Shirts

[onestarfisher]

Thanks Symphony, that was encouraging.

[C C]

As a general rule, people don't care what the Bible has to say unless they are drawn to it by the Holy Spirit.

Personally, I think that your T-shirts mis-represent me, and Christ.  If you study Christ's actions, you'll see that the only people he was harsh with were the Teachers of the Law which is what

YOU
have made yourself out to be.

[sincereheart]

As a general rule, people don't care what the Bible has to say unless they are drawn to it by the Holy Spirit.

Personally, I think that your T-shirts mis-represent me, and Christ.  If you study Christ's actions, you'll see that the only people he was harsh with were the Teachers of the Law which is what

YOU
have made yourself out to be.

Ummmm..... not to sidetrack the thread..... Do you not believe that homosexuality is a sin?  

[C C]

Clearly the Bible says its sin.  So, the question is that he who is without sin should cast the first stone.  None of us are without sin.

What One Star Fish then is doing is casting pearls before people who haven't had any desire to seek God.  That scripture is right below the scripture that says "by what measure you judge, so shall you be judged."  No one said we should run around and say its fine, but instead we should focus on doing what we know to be doing.  There's plenty of poor folks in the world that could use some feeding.  There's parts of our country that are more dangerous then third world country.  There's the Lord's work to do in this land, but we don't want to do it.  Instead we want to get on our high horse and write things on our T-shirts and run out and cast our pearls about to people that will tromple that underfoot.

I don't agree that it's helpful and have considered maybe its not Biblical either.

[nChrist]

As a general rule, people don't care what the Bible has to say unless they are drawn to it by the Holy Spirit.

Personally, I think that your T-shirts mis-represent me, and Christ.  If you study Christ's actions, you'll see that the only people he was harsh with were the Teachers of the Law which is what

YOU
have made yourself out to be.

Candice,

I would have to completely disagree. It is simply a stand for what is right and Biblical. There is a serious lack of that these days by Christians. In fact, that is a big problem that is responsible for the erosion of morals and the decline of our society. Everything is OK, and nobody stands up and says, NO! - This is not right! - This is sin! - This is against the teachings of the Holy Bible!  

The "everything goes" and silent Christians problem has resulted in a nation turning its back on Almighty God. There is a huge list of things that are not OK that have become almost the norm because Christians don't stand up and speak up. Evil is overtaking just about everything.

It is far past time for Christians to stand up and speak up. In fact, we ought to hold our brothers and sisters in Christ up and pray for them when they take a stand for good and God. Better yet, we should stand up and join them. There is nothing OK about the evil we have allowed into our schools, our homes, and our families. You could take a tiny example, like television, and see what the Holy Bible says. It's not being legalistic to say that most of what's on television is filth and should be turned off. Escalate the examples to dope, alcohol, lifestyles, and a host of other conditions that represent depravity, sin, destruction, and disobedience to God.

Candice, this is not legalistic. This is a Christian taking a stand on what is right and Biblical. We have arrived at a time in history where it is difficult to walk through our own homes without dealing with evil.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[AAAAmember]

I can't say I'm surprised, but I sure am (insert word here that conveys message of disappointment, disgust, and a general *sigh* of "what is this world coming to?").

First of all - why did you have to criticize your vet for wearing jewelry?  Christians wear cross necklaces all the time.  Out of curiosity, if you had a choice between a competent vet who wore a pentagram and an incompetent vet who was a Christian, which would you choose?  I think the health of your pet is more important than your vet's religion.  (Also - please don't insult techs.  They deserve a lot more respect than a lot of people give them.)

What I can't understand after reading this thread is why you all want to spend so much time on blatant hatred???  Why must you insult and mock and generally spew bitter hatred in order to bring people to your religion (which is supposedly loving)?  Wouldn't a simple "Jesus loves you/me/everyone" shirt do??  Why do you have to portray your religion as hateful and angry?  Because that's what all these sayings are implying.  

If a bunch of kids are playing in a park, and one child walks up to another and screams "I HATE PEOPLE WHO WEAR RED SHIRTS - YOU WILL BURN IN ETERNITY FOR WEARING THAT HORRIBLE COLOUR, YOU SICK, DISGUSTING PERSON!", will the child wearing the red shirt say, "Oh hey - these kids are great!   I think I'll join their group!"?  The answer is NO.  This kid will instantly be repelled by the other person's hatred and insults and walk away.  

Ever heard the saying "You get more bees with honey than with vinegar"?

Y'all are using vinegar.  You're not going to catch any bees, guys.  You're just going to push them further and further away.

But if you all wish to continue with your hateful t-shirt messages and horrible words, go ahead.  If you think that will bring people to Christ, I think you need to think again.

much love,
~AAAA

[Jesusinme]

Hi are you still looking for a slogan for your T-Shirt ? This scripture could be added to any saying that you would use. It is the Gospel and leads to salvation!
 


       How about....1st Corinthians 15:1-4

    This is lengthy for a T-shirt Slogan but the scripture could be included
 1)MOREOVER, brethren, I declare unto you the Gospel which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
 2) By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
 3) For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according  to the scriptures;
 4)And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures
 

[sincereheart]

Clearly the Bible says its sin.
Clearly it does. But should we just avoid that part?

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

No one said we should run around and say its fine,...
So we should neither condemn nor condone? Should we pretend it's not happening, either?

....but instead we should focus on doing what we know to be doing.
Which will be different for each person.
Romans 12:5,6a So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us,...

Instead we want to get on our high horse and write things on our T-shirts and run out and cast our pearls about to people that will tromple that underfoot.
Hmmmm..... couldn't the same have been said of say, Paul? Or anyone who ONLY spreads God's Word?
Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

[JudgeNot]

Yep,
The Bible is FULL - beginning to end - of folks being persecuted for speaking God's word.  From OT Prophets to NT Apostles to MD martyrs – the story is the same:  To ignore HIS word in favor of gaining favor from MAN is a sin I would rate among the most deadly.

Speak the Truth, Walk the Truth.  (Talk the talk, walk the walk.)  Anything less is a “fence sitter” – read how Jesus speaks out against the “lukewarm” in his letters to the seven churches in Revelation.  

‘nuff said….

[nChrist]

Amen Sincereheart and JudgeNot,

We live in evil and difficult times. I was just thinking about my grandchildren. Part of what they will or won't endure will be more up to their mom and dad, but I will have a hard time not saying something when the time comes. I actually think that my children expect me to and will not think that I'm meddling in their business. We have a pretty open and honest relationship, and I certainly respect their final decisions for their children, regardless of what I may think.

I will say something if their schools want to teach them that wrong is right. In fact, I would borrow money to send them to a Christian school if my children agreed. I feel fortunate knowing that my children will probably agree with everything moral or Biblical. It almost makes me cry to think about what children have to go through in some school systems.

It doesn't bother me at all for folks to laugh at me for being an old fashioned Bible believer.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Kristi Ann]

I am Very happy for you Symphony!

I will Pray for your success!!!!  


Blessings,  \o/

KristiAnn

[C C]

So, we should stop "Turning the other cheek"  We should stop "loving our neighbor"  We should stop "Doing unto others as we would have done unto us"  We should stop all this "Golden Rule" business, because they're sinners and they must be stoned!  If we don't become hateful and stomp them out then they'll take over the country!  Have none of you read the Book of Daniel.  God says, HE IS IN CONTROL.  If you don't believe your Bible when God over and over says He is in control, then maybe you should run out and stomp those sinners.  

It's the principle of the matter.  Spread the GOSPEL.  Paul wasn't out preaching the ten commandments.  He said he was all about Christ and Him crucified.  It is for the LOVE of Christ.  For God so LOVED the world that He gave His only Begotton son . . .  Let me tell you, if a homosexual turns from his sin it will be LOVE that makes him do it.  Not hate.  Have you ever even noticed that homosexuals attibute sex to love?  They need love.  Not hate.  They want love. Not hate.  Only love will change them.  So, how does hating help?

I'm not saying that condoning is in order.  I never said that.  

Preach the gospel through you actions.  When necesary  use words.  People get tired of words.

One thing that's a true way to interpret the Bible is to interpret the Bible by acting out its words in Your life.

Who cares what your interpretation of the Bible is if it's not creating a love in your heart that turns into actions in your life.

Now next time some Christian gets to be lucky enough to live next to a gay person, -- if they're not the type of Christian that would have Championed staying in the Upper room!!  Lots of "Upper Room" Christians, that huddle in masses and don't speak with the sinners, their neighbors. . . .

But suppose a Christian had a neighbor that was also gay, the T-Shirt would just tell the neighbor that their Christian neighbor hates him.

Anyway, I'm not disagreeing that certain things are wrong.  I'm just saying in its application I don't think it does any good to tell people to turn from sin without telling them to turn to God.  Usually if you can get a person to turn to God, that turn turns them from sin.  But turn from sin alone, there's nothing to turn to.  They need something to turn to.  Ask the Gay people themselves if your T-Shirt is going to make them turn to the Lord.

Then maybe you'll see my point.  Then maybe not.

Peace

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Candice,

I think that I know what you are trying to say, but I'm somewhat confused by the application of your examples. I don't think those t-shirts are going to say anything like "Let's stone the gays to death". If I remember correctly, most of the examples were very simple, like "Homosexuality Is Sin" and/or a Bible verse. Would that be making a true statement? Would that be hating or hurting anyone?

What if I wore a t-shirt that said "Pornography Is Sin", or any number of other examples. The same questions would apply. Dope and alcohol might be other examples. Our world is turning into a giant sewer. How long will it be before there is no decent place left to raise children. What if safe, clean, and Godly places ceased to exist? Would you wonder why?

Candice, I'm not trying to argue. I'm just trying to point out there is a price for saying nothing. Saying nothing also implies your agreement and acceptance of sin that will eventually claim members of your own family.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[sincereheart]

CC, You've gotten a lot mixed up. A whole lot. You make too many assumptions.

But it all boils down to this:

Let the Lord lead YOU to witness for Him however He chooses. Don't tell others that your ideas are the only way! God is not limited by what you think.


We are where we are today because too many didn't stand up for what was right. They turned a blind eye. They were afraid of hurting someone's feelings. They were afraid of being labeled. They wanted the world to like them. So by not saying anything, they've condoned the very things that God is against. "Using words" on a tee is not bombing an abortion clinic. It is not shooting an abortion doctor. It is not saying that homosexuality is an unforgiveable sin.

[sincereheart]

Confusing 'Tolerance' and 'Love'

Respecting others and embracing the multiplicity of humankind is, at its roots, a virtue. It engenders racial harmony. It enables men and women to appreciate one another's uniqueness. It even allows punk rockers and country music aficionados, Scream devotees and 102 Dalmatians fans to peacefully coexist. But that virtue can become a liability for teens unable to distinguish between diversity and perversity.

When we suggested to teens that a concert featuring an openly gay bond spewing pro-homosexual lyrics isn't exactly appropriate for Christian teens, we figured it wouldn't generate much controversy. We were wrong.

Amid a flurry of PC buzzwords, Becky scolded, "There is nothing wrong with opening with a gay band. It's great that they are open about their sexual preference. Being gay does not make them different in a bad way, or bad people. Maybe we need more gay bands to be open so then there won't be as much homophobia. I think we need to keep an open mind and respect others' preferences and style and even learn a little from them.

"A girl named Vickey stated, "I am really upset about your comment on homosexuality. You make it sound like it's a horrible thing. I thought that if you believed in Christ, you were supposed to love your neighbor and not judge people." Yet another parroted, "I think you should remember the verse about not judging others.

"Students of Scripture realize that the same Jesus who said, "Do not judge or you too will be judged" (Matt. 7:1) also commanded, "Stop judging by mere appearances and make a right judgment" (Jn. 7:24). In order to make a "right judgment," believers must judge. The reason this can seem confusing is that there are two meanings of judge. One means to condemn; the other means to evaluate.

While we are forbidden to condemn (that's God's job alone), we are required to evaluate. Without "judging" in this context, we'd be unable to discern the difference between the atrocities committed by Adolph Hitler and the humanitarian efforts conducted by Mother Teresa. Or Jesus' sacrificial death and Judas' suicidal hanging. But somehow, teens have gotten the idea that loving someone means never evaluating or criticizing his actions.

Speaking the truth in love – now that's real love. It's how Christ dealt with the woman caught in adultery (Jn. 8:1-11). He forgave her and told her to leave her life of sin. He didn't say, "I'm okay. You're okay. It's just an alternate lifestyle." But many teens ignore God's desire for us to lovingly confront sin. They instead pride themselves on being "open-minded," "tolerant" and "respectful" of immorality. This raises the question: How long will it take some youngsters to go from respecting sin to experimenting with it? "Tolerance" and "love" are two very different things—a truth young people must grasp. We're called to love all men in the name of Jesus, not ignore their debauchery in the name of diversity.

Sin is a big deal to God. So much so that He allowed Jesus to die on a cruel Roman cross to rescue us from its grip. Glossing over evil—whether our own behavior or something the entertainment media has produced—is to say in essence, "What You did is really of little value to me. God, my view of sin is different from Yours, and frankly I'm not that disturbed by it." Though it is of utmost importance that young people learn to reach out in love to everyone, it is equally vital that they not take this apathetic, tolerant approach to sin.


Taken with permission from Dare to Dig Deeper Series, copyright (c) 2001 by Focus on the Family. All rights reserved.
http://www.family.org/