jesus is God.

[/b]
 

Sadly, this line of reasoning has more holes in it than a fishnet, for it is built upon the false assumption that only God can forgive sins,  therefore any conclusions built upon this false assumption will not be valid!

 

who can forgive sins but God only?


 The Bible does not say this, or even imply it!

 

But what about Mark 2:7

 

Mark 2:7 (King James Version)

Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies?

who can forgive sins but God only?
[/b]

 
If we would look at this in it's proper context,  in verse 6 we learn that it was certain Scribes who reasoned this within their hearts!  Jesus perceived these thoughts and responded appropriately, proving that He,  as the Son of man, hath power on earth to forgive sins!  See verse 10

 

 Consider Also,



Matthew 6:12 (King James Version)


 

And forgive us our debts,

as we forgive our debtors.

see also Luke 11:4



Of all that is contained within the "Lord's Prayer"  the only portion that the Lord places added emphasis on is


Matthew 6:14-15 (King James Version)

For if ye forgive men their trespasses,

your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses,

neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

[/b]
[/b][/b]





Matthew 18:35 (King James Version)
 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.


Mark 11:25 (King James Version)
And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.


Mark 11:26 (King James Version)
 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


Luke 17:4 (King James Version)
 And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent; thou shalt forgive him.



Matthew 16:19 (King James Version)


 

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:

 and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:

and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

John 20:20-23 (King James Version)


 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.


The remission or retention of sins are but specific applications of Binding and Loosing and it is something that is given to every member of the Body of Christ, and not just to a few Apostles, Bishops, and other types of Clergy Persons!


Conclusion,



I firmly believe in the Divinity of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but to try and prove this this based on a faulty line of reasoning does not edify the Body of Christ or advance the Kingdom of God!



Your Brother in Christ



Hugh MANN

Hi and John 20:22   Jesus  breathed on  them , and  saith  unto them ,  RECEIVE ye HOLY  SPIRIT !

The  Greek text does  not say  RECEIVE  MYE  (  THE )  HOLY SPIRIT  and the word  in  BRACKETS  ( THE )  is  Not in the  Greek  text ,  period  !!

Just look for the word   THE  in STONG'S  DICTIONARY AND YOU WILL NOT FIND  IT !!

 With out the Greek   ARICLE  ( THE  )   IT means Jesus  breathed unto them the  POWER of HOLY  SPIRIT  to  REMIT  SINS !!

 In  verse 22  most of the Greek words   THIS / TOUTO , and  HOLY / HAGIOS  and  SPIRT/ PNEUMA  are all in the  ACCUSATIVE  CASE !!

 In verse 23 , the  Greek word   UNTO THEM / AUTOS  is in the  Greek  DATIVE  CASE !!

 And the  Greek word  THEY ARE  RETAINED   is in the  Greek  PERFECT  TENS ,  PASSIVE  , and in the  INDICATIVE  MODD  and this means it is a  FACT !!

dan p