Bride of Christ & the Mid-Tribulation Rapture

[Paul2]

              Revelation 12 De-coded

1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman (Israel) clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
   2: And she being with child (Jesus) cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
   3: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon (Satan), having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
   4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon (Satan) stood before the woman (Israel) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child (Jesus)as soon as it was born.
   5: And she (Israel) brought forth a man child (Jesus), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child (Jesus) was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
   6: And the woman (Israel) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
   7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Satan); and the dragon fought and his angels,
   8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
   9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
   10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
   11: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
   12: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
   13: And when the dragon (Satan)saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (Israel)which brought forth the man child (Jesus).
   14: And to the woman (Israel) were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, (3 1/2 years or 1260 days) from the face of the serpent (Satan).
   15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman (Israel), that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
   16: And the earth helped the woman (Israel), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon (Satan)cast out of his mouth.
   17: And the dragon (Satan)was wroth with the woman (Israel), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (Tribulation Saints), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

                                     The Pre-Trib. view by Paul2
                                      and it makes sense to!

[Paul2]

  Revelation 12 De-coded using Prophecyjax1's theory

     The woman can't be the Church because the Woman is Israel. the Man-Child can't be the Church because the Man-Child is Jesus.

     Look what happens when you make the Church the Woman and the Church the Man-Child.

1: And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman (Church) clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
   2: And she being with child (Church) cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
   3: And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon (Satan), having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
   4: And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon (Satan) stood before the woman (Church) which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child (Church)as soon as it was born.
   5: And she (Church) brought forth a man child (Church), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child (Church) was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
   6: And the woman (Church) fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
   7: And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon (Satan); and the dragon fought and his angels,
   8: And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
   9: And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
   10: And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
   11: And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
   12: Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
   13: And when the dragon (Satan)saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman (Church)which brought forth the man child (Church).
   14: And to the woman (Church) were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, (3 1/2 years or 1260 days) from the face of the serpent (Satan).
   15: And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman (Church), that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
   16: And the earth helped the woman (Church), and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon (Satan)cast out of his mouth.
   17: And the dragon (Satan)was wroth with the woman (Church), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed (let me guess, Church?), which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

     This above explaination is obviously wrong. Can you see it now? See what happens when you put the Church where it doesn't belong?
                                     The Pre-Trib. view by Paul2
                                      and it makes sense to!

[Early57]

Ladies and Gentlemen,  Weeeeeeee Have an up-Dated score.


Standing at the Mid-Trib corner, the one and lonesome Prophecyjax1, coming in with a mild 124 points

And over in the Pre-trib Corner is the tag team Paul2 and his sidekick Bronzesnake, with their towel man Early57. Coming in as a heavyweight, 405 points.


Who will conquer? Pre- or Mid?


Ladies and Gentlemen stay tuned for the exciting details, of course the Rapture could take place and this disscussion will have to be put on hold until eternity pass' away

[Paul2]

     Prophecyjax1,

     Your stuck on the last Trump of God. You assume its the seventh trumpet of Revelation but your assuming wrong. The trumpet of God is not blown by an angel or blown by God. God's voice is the trumpet. Don't believe me? well lets let Scripture tell the answer.

     Lets start here and see what we find:

Exodus 19:11   "And be ready against the third day: for the third day the LORD will come down in the sight of all the people upon mount Sinai.
   12: And thou shalt set bounds unto the people round about, saying, Take heed to yourselves, that ye go not up into the mount, or touch the border of it: whosoever toucheth the mount shall be surely put to death:
   13: There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

     Theres the trumpet of God for you but what is it? Lets go further:

 Exodus 19:16  "And it came to pass on the third day in the morning, that there were thunders and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the trumpet exceeding loud; so that all the people that was in the camp trembled.

     Theres "the voice" of God's trumpet and all the people trembled.

Exodus 19:17  "And Moses brought forth the people out of the camp to meet with God; and they stood at the nether part of the mount.
   18: And mount Sinai was altogether on a smoke, because the LORD descended upon it in fire: and the smoke thereof ascended as the smoke of a furnace, and the whole mount quaked greatly.
   19: And when the voice of the trumpet sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses spake, and God answered him by a voice.

     The trumpet is God's voice. Still not convinced? ok. lets see what Deuteronomy has to say about the same event.

   Deuteronomy  5:22  "These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me."
    23 And it came to pass, when ye heard the voice out of the midst of the darkness, (for the mountain did burn with fire,) that ye came near unto me, even all the heads of your tribes, and your elders;
    24 And ye said, Behold, the LORD our God hath shewed us his glory and his greatness, and we have heard his voice out of the midst of the fire: we have seen this day that God doth talk with man, and he liveth.  
    25 Now therefore why should we die? for this great fire will consume us: if we hear the voice of the LORD our God any more, then we shall die.  
    26 For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived?

     God's voice is that of a trumpet sounding. People were terrified at the trumpet like sound of God's voice. Want more evidence?

Revelation 1:10  " I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
   11: Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

    Thats the voice of Christ described how? As a GREAT VOICE, AS OF A TRUMPET! The trumpet of God is His voice!

        The Voice of Jesus heard by John in Revelation 1:10 is the SAME Voice by Jesus again in Revelation 4:1

Revelation 4:1  "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. [/b]

Revelation 1:10  " I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
   11: Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last


Revelation 4:1  "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.   [/b]

    Can you see it now?

Hint: Look for the words that are bold, red, and glowing!

                                      The Pre-Trib. View by Paul2

[prophecyjax1]

Paul,

It's obvious your not even reading my quotes. I say again, the man child is the BRIDE OF CHRIST, NOT THE CHURCH!
The Bride comes out of the church, and the foolish virgins get left behind in the church. (Matthew 25:1-13)

You can quote as many trumpets in the Bible as you want, but you still have not clarified where is the last trump in scripture.

I ask you one question, and hope for an answer. Where is the last trump of I Co 15:52 in he Bible. And don't say Matthew 24, cause everyone knows thats the second coming, unless your post-trib, which I am not.

Please tell us Paul exactly where is the last rump of I Cor 15:52 from scripture. I'm sure you can locate it, for you seem good at finding scriptures. Is it Rev 4:1 or Rev 1:10, you quoted two tere, which one is the last. Be conclusive before you answer. Rev 1:10 "as of a trumpet." Rev 4:1 "as it were of a trumpet." That's gotta be the weakest, most far-fetched argument for a pre-tribulation rapture I've ever heard, while at the same time, you clearly still have not EXACTLY idenitifed the EXACT scripture of where the last trump is.

Also Paul, you do seem to be avoiding II Thessalonians 2:1-5 about the fact that Paul said the Antichrist must first be revealed before the Rapture.

Good Luck.
Michael

[Bronzesnake]

prophecyjax...

You have avoided my question.
where do the elders get their crowns from, before the tribulation? The Rapture must have already taken place. All believers must be present for the Judgement Seat Of Jesus to have taken place, which is where the elders got their crowns.

As for II Thessalonians 2:1-5 about the fact that Paul said the Antichrist must first be revealed before the Rapture.

This is further proof for the pre-trib Rapture. Antichrist arrives at the begining of the final seven years. He cuts a false seven year peace deal at that time.

 Read the next verses...

 2Th 2:7   For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.  
   
    2Th 2:8   And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

 These two verses clairfy. First we are Raptured.. "taken out of the way" and immediately after that... "and then shall that Wicked be revealed"

 Here's further proof... This is a picture of the Rapture.

     Rev 4:1   After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.  
   
    Rev 4:2   And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne.

 I know that it's hard to judge a persons attitude when reading responses. I am making it clear right now so there's no mistake...I am not here with a belligerent attitude, or to attack anyone. I am trying to debate with respect toward all. At the same time, I will present my views as thoroughly as possible without being rude.

[Early57]

PJ1  Does a lot of dodging questions.  He still has not disscussed Jewish Customs and Traditions, But tried to replace my question with a Cathloic child who was 15 in 1830.


I must conclude that PJ1 has not studied enough to know the answer and that if we are correct and He answers these important questions he will find that he must take his book out of publication and that comes down to him losing money, but what does the word say about the Love of money and what depth of embarrisment would he have to suffer now for not fully finding the truth before putting his words in place of Gods words?

[Paul2]

    Phophecyjax1,

    You claim I've avoided 2 Thessalonians, when in fact, you've ignored my post on the subject, check the date below.

    Lets get some background. Paul was in Thessalonica for 3 weeks and started a Church there. He sent the Church a letter known as 1 Thessalonians. He revealed to the Thessalonians the Rapture. That was the focal point of the 1st. letter.

    Paul got word that the Thessalonians were being confused by false reports being sent to them claiming that they had missed the Rapture and had entered the Day of Christ, the wrath of the Lamb, the Great Tribulation.

    Paul sends another letter to clear up the situation.

 2 Thessalonians 2:1  "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2: That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.


     The Thessalonians were taught all about the Rapture and what was to follow. Verse 5 "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?" confirms this. They received a false report claiming they had entered the Wrath of the Lamb, which is also called the Day of Christ, which is also called the Great Tribulation. They knew the Rapture was to take place first and assumed they had missed the Rapture. They were told they had entered the Great Tribulation which is the last half of the 70th week of Daniel.

    2 Thessalonians 2:3  "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

     for that day shall not come What day shall not come? The Day of Christ, the Wrath of the Lamb, the Great tribulation. This is the day Paul is focusing on. Paul is focusing on the Day of the Wrath of the Lamb, Jesus Christ. Paul is not talking about the Rapture but the Wrath Of Christ.

     Paul is telling them that the wrath of Christ won't come until the man of sin be revealed (Antichrist). He's assuring them the wrath of the Lamb, Jesus Christ has not come yet.

2 Thessalonians 2:4  "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

      Now Paul tells them Antichrist is to be revealed. We know Antichrist signs the treaty with Israel to start the 70th week of Daniel, 1260 days later he is sitting in the temple claiming to be God. The Wrath of Christ can't begin until Antichrist enters the temple which he will do in the middle of the 70th week of Daniel.

2 Thessalonians 2:5  "Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?"

    Paul reminds them that he had explained this before, and to beware of false messages supposedly from Paul contradicting what he had already taught them. In other words "Believe what I taught you in the first place, don't believe reports that claim you missed the Rapture and The Day of the Lambs wrath has come, The Day of Wrath can't begin until Antichrist is revealed at the signing of the seven year treaty and in the temple claiming to be God 1260 days later.

2 Thessalonians 2:6  "And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
   7: For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.8: And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:


     Now Paul is telling them that Antichrist is restrained and not revealed until the restrainer is removed. The restrainer is the Holy Spirit indwelling the Church. We are restraining Antichrist with the presence of the Holy Spirit indwelling us. At the Rapture the Holy Spirit will stop indwelling men and begin a different ministry of indwelling the two witnesses. When the Church is Raptured, Antichrist will be revealed and not until the Rapture.

     The "falling away" can be taken two ways, back sliding, and removal. I plan on falling away from earth to meet the Lord in the air.

2 Thessalonians 2:9   "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
   10: And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
"

     Antichrist is part of Gods judgment. A part of the wrath of the Lamb is allowing Antichrist to perform miracles for 42 months, the last half of Daniels 70th week. When God is sending delusions to believe lies your in the wrath of the Lamb.

     Summing it up, the Rapture is the focal point of
1 Thessalonians. The day of Christ, wrath of the Lamb, Great Tribulation is the focal point of 2 Thessalonians.

                                           The Pre-Trib. View by Paul2
   

[Paul2]

    Prophecyjax1,

    Which part of MYSTERY don't you understand? If God had spelled out the Rapture with all the details in one verse there would be no way for his program to finish the way he wants.

    Everybody would know all about the Rapture and the Antichrist couldn't deceive the world after. Part of Gods wrath is allowing Antichrist to tell the Big Lie and God sends delusions so people believe the lie. Certain information was buried deep so only those who search for the truth will find the truth. Those who expect the truth of God's mysteries to be revealed in one sentance are not going to find the truth. God told John not to write what the seven thunders said because it would be to much information and there by alter God's Plan.

    Tell you what, write your book, if your qualified to write a book, I'll write a book debating your book. I'm not trying to get you to change your mind. I'm trying to show others that you don't have all the right answers.

     Who was speaking to John in Revelation 4:1? you claim an angel, I claim it was Jesus and have posted the proof from Revelation 1:10. You keep ignoring this question, WHY?

    You ignore everything you don't have answers for. I showed you scripture that proved god's voice is that of a trumpet. In Exodus people feared the voice of the trumpet which was God's voice. The Last Trump is God's last call, The trumpet will call "COME UP HERE! Because the trumpet is the voice of Christ. You may not see it, or you may refuse to see it because it proves you wrong but others reading this can see it.

     I'm beating a dead horse debating you, everybody can see it too.

                                       The Pre.Trib. View by Paul2

   
     

[OldTimer]

prophecyjax1, Michael, I will try to sum up my argument for a pre-tribulation rapture and show why you are wrong in proposing a mid-trib rapture starting at the sounding of the seventh angel.

I had mentioned the seven verses that say we will not experience God’s wrath, Rom 1:18, Rom 5:9, Rom 13:4, Eph 5:6, Col 3:6, 1Th 1:10, 1Th 5:9. You responded by mentioning only one of these verses, 1Th 5:9, in which you tried to twist the meaning of the word “appointed.”  I find it amazing you pick out one of these but fail to mention any of the others. The fact that there are seven of them should suggest something to you. Rom 5:9  “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.”


You claim the wrath of God starts with the sounding of the seventh angel. You are wrong. Rev 6: 16-17 “…For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?” This is after the opening of the sixth seal before any of the angels have sounded. In Rev 15:1  “And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.” This is the conclusion of God’s wrath starting with the sounding of the first angel, not the sounding of the seventh.

You really place you entire thesis on just two verses: 1 Cor. 15:52 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Let’s take the Corinthian verse first:
You equate the “last trump” to the sounding of the seventh angel but John does not call it that. He says “the seventh angel sounded.” That these are trumpets sounded by angels and not the trump of God mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:52 makes no impression on you. When I pointed out the verse in Rev. 4: 1 that the trump of God calls John up, you scoff and seem amused. That the 24 Elders, mentioned immediately after the “calling up” cast their crowns before Christ seems to pass you by. You are unable to see the Church in these 24 Elders. I have done a search of the book of Revelation. The trump of God mentioned in 4:1 is the last trump sounded by God in the Bible.
2 Thes 2:3 is a verse that receives various interpretations by commentators. I think it best to let the Bible do its own interpretation, but keep in mind that Paul was a Jew, trained in Jewish scholarship. The verses:
2Th 2:1  Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him
2Th 2:2  That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.  
2Th 2:3  Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

The explaining verses:

Gen 49:10  The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him [shall] the gathering of the people [be].

Isa 54:7  For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.

Jer 23:3  And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Jer 31:6  For there shall be a day, [that] the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.

Mic 4:2  And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31  And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


This “gathering” in 2 Thes. Appears to refer to the final coming of Christ when “all the tribes of the earth…shall see the Son of man coming…” It has nothing to do with the Rapture either pre, mid, or post tribulation.

Michael, I wonder if you are aware of where this concentration on a mid-trib rapture has led you? You have misstated the Word of God by claiming He is not able to come until certain other events take place. The Bible clearly teaches otherwise. You have a misunderstanding of the women in chapter 12 of Revelation. You seem to have a misunderstanding of many OT prophecies. While you are certainly free to think what you wish I hope you will not try to teach this false belief in your church or by publication in a book.

[prophecyjax1]

Friends,

Let me re-phrase the question for the third time.

WHERE EXACTLY IN the Book of REVELEATION is the last trump of I Cor 15:52?

Paul, II Thess 2:1-5. The key word is revealed. The Antichrist is truly not revealed until the "midst" of the seventh week. (Daniel 9:27.) Even if the "he" who hindereth is the Church, that still leaves the Church well into the tribulation.

Let's just deal with the last trump, and II Thess 2:1-8. We are going to get to the bottom of this. I'm asking a direct question! Where exactly in the book of Revelation is the last trump of I Cor 15:52 and I Thess 4:16. Please don't say the Lord forgot to place it there. ONE VERSE! WHERE? Not two, three, four or more verses, the EXACT VERSE! No confusion here, be specific and show the one exact verse where it is.

Michael

P.S. let's keep a good spirit and avoid any slander. Our salvation is not depending upon pre, mid, or post trib. Let's focus only on last trump and II Thess. Let's resolve any confusion.

[OldTimer]

prophecyjax1 asked: "WHERE EXACTLY IN the Book of REVELEATION is the last trump of I Cor 15:52?"

You have been told this over and Over and OVER!

Rev 4:1  After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

We can't help it if you don't believe it or can't acccept it. As I stated in my previous post...Do you read the post?...
The trump of God mentioned in Rev. 4:1 is the last trump sounded by God in the Bible.

[prophecyjax1]

Rev 4:1 is not the last trumpet in the book of Revelation, nor is it the rapture, that's silly. John 4:1 is talking to John, read the context.

Rev 8:13, 9:14, Rev 10:7, and finally the last trump of God in Rev 11:15.

Rev chap 11 is where the lst trumpet sounds, becasue it' the lat of the seven. Even if rev 4:1 was a trumpet, which it says  "as it were a trumpet," tere are still more trumpets to sound.

Anyhow, there is still no biblical evidence that prves a pre-trib theory.

Also II Thess 4:1-8 tells us Antichrit muct first be revealed.

Michael

[Bronzesnake]

prophecyjax...

And the elders got their crowns from?

[Early57]

Prophecyjax1

Should'nt you just change your name to I_Ignore_Questions2