Voting and the election process

[Claudius]

Voting is not cursing the ruler:
Exo 22:28  Thou shalt not revile the gods, nor curse the ruler of thy people.

However, in Acts, it's worded differently...
Act 23:5  Then said Paul, I wist not, brethren, that he was the high priest: for it is written, Thou shalt not speak evil of the ruler of thy people.

Is voting the equivalent of "speaking evil" against the ruler?

I don't believe so, but what about political mud-slinging?
Do you have the right to voice an opinion against any president (past or present?)

- now I know we're not under the law, but we are to respect God's commandments. What are your thoughts?

[Petro]

claudias,

Paul in the letter to the Christians at Rome, wrote what is found at Chapter 13.

The ruler of a nation. as any spiritual ruler including one whorules his own household, is Gods representative.

And any authority as they exist have been established by God, consequently, any who rebels against the authority is rebelling against God.

This sounds far fetched, in the lite of Romans 13, however an examination of these very matter, needs to be examined in the light of scripture.

If the ruler is placed their by God, then he is Gods representative, if not then he is not.

The matter that needs to resolved in each persons mind is;

Is speaking bad of ones ruler, the same as rebellion??

If it isn't, it surely is the begining of something that unless stopped will certainly lead to it.

What do you say Romans 13, teaches Gods people..?

Blessings,

Petro

[Claudius]

"Rom 13:1  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4  For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5  Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
Rom 13:6  For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
Rom 13:7  Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour. "

Ok, let me clarify my views:
Mudslinging: No.
The right to voice against any president: No.
Vote: Yes.

What I'm trying to get at is: how do you justify voting against an incumbent? How do you discuss issues in a republic or democracy if you desire to vote for another leader?
Any thoughts?

[JudgeNot]

What I'm trying to get at is: how do you justify voting against an incumbent? How do you discuss issues in a republic or democracy if you desire to vote for another leader?
Any thoughts?

I have a very “philosophical” answer – but nothing biblical.
In the USA “we the people” are the government.  We simply elect our spokesperson(s) not a “ruler”.  When we vote against an incumbent we are seeking a new spokesperson – we aren’t speaking out against ourselves – other than saying “Man – were we ever foolish making that person our spokesperson – let’s fire him and hire someone else.”

It seems pretty cut & dried for us Americans.  As for other forms of government – I can’t say.  Are Cubans sinning when they speak out against Fidel???  It is hard for me to comprehend – but as an American I’ve never faced that conundrum.  

[Reba]

Stating a fact  is not mudslinging.

To say T Jefferson had salves. Is simply a true statment.

To say B. Clinton has some form of sexual contact with THAT woman. Is simply a true statment.

To say the Democrate party supports abortion. Is simply a true statment.

To say R Nixon covered up after 'watergate'. Is simply a true statment.

We are placed by God where we live i FEEL we should be good citizens by law and customs. Law of the land and customs ALWAYS taking a back seat to His law and customs.

[unworthy servant]

Reba said "To say the Democrate party supports abortion. Is simply a true statment."

But when you leave out half the facts, how can the statement be true?  The implication is that the Republicans do not support abortion. Isn't it also true that the Republican party also supports abortion?  

[Claudius]

I don't think Reba was trying to slam democrats, after all she mentions Richard Nixon (a Republican) in the next line...

But to Reba, (I agree that stating facts is not mudslinging), what about people who make bold statements that may or may not be facts? As an example, what about people who say (and this is an example and not meant to start a big political debate) "Bush rushed into war not knowing there were weapons of mass destruction?"

(for those overheating right now: )
I for one, can't read the man's mind, and only know of the intelligence made public at the time. I hope he did what he believed was proper. There's an old saying "hindsight is twenty-twenty vision..."

The example was not meant as a political accusation; rather I see these types of statements as going against the will of God. I think political debates during an election should be more civilized (and not just from a philosophical view point). I think facts can and should be introduced and discussed.

Recently, there's been a host of ads saying, "I'm [fill-in-the-blank], and I approved this commercial." That's so we can say "you said it and approved the commercial!" Great. What about the mudslinging on the news?

So, what should be done to modify our form of government (in your opinion) to make it work better with the will of God?

Just thoughts...

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Claudius,

I think that the point has already been made about where you live, what the system of government is, and what constitutes the ruler. If you live in America, the President of the United States is a servant of the people. Everyone else who holds a public office is also a servant of the people. Our system of government guarantees the right of free speech to the boss, and the boss is the people. The laws are our laws, and they were written by our hired hands and servants. They perform the way we want them to, or we fire them.

There are laws to protect our servants while they fill the office we put them in, but those laws do not prohibit criticism. Our laws to protect our servants address the more obvious things like violence against our servants, threats against our servants, etc. The original concept of America was quite unique and still is in many respects. America was to be a nation where the people were ruled by Almighty God. If you wanted to make a military or political analogy of a chain of command, Almighty God is the King of Kings who can never be impeached, voted out of office, criticized, cursed, or disobeyed. The next in the military or political chain of command is the people, and the last are the servants and/or hirelings of the people.

This WAS America, but as a nation we are turning our backs on Almighty God, disobeying HIM, disrespecting HIS rule, and rebelling against HIS ways. America is deservedly more and more in decline and face the loss of HIS blessing if it continues. In fact, America may face HIS wrath if we don't turn from evil and yield to HIS will and purpose.

Some who wish to hasten our departure from Almighty God might wish to debate some of this. If so, they can look in the mirror and argue all they want.

Love In Christ,
Tom