Does the Body of Christ have a Covenant ??

[dan p]

Hi nChrist , and I can only reply because the other thread would not allow me to !

You said that is I am speaking about two Covenants , that you agree !

 My question to you then is , Where does Paul ever say that the Godhead has a Covenant with the Body o9f Christ ?

 Will you use  1 Cor 11:25 ?

I already have and  OP  , on what came first Covenants or Dispensations ?

 What say you

[nChrist]

Hi nChrist , and I can only reply because the other thread would not allow me to !

You said that is I am speaking about two Covenants , that you agree !

 My question to you then is , Where does Paul ever say that the Godhead has a Covenant with the Body o9f Christ ?

 Will you use  1 Cor 11:25 ?

I already have and  OP  , on what came first Covenants or Dispensations ?

 What say you

Dan,

I'm not interested in arguing, especially about semantics and the strange way you put things. By the way, the other thread was temporarily locked while deciding if it was heresy or not. It is now open after it was decided you simply put things in a very strange way. Regardless, let me repeat, I'm not interested in arguing with you. Under the circumstances, I doubt that anyone else will be interested either. I guess you could argue with yourself.

Has anyone ever been saved by the Law? - Answer - NO - not under any covenant or dispensation! - End of Story.

[dan p]

Dan,

I'm not interested in arguing, especially about semantics and the strange way you put things. By the way, the other thread was temporarily locked while deciding if it was heresy or not. It is now open after it was decided you simply put things in a very strange way. Regardless, let me repeat, I'm not interested in arguing with you. Under the circumstances, I doubt that anyone else will be interested either. I guess you could argue with yourself.

Has anyone ever been saved by the Law? - Answer - NO - not under any covenant or dispensation! - End of Story.

 Hi nChrist , and Eph 2:12 says that we are " strangers from the Covenants of promise having no hope , and without God in the world  . To ,me , than no Covenants were ever given to the Gentiles .

 And you do not have to debate me even when I know that what I write is somewhat controverial  , even among Dispensationalist , but I know that I am not alone .  Salvation under the Law is a separate subject .

[Soldier4Christ]

Eph 2:12  That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13  But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

Again this is not a debate as if you wish to debate it then you are debating against scripture not me. Note that Eph 2:12 is spoken in the past tense and that in the following verse is given a but that changes that situation. Also note the following verses which explains it better.


Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17  And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[dan p]

[quote author=Pastor Roger l


Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
Gal 3:17  And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Gal 3:29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


[/quote

 Hi Pastor Roger , and no debate , ok , and here is a world for word literal translation of Gal 3:17 ,  And this I say , the Law , having come into existence after 4 hundred and 30 years , does not render void  ( the )  covenant having been established beforehand by God in Christ , so as to abolish the promise .

Most all see 2 subjects here ;  the Abrahamic Covenant  and the Law of Moses .

 To me , this verse states that the Covenant was confirmed before by God .  Was confirmed by God is the Greek verb  PROKUROO ,  and is used once in the New Testament .

It is in the Perfect Tense , Passive voice , showing that God did the establishing and the Verb tense suggests that God will still do this in the future after the Departure/Rapture of the Assembly .  This means to me that God is not finished with the Nation of Israel , as Covenant Theology teaches .

This Galatians passage to is not linked to a Covenant with the Body of Christ and does not trump Eph 2:12 , NOR contradict it .

[Soldier4Christ]

Dan, let me try to make this a little more clear so that perhaps you can understand it. Abraham was given a promise (covenant) that was based on faith not law. If you read the above verses and those throughout Romans and Galatians you will clearly see that through faith as soon as we belong to God that we are then heirs of that promise (covenant) through faith. Eph 2:12 is talking about those that were not a member of the Body as being "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" then as we see in Gal 3:16,17 and 29 that when we give ourselves to Christ that we then also become heirs to that same promise. Following are even more to add to that same confirmation.

Rom 4:16  Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Gal 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Gal 3:22  But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Eph 3:6  That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

[dan p]

Dan, let me try to make this a little more clear so that perhaps you can understand it. Abraham was given a promise (covenant) that was based on faith not law. If you read the above verses and those throughout Romans and Galatians you will clearly see that through faith as soon as we belong to God that we are then heirs of that promise (covenant) through faith.

Hi Pastor Roger , to start off , Eph 2:12 a literal translation ; " that at the time you were without Christ , being ALIENS from the commonwealth of Israel  and strangers from the Covenant/DIATHEKE  of the promise , having no hope and godless in the world .

 Covenant theology thinks that they are the only ones who understand this section of Ephesians .

 Under Eph 2:12 according to verse 12 ;

 #1 , Gentiles are without Christ which means "  Messiah " .

 #2 , ALIENS from the Commonwealth of Israel .  And Gentiles are  Aliens from Israel , with its government and citizenship  and possessed the which counted with God .

 #3 , Strangers from the Covenants of Promise ; A stranger is someone  OUTSIDE  of Israel .

 #4 , This word is also used in verse 19 , where , because of salvation in Christ ,  THEY  are not  STRANGERS  any longer but fellowcitizens and members of the household of God , another term for the Body of Christ , see Gall 6:10 .

 #5 , The word  " promise " contains the  SINGULAR   Article in Greek  ( Greek word  THE  " )  and should read  "  the promise " .

 #6 , This promise is the  PROMISE   of a Deliverer , a Messiah  who would rule over the whole earth through the Nation of Israel  , 2  Sam 7:4-16 .

 #7 , And as my Mentor says , this will the Grand  Climax  of God's promise to Isarel .

[duval]

Yes, the body of Christ definitely has a covenant.

duval

[dan p]

Yes, the body of Christ definitely has a covenant.

duval

 Hi duval  , just love your response , so where is a verse that Contradicts a positive verse in Eph 2:12 , that the Gentiles where strangers from the  COVENANTS  of promise .  It looks like you are out of gas !!!   dan p

[duval]

Dan I'm so happy you love my response.  I love it too.  I love it because it isn't mine.  Its from God.  Note what your verse in Eph.2:12 says  "---at that time--".  But you limit your post to the gentile yet entitle your topic "Does the body of Christ have a covenant".  Now just which one do you wish to talk about?  The gentile was not incliuded in the covenant of the OT (but only as a proselyte)  There was even a time when he was not incliuded in the bodiy of Christwhich is the church (or called out if you will).  But now  he is.  Yes, the bodiy of Christ has a covenant, the gentile included.

[dan p]

Dan I'm so happy you love my response.  I love it too.  I love it because it isn't mine.  Its from God.  Note what your verse in Eph.2:12 says  "---at that time--".  But you limit your post to the gentile yet entitle your topic "Does the body of Christ have a covenant".  Now just which one do you wish to talk about?  The gentile was not incliuded in the covenant of the OT (but only as a proselyte)  There was even a time when he was not incliuded in the bodiy of Christwhich is the church (or called out if you will).  But now  he is.  Yes, the bodiy of Christ has a covenant, the gentile included.

 Hi duval , and where is your verse that the Body of Christ was given a Covenant when Eph 2:11 ,12 , 13 why there is   NOT  A  COVENANT   with the Body of Christ .

 #1 , Since God has many Covenants with Israel and it is called the New Covenant , Abrahamic , Davidic  , and the Palestinian and given all to Israel !!!

 #2 , And if God had a Covenant with  the Gentiles , what is THE NAME  of this Covenant ??

 #3 , If , you say New Covenant , you have just DISPOSED   of the   JEWS  !!!

 #4 ,  And this is what Covenant Theology does !!!

 #5 , Or , if you say the New Covenant , than you become a PROSELYTE  and a Jew .

[duval]

Hi Dan

I did not say the body of Christ was given a covenant at the time of Eph.2

God bless
duval

[dan p]

Hi Dan

I did not say the body of Christ was given a covenant at the time of Eph.2

God bless
duval

 Hi duval and take it where you want , but lets see your verses , or start your onn  OP .  DAN P

[duval]

Hi Dan

The body of Christ and the covenant for both Jew and Gentile began on the 1st Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead in Jerusalem.

Clear enough for you to dig in to?

God bless you in your search for truth,
duval

[dan p]

Hi Dan

The body of Christ and the covenant for both Jew and Gentile began on the 1st Pentecost after the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead in Jerusalem.

Clear enough for you to dig in to?

God bless you in your search for truth,
duval

 Hi duval , and the verse is found where in Acts

 Good hunting , where you say that in Acts the Gentile's have a Covenant with God , for it contradicts  Eph 2:12  and how will you explain this