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Author Topic: What is Acts 15:11 saying ??  (Read 1048 times)
dan p
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« on: October 02, 2010, 07:09:03 PM »

Hi to all , and I am on many other forums where many believers say that there is only one Gospel  !

 The context is important , no matter where you are reading in the bible .

In Acts 15:1 , it is easy to see that the context is Jewish !

After Acts 15 , Peter fades from the scene , because , soon Israel will be set aside in Acts 28:28 .

 What is confusing to many , might be that Paul is not only Preaching to Jews , like in Acts 21:21 , and we see the that there are many Jews that are still
 zealous of the Law , Acts 21:20 .

And in verse 11 , Peter says , But we believe that through the Grace of the Lord  Jesus Christ  WE  ( The Jews  )   shall be saved , even as they

 (  and they means the Gentiles  )

 We see , that in Acts 15:10 , Peter is still talking about the Law that they still have to keep , but that one day we shall be saved by Grace without the Law and its  Repentance and Baptism and be saved by Grace only as the Gentiles are !

And this is what is happening today , that when Jews are saved today it is by Grace and lose their Identity in Christ and are no longer Jews , and this is the  ONLY  TIME  that Jews lose their Identity .

What say you ?

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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2010, 11:24:40 AM »

I will NOT debate you over this as salvation is not a debatable subject. It is too important to get it wrong.

Peter erred in the teaching of the gospel and knew better as was seen in Acts 10:28 but then returned to teaching the law as needs for salvation which Paul confronted him on later. Salvation has always been by grace and not by law for even Abraham was saved by faith and not by law, which law simply condemned and did not save. It was through hope in faith of things to come, those things that came through Jesus at the cross.

Eph 4:4  There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5  One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
Eph 4:6  One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


Rom 3:30  Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Gal 2:11  But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.
Gal 2:12  For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.
Gal 2:13  And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.
Gal 2:14  But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
Gal 2:15  We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles,
Gal 2:16  Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 3:14  That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 02:54:43 PM by Pastor Roger » Logged

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nChrist
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2010, 03:25:47 PM »

Dan,

If you are saying that there were two different Covenants, I agree.

If you are saying that there were or are two methods of Salvation, I disagree completely. Old Covenant or New, Salvation has always been by God's Grace through faith in Him. This is not a matter of argument or debate - just Bible Facts.

So, for what purpose are you trying to argue?

2 Timothy 2:14-16 KJV  Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers.  15  Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.  16  But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
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dan p
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2010, 06:30:11 PM »

Hi , and as I am Pauline , Gal 2:7 , we see 2 gospels here .

 I have never seen where Paul taught what Jesus taught in Matt 4:17 or what John taught in Matt 3:11 and you can tell I am not a Covenant theology believer as Dispensations came before Covenants , Eph 1:4 and 2 Tim 1:9 .
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BillyShope
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« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2010, 11:06:28 AM »

...Salvation has always been by God's Grace through faith in Him.
What kind of faith? Faith in His death, burial, and resurrection? The Mormons believe that. Even the JWs come close. Faith that He's the Son of God? Faith in His virgin birth? Faith that He even existed?

It's the form of faith which has changed dispensationally. Under the law, a Jew or Jewish proselyte was justified as he identified himself with the nation of Israel as the nation anticipated the appearance of the Messiah and the establishment of His earthly kingdom. (John 4:22b)

Now, there is neither Jew nor Greek. Justification occurs when the individual places his faith entirely in the crosswork.
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Soldier4Christ
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« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2010, 11:40:32 AM »

This is just exactly what Jesus preached about to Nicodemus, the scribes and Pharisees. It was misplaced faith. The faith in the Old Testament times as well as since is to be in the Saviour, the Messiah Himself and not in earthly things. It was in the hope of things to come. What those things were was not revealed until Jesus came and fulfilled the prophecies. It was by faith in God that Abraham was considered righteous, it was by faith in God that Noah was considered righteous, it was by Faith in God not the promises of earthly things.

Heb 11:13  These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

Joh 3:12  If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

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duval
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« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2010, 01:47:31 PM »

Hi Dan

The reason you have never seen where Paul preached what John did in Matt.3:11 or what Jesus preached im Matt.4:7 was because at that time the kingdom was "at hand".  When Paul wrote, the kingdom HAD come, please see Col.1:13 for example and notice the past tense.  The kingdom had come when Paul wrote.  In the context of Matt.3 no mention of the gospel.  In the context of Matt.4 no mention again until we get to vs. 17 and Jesus is is at another place telling the Galileans of some of the contents to be known in the gospel.  We all must keep in the mind that the Bible is its own best commentary.

God bless
duval
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duval
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« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2010, 02:41:52 PM »

Hi Dan

There are no TWO gospels in Gal.2:7 as though one kind of message was preached to the Jew and another to the Gentile.  Paul (as i noted to you previousliy) said there was only one gospel, anything more or less was perverted.  What you have here is that Peter continued with the Jew who had been circumcised under Moses and Paul to the Gentile who some Jewish brethren insisted they (Gentiles) be circumcised as well.  Thats all there is to that.  Thats what Acts 15 is all about.  Circumcision has nothing to do with salvation for either Jew or Gentile.

Gof bless,
duval
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dan p
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« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2010, 07:38:23 PM »

Hi Dan

There are no TWO gospels in Gal.2:7 as though one kind of message was preached to the Jew and another to the Gentile.  Paul (as i noted to you previousliy) said there was only one gospel, anything more or less was perverted.  What you have here is that Peter continued with the Jew who had been circumcised under Moses and Paul to the Gentile who some Jewish brethren insisted they (Gentiles) be circumcised as well.  Thats all there is to that.  Thats what Acts 15 is all about.  Circumcision has nothing to do with salvation for either Jew or Gentile.

Gof bless,
duval

 Hi duval , and there 2 gospels in Gal 2:7 , one to the Un-circumcision and one to the Circumcision , and all should no that they are different and Eph 2:11  is a good place and verse to know !   dan p
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duval
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« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2010, 08:14:14 PM »

Hi Dan

It remains true that Paul was speaking of one one gospel in Gal.1:6-12  With the definite article "the"before the word "gospel" WHAT does that suggest? One or many?   I say one.

Blessed assurance,
duval
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dan p
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« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2010, 02:14:56 PM »

Hi Dan

It remains true that Paul was speaking of one one gospel in Gal.1:6-12  With the definite article "the"before the word "gospel" WHAT does that suggest? One or many?   I say one.

Blessed assurance,
duval

 Hi duval  , and in Greek it is called the ARTICLE   for the definite article it is in English not Greek .

 The Greek  ARTICLE  "  THE  "   points to a  SPECIFIC  gospel and it is the  Gospel of the  Un-circumcision , aslo called the Dispensation of the grace of God ,  my gospel ,  the gospel of God , gospe3l of Christ  , gospel of peace  , gospel of H
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duval
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« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2010, 02:29:07 PM »

Hello Dan

Please forward your source for the definite article.

God bless
duval
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dan p
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2010, 03:14:06 PM »

Hello Dan

Please forward your source for the definite article.

God bless
duval

 Hi duval and in Greek it is called the ARTICLE  and not the definite article .

  Look at  A  MANUEL  GRAMMAR  of the Greek  New Testament  by DANA and  Mantey on page 135-153  and the  Article always point to a  SPECIFIC  THING  and if you have Strong's you can look up all Articles that are used in the bible and Bullinger has a book " THE  GIVER  AND HIS GIFTS "  LINKED  to the Holy  Spirit that is very good also .  dan p
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duval
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2010, 03:38:58 PM »

Thanks
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