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| | |-+  Abortion: Right or Wrong?
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Author Topic: Abortion: Right or Wrong?  (Read 17410 times)
nChrist
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« Reply #165 on: April 21, 2004, 12:18:56 AM »

Oklahoma Howdy to Broken,

I was there in the 50s and 60s. I certainly wouldn't claim to be a voice for Christians of that time. All I could tell you is what Christians I know talked about.

That was not a time of sophisticated medical procedures. Many women died in childbirth and many children were born in terrible condition, only to suffer and die a few days later. I remember Christians discussing c-sections and wondering if that was Biblical. Well, I am a c-section baby, and I would have killed my mother in childbirth if the doctor didn't know how to do a c-section. My mother and dad prayed about it and allowed the doctor to do the c-section. There wasn't much time to decide. If they had waited much longer, one or both of us would have died, and my mother had another child to take care of. The doctor told my parents that he would probably kill me if he tried to deliver me normally. He also told them my chances for living would not be good if they waited to make their decision.

Part of this is probably the reality of Christians in the 50s and 60s. They would not have called it abortion. They would have called it trying to save a life. Many places didn't have the doctor or technology to do a c-section. And those places that did have the technology, they still sometimes faced losing both the mother and the child.

Just two cents worth.

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« Reply #166 on: April 21, 2004, 12:28:22 AM »

That was not a time of sophisticated medical procedures. Many women died in childbirth and many children were born in terrible condition, only to suffer and die a few days later. I remember Christians discussing c-sections and wondering if that was Biblical. Well, I am a c-section baby, and I would have killed my mother in childbirth if the doctor didn't know how to do a c-section. My mother and dad prayed about it and allowed the doctor to do the c-section.

I was born by caesarean section too. Though sadly only after my two sisters had already died because the doctors had not figured out that that procedure was necessary.

Quote
Part of this is probably the reality of Christians in the 50s and 60s. They would not have called it abortion. They would have called it trying to save a life.

My reasons for supporting the legalisation of abortion are on much the same grounds as the people you mention. I have never advocated abortion on the grounds that a pregnancy is an "inconvenience", but as I have said (repeatedly) there are very few occasions when I feel an abortion can be morally justified. One of those is severe (and I have given a definition of just how severe I mean by that) disability, that the birth would kill the mother (it happens, occasionally), that the baby could not survive (don't usually bother, the body does a natural abortion then), or that serious harm is done to the mother either mentally or physically by the birth of that baby. Serious, not just because it wasn't wanted, not because it has something silly wrong like a cleft palate - those are not morally justifiable reasons. Those are the only ways in which you can get an abortion legally in any case, and in this case I agree with the law.
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« Reply #167 on: April 29, 2004, 12:59:46 PM »

I wish we lived in a world where people actually loved their neighbor.  Then when a woman found out she was pregnant, and she told her neighbor, the neighbor would be equally responsible for the care and concern of the un-expected pregnancy.  But in our country, people don't love their neighbor as themselves.  PERIOD.

I think the whole abortion issue would go away if every person who ever took a pro-life stand would suddenly take care of their neighbor the way they take care of themselves.  

THEN when a woman found out she was pregnant, we could justifiable say, "Your body may be your own, but your baby is my neighbor and I have to care for him or her" and in that case . . .

Not that we should take away people's freedom, but when people speek the language of love by their actions, the woman wanting an abortion would certainly understand their neighbor's care and concern about her baby.  She would understand it because she has experienced her neighbors care and concern about herself.  When a person lives out Christ's love then suddenly people begin to understand love, and they begin to accept the laws that make the love REAL.

Does anyone really have care and concern about their neighbor to this point?HuhHuhHuh?  To a point where the neighbor could understand your care and concern about her future unborn.

And if abortions happen, well, then maybe YOU, the neighbor are just as guilty of murder as the person feeling they need the abortion.

My big issue about the Pro-life Movement is that it's so busy telling other people what to do and not focusing on their own sin.

There is A HUGE SIN in ignoring the greatest commandment.  

Hello--is there anyone listening.  The greatest commandment isn't "thou shalt not kill"  the greatest commandment is love God and your neighbor.  But folks that like to look down their noses and feel self-righteous are excellent in pointing out the sin of others before they look at their own.

Save a life  Love Your neighbor.  Live out Christ's love in your neighborhood.
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« Reply #168 on: April 30, 2004, 10:43:40 AM »

This calls into question true love. Jesus said there is no greater love than a person laying down his life for another. Personally, I'm tired of the "me first" generation today. The Mother's rights are considered supreme even if it means getting rid of her child. Jesus said; "You have to lose your life in order to save it." Today's mothers sure don't want to do that! They would rather let their children die than to lose their own lives! True love, or selfishness?
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« Reply #169 on: April 30, 2004, 06:04:54 PM »

Abortion is wrong!  If you think abortion is right, then you are not a Christian in good standing with God!
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« Reply #170 on: April 30, 2004, 06:59:43 PM »

Yeah I don't understand how anyone can say murder is ever right.
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« Reply #171 on: April 30, 2004, 08:57:04 PM »

Yeah I don't understand how anyone can say murder is ever right.
Usually because they don't agree that it is murder.

Or, as broken has indicated, because they believe there occasionally exists extream circumstances where abortion is the least bad option.
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« Reply #172 on: April 30, 2004, 11:22:39 PM »

Such as the mother losing her life instead of her child? God forbid she put her child's life before her own! Mothers who do that would leave their children in a burning building rather than risk their lives to save them.
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« Reply #173 on: April 30, 2004, 11:29:49 PM »

ABSOLUTLY POSITIVELY  DEFINITLY  WRONG!   Angry

what right do we have to  take away a life before it isnt born
it is wrong cruel  morally and inhuman why would they make it legal  if your pregnant and your not ready or dont want the baby there is something called ADOPTION im sure that there are plenty of  couples out there who cant have children for one reason or another  and to be able to have a child and  just discard it like it was a piece of trash or waste that picture it breaks my heart  Cry to see those tiny little bodies  just thrown away like  it means nothing in a trash bag i dont understand how a person can do that it is alive its a person  just not fully developed but still  a person and a child of god  who ever came up with the idea of abortion is a horrible horibble person but the lord says that we cannot judge our fellow man so it is up to him  on what happens to those people  those poor poor children just thiniking about it makes me weep im 15 and if i got pregnant there is no way i would give that little life  up  that fact is :ABORTION IS MURDER   MURDER OF INNOCCENT CHILDREN WHO DIDNT EVEN ASK TO BE BORN  DONT TAKE AWAY THERE CHANCE FOR LIFE  TO LEARN ABOUT GOD AND HIS SACRIFICE  FOR US TO LIVE

 Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Sad
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« Reply #174 on: May 01, 2004, 12:42:10 AM »

 All life from conception to natural death belong to Him the creator of life and no one has a right to take that life.

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amen to  that  Smiley
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« Reply #175 on: May 01, 2004, 02:06:25 AM »

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DONT TAKE AWAY THERE CHANCE FOR LIFE  TO LEARN ABOUT GOD AND HIS SACRIFICE  FOR US TO LIVE

 Cry Cry Cry Cry Cry Sad

I'm confused about what you meant by this last statement.
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« Reply #176 on: May 01, 2004, 12:37:31 PM »

Did anyone go out to visit their neighbor today to see if their neighbor needed anything?  

All I'm saying is we've got a whole lot of loud talkers about what's right and what's wrong, but people don't go to see if their neighbor needs anything.

If you aren't there to see if your neighbor needs something, then technically, you're respsonsible for abortion.  All you loud talkers about how wrong abortion is need to go check on your neighbor to see if they need anything.

The reason no one cares about all the Christian talk about abortion is that Christians do alot of talking about everything else too.  Talk is cheap.  
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Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would include not finding your neighbor's biggest fault and then harping on it as if it were your mission.
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« Reply #177 on: May 01, 2004, 12:58:02 PM »

Such as the mother losing her life instead of her child? God forbid she put her child's life before her own! Mothers who do that would leave their children in a burning building rather than risk their lives to save them.

I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I have never met a woman who aborted because her life was in danger.
However, I could not honestly judge a woman who aborted on those grounds. I would not trade shoes with her for anything in this world.
I would think that a woman in that situation would have wanted the baby to begin with, then would have had to make that painful decision.

I am very much pro-life and that is the only gray area that I see in the whole issue.
I thank God that I have never been in that situation because I can't say for sure what I would do.
I know that I would start off trying to save both of us, but I can't say what I would do if it came down to a choice of saving the baby's life or my own.

All I can do for that woman is offer prayer and support.
If that makes me self-centered, then so be it.
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« Reply #178 on: May 01, 2004, 01:42:27 PM »

There were abortions in Jesus day and Jesus never mentioned abortion.  I HATE abortion.  Don't get me wrong.  If I see a baby bird without feathers fall out of a nest, I feel heart broken. I don't think I could go on living if I have to see an aborted baby every day.  But I feel that all the loud talkers about abortion are mostly hypocrites.  They don't check on their neighbor.  You know, if a woman knew that all she needed was God and that in Him she was complete, no matter what the circumstances of the pregnancy were, she  could enjoy the pregnancy and the birth and the child rearing.  If she knew that her neighbors cared about her and she didn't have to worry about making a good impression and making people think she had value.  You know, there are women out there that have the whole world believing that they don't have value.  If they feel they don't have value, then how are they going to put value on some little being growing inside themselves?  They can't.  So, what I see happening in so many cercumstances is that folks focus on the "do not kill" law to make them feel like they themselves have value.  Even the loud talkers about abortion are talking loud about abortion to feel like they themselves have value.  It's just so hypocritical all of it.  You think it's going to give you some extra value if you talk loud about anti-this or anti-that.   Cry

It doesn't solve the problem that the people that are struggling most with trying to be valued feel that they don't have value and then they don't attribute any value to what is growing inside of them.

Doctrines about the elect and the chosen few and the "us vs them" doctrines attribute value to certain groups.  And the people inside the gropus feel like they're all somebody special to that group.  It's the same behavior with Gangs.  Everybody wants to be part of something.  The people getting the abortions are struggling with the issues of the value of a human.

They don't understand that and all of the Christians that think they're getting some kind of higher value status by talking about Christianity only make the issue worse for the person that doesn't understand God's value on all of us.

If all we do is talk about laws and don't live out His love, it really makes no sense to folks that are struggling to get value.

You know, the sadest thing is that a whole lot of women out there let men have their way with their body because they're trying to feel valued.  It doesn't matter what they say or how much self-esteem they claim to have.  It's about feeling complete. If we don't teach the Gospel in it's completeness, but just focus on the laws and not the love, it leaves people incomplete and they think there's no value in the Gospel giving them value.  If they don't think there's value in the Gospel and they don't know for sure they themselves have inherent value, then how are they to value a thing that can't even speak.

I think if we want to be pro-life we need to live out His love and we need to start with our very next door neighbor.  Everybody, anyone who claims to care about life go visit your neighbor!
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Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you would include not finding your neighbor's biggest fault and then harping on it as if it were your mission.
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« Reply #179 on: May 01, 2004, 03:11:32 PM »

Abortion is muder, abortion is sin "Don't harm a woman and her unborn child"

There is verse describing it.

Abortion is the killing of the innocent, although born ito sin, they have not commited wrongs.
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