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Author Topic: Bride of Christ & the Mid-Tribulation Rapture  (Read 22119 times)
Early57
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« Reply #120 on: May 21, 2003, 05:01:46 AM »

PJ1

When does the 7 day Marriage supper of the Lamb occur?



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Wreck N Sow
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« Reply #121 on: May 21, 2003, 07:13:14 AM »

Hi E57
Are we being ignored. Shunned?
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #122 on: May 21, 2003, 12:26:47 PM »

pj quote...
Quote
Where did you say the last trumpet is specifically?

OldTimer quote...
 You really place you entire thesis on just two verses: 1 Cor. 15:52 and 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Let’s take the Corinthian verse first:
You equate the “last trump” to the sounding of the seventh angel but John does not call it that. He says “the seventh angel sounded.” That these are trumpets sounded by angels and not the trump of God mentioned in 1 Cor. 15:52 makes no impression on you. When I pointed out the verse in Rev. 4: 1 that the trump of God calls John up, you scoff and seem amused. That the 24 Elders, mentioned immediately after the “calling up” cast their crowns before Christ seems to pass you by. You are unable to see the Church in these 24 Elders. I have done a search of the book of Revelation. The trump of God mentioned in 4:1 is the last trump sounded by God in the Bible.


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Early57
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« Reply #123 on: May 21, 2003, 08:47:42 PM »

Yes we are being ignored

But I have learned that a coward will go the other route to avoid a real battle.
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Wreck N Sow
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« Reply #124 on: May 22, 2003, 11:51:55 AM »

Hey E57
What are you talkin bout(When does the 7 day Marriage supper of the Lamb occur?)Dont think ive read about that.
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« Reply #125 on: May 22, 2003, 11:57:27 AM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi Jax- I aint goin away
Yea, the Day of the Lord will last but 1 year (according to scripture) There is only 1 bride.

JOEL 2 [1] Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand;[2] A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. [9] They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.[10] The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: [16] Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet. [28] And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;

Its on the Day of the Lord that bride will be let out the closet.
Theres the last trumpet to. The sun and moon darkened and so on and so on.....
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Early57
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« Reply #126 on: May 22, 2003, 10:40:44 PM »

Rev 19

Marriage of the Lamb

7   "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for  the marriage of the Lamb has come and His  bride has made herself ready."
8   It was given to her to clothe herself in  fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9   Then  he said to me, "Write, ' Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.'" And he said to me, " These are true words of God."




John 2


Miracle at Cana

1   On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there;
2   and both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding.


It is Jewish custom for the feast to last for 7 days / one week. The bride and the groom are together at this feast eating and enjoying the feast as all their friends and relatives bring gifts and everyone celebrates; In the middle of the week is the wedding and the couple resign to their private quarters as the celebration continues.   I think the feast will be in Heaven and the private quarters will be the New Jerusalem

In prophecy one week equals 7 years.  This custom of the Jews is not broken and if anyone recalls; Jesus, who just happens to be God and is still a Jewish man in the flesh will keep the feast / marriage supper of the Lamb.  And Jesus will give his bride gifts as is the custom


After the crucifixion, resurrection, and asending to heaven and then showing Himself again to his deciples Jesus pointed out that he is flesh and blood.

Luke 24
38   And He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts?
39   "See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have."
40   And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.




1 John 4


Testing the Spirits

1   Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
2   By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;
3   and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.


Jesus goes by the book and it includes the traditions and customs of his people; the Jewish people. not the Americans.  He did and still keeps their customs even the bride will not be any older then the groom.  33 1/2


He is Jesus, born a Jew; died a Jew; and resurrected a Jew.

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prophecyjax1
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« Reply #127 on: May 23, 2003, 08:48:06 AM »

Friends,

Rev 4:1 has nothing to do with the Rapture. That's one of the most extreme strectches I've ever heard yet, along with the weeding feast at Cana. That just goes to prove, that many are so desperate in attempting a prove a pre-trib threory, that any scriptures totally irrevelant to the second coming are applied. I'm sorry, but that's a very weal eschatological argument. Revelation chapter 4 is simply a revelation to John and for us, and has not a singe verse of implication or clarity regardig the catching away of the Bride.

However, the last trumpet of the seven trumpets in Rev 10:7 and Rev 11:15, has everything to do with the Rapture, along with Rev chap 12, and the two prophets being "caught up" in chapter 11. There can be no doubt from scripture that the Rapture is in Chap 11, and also from II Thess 2, that the revealng of the Antichrist must first come.

Eschatology rests upon properly dividing the word of truth and using all scripture from Gen to Rev.

Seems most have avoided II Thess 2:1-4 about the Antichrist has to be revealed FIRST, before the day of Christ and "our gathering together unto Him." I'd love to hear tat one explained away.

Yours,

Michael
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Early57
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« Reply #128 on: May 24, 2003, 07:17:28 AM »

Did Jesus keep the traditions and customs of His birth People?


If so; will Jesus continue to keep these Customs and traditions?


What does the word say and does opinion line up with the word?

You be the Judge.

John 14


Jesus Comforts His Disciples

1   "Do not let your heart be troubled;believe in God, believe also in Me.
2   "In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
3   "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.


What does this refer to in Jewish Custom?

The Jewish Groom after becoming engaged returns to His Fathers House and prepares a Room or Rooms for His Bride.  it could be as little as a leanto, if they cannot wait or even as big as the Groom"s family can afford; But it is the custom to go and prepare a place for the Bride.



Luke 2
48   When they saw Him, they were astonished; and His mother said to Him, "Son, why have You treated us this way? Behold, Your father and I have been anxiously looking for You."
49   And He said to them, "Why is it that you were looking for Me? Did you not know that I had to be in My Father's house?"
50   But they did not understand the statement which He had made to them.
 

It is the Jewish custom and even in other country's that the son / sons would follow in the occupations of their Fathers.


So why the confusion in vs. 50
50   But they did not understand the statement which He had made to them.


Jesus was not at home in the carpenter shop and He told them he needed to be about his Fathers business; although Joseph was not a priest, so why was Jesus in the temple and making this statement?  For us the answer is very clear, He's God.  For his earthly parents he should have been only in the Carpenter shop.  which Jesus made himself subject to until his Ministry years.  He kept the traditions.


What about us as Christians; Do we follow Jewish customs and traditions.


What about counting your blessings,  I've heard the statement and even have counted a few; but where does it come from.

COUNTING OUR BLESSINGS.
Quote
The common advice to count our blessings is followed literally by some of the most orthodox of Jews. Ari (Rabbi Isaac Luria, 16th cent.) said that each day a pious Jew should respond Amen to at least 90 blessings, say the Kedushah (Holy, holy, holy 39.), recite the Kaddish at least ten times and say at least 100 blessings.40. This is derived from that such a person is often referred to as a Tsadiq. The numeric values of the Hebrew letters of this word are 90, 4, 10 and 100. This ingenious explanation is rather spoiled by the commentary also pointing out that one can artificially increase one's tally of Amens by saying 15 of these blessings aloud to one another.41.

This rather quaint system of counting should not be allowed to put us off from recognising our blessings. In this age when most news media emphasise the evils and wrongs in the world around us, it is even more necessary than ever to remember our blessings.

(39.) Isaiah 6, 3. (40.) Quoted in commentary in Art Scroll Siddur p. 18. (41.) Ibid.


And what about that word "Amen"

Quote
WHY SAY AMEN?
The word (amen) is derived from the Hebrew root meaning 'confirm', support' or 'establish'. The word gradually became the standard response to a blessing. The custom is very ancient and was already a standard practice in the 7th century BCE as it is found frequently in Deuteronomy in ritual concerning curses.43. It also occurs in Psalms which were used for worship.44.

In this early period, most of the prayers were said by the Cohanim (priests) or the Levites and the congregation only expressed agreement. Later it became the standard response to blessings which began Blessed are You, Lord our God... However in the case of the Sh'ma a fuller response survives: Blessed be His glorious name for ever and ever.45.

The custom of saying Amen has remained in Judaism over the centuries but in most cases we do not say Amen to our own prayers, but only to those of someone else. In the Talmud Rabbi Jose said that a person who responds Amen has even greater merit than he who says the blessing.46. Ben Azzai said that if one said it rightly ones days would be prolonged47. Rabbi Josha ben Levi said ones sins would be forgiven and Resh Lakish said the gates of paradise would be opened for him.48. Some Talmudic Rabbis were inclined to exaggerate a little, but the sayings show how important the saying of Amen was to them. Rabbi Hanan ben Abba linked the saying of Amen with the verse Magnify the Lord with me and let us praise His holy name together49.

 
The use of Amen in the early centuries CE is attested by the account of the synagogue in Alexandria which was so large that they had to wave a scarf or turban so that the people at the back of the congregation knew when to say Amen50. The custom of prompting the congregation to say amen can still be found in our liturgy when it says (v'imru amen) And let us say Amen.

The Jewish custom of saying Amen was adopted by Christianity and also to a certain extent by Islam.

(43.) Deut. 27, 15-26. (44.) Psalms 41, 14; 72, 19; 89, 53; and 106, 48. (45.) Louis Ginzberg, JE vol 1, p. 491. (46.) Ber. 53b. (47.) Ber. 47a. (48.) Shab 119b. (49.) Ber. 45a. quoting Psalm 34, 4.(50.) Suk. 51b.

What about Jesus using the word amen?

He did more then use it.  The word is him and He is the word.


Revelation 3
13   He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
14   And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
15   I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.


Not only in just a few places does Jesus keep tradition and customs but in the instance of the use of the word Amen he goes even farther.

So if Jesus keeps the traditions and customs, what makes you think that he will change, since God does not change.  

PJ1
 you can quote from God's holy word, out of context, all day long and for the rest of your miniture life and it will not change one thing about God and who He is and that he keeps the traditions of the Jewish people and his many examples through out His word are lined up with Jewish tradition and there is the week for the marriage supper to be performed and it starts at the "Rature"  and ends at the "Return of Christ" with the saints following him.  

Seven years are needed for the feast and the bride needs to be present for the feast in order to be the bride.


I can go on and on, like the Bride waiting for the groom.

Or the Virgins waiting for the groom.

Or the lamps filled with oil.

All and more Jewish Customs and Traditions and You have the nerve to say that God has changed from who He is and what He does, by putting forth your little book and proclaiming your opinion as the truth and trying to keep score.  who are you to say that God Almighty will now change to line Himself up with you.  He is the straight edge and you will line up.  For it is declared that evey knee will bow and every tongue will confess...


AMEN
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« Reply #129 on: May 24, 2003, 09:38:46 AM »

No figurin, no reckoninging, no stories, just plain old scripture saying there aint no pre and there aint no mid

When shall we “ALL” be changed

1COR.15[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.[51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.[54] So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

JOB 14  [12] So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.[13] O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me![14] If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.

Job knew when we shall “ALL”  be changed. After the wrath has past and after the heavens be no more.
Yup, its the DAY OF THE LORD. In Isaiah 34 which is describing the “DAY OF THE LORD” the WORD says that at that time the heavens shall be dissolved.

I expect these scriptures to be ignored as was JOEL 2. Theres plenty more.
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« Reply #130 on: May 27, 2003, 08:28:14 AM »

Dear Friends,

It’s all too clear that certain things must first happen before Jesus will, or even can come again. In John 21:18-19, Jesus told Peter, “Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdest thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God.” Jesus Himself told Peter that he was going to grow old and die for Him by crucifixion (A.D. 67). This did away with an any-moment Rapture, and certainly Peter believed the Lord, and was not expecting an imminent return of Christ. In Acts 23:11, Jesus told the Apostle Paul, “Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.” This prediction the Lord gave Paul, left no doubt that there could not be an any-moment Rapture, for he must still testify in Rome. Just as the Lord gave these predictions, there are many predictions for us in this end-time, which clearly makes void, and null an any-moment Rapture. Jesus said “Elijah must first come,” and certain things must first transpire BEFORE His coming for His saints. So expect the Spirit of Elijah to be poured out upon God’s two prophets of Revelation 11:3-13, and other ministers in this end-time, because an imminent return of Christ cannot take place until these things occur.

James 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

That Spirit has a tendency to do things for 3˝ years, does it not? Now that’s a close!

Michael

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« Reply #131 on: May 27, 2003, 11:14:31 AM »

jax quote...
Quote
This did away with an any-moment Rapture, and certainly Peter believed the Lord, and was not expecting an imminent return of Christ. In Acts 23:11, Jesus told the Apostle Paul, “Be of good cheer, Paul: for as thou hast testified of me in Jerusalem, so must thou bear witness also at Rome.” This prediction the Lord gave Paul, left no doubt that there could not be an any-moment Rapture, for he must still testify in Rome. Just as the Lord gave these predictions, there are many predictions for us in this end-time, which clearly makes void, and null an any-moment Rapture. Jesus said “Elijah must first come,” and certain things must first transpire BEFORE His coming for His saints. So expect the Spirit of Elijah to be poured out upon God’s two prophets of Revelation 11:3-13, and other ministers in this end-time, because an imminent return of Christ cannot take place until these things occur.


 In order for me to believe you, I must believe that Jesus was wrong or lying when He said the following...
 Mar 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 Also, you contradict yourself. On one post you claim a "pre-wrath" rapture where we are raptured before the nasty stuff (described below) begins. Now you are telling us we must endure some nasty stuff before we get raptured.

 
    Rev 11:3   And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.  
   
    Rev 11:4   These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.  
   
    Rev 11:5   And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.  
   
    Rev 11:6   These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.  
   
    Rev 11:7  And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.  


 So what is it now? "mid-wrath"?

 The time of the rapture is unknown...
Mar 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

 However, the final return of Christ with his saints can be known, as it is described in the Bible that exactly seven years(Jewish Calendar) after the antichrist signs the false peace treaty
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« Reply #132 on: May 27, 2003, 07:11:44 PM »

Bronze,

No man knows the day or hour, but we do know the promixity.

Paul and Peter did not expect an imminent return, they had the Lord's word they had to do stuff first.

Jesus would not lie would he?

Michael
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« Reply #133 on: May 27, 2003, 11:55:47 PM »

Thats nothin Bronze
Jax chooses to ignore the scriptures i sent proving there is no mid or pre trib raptsure.
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #134 on: May 28, 2003, 12:37:31 AM »

Thats nothin Bronze
Jax chooses to ignore the scriptures i sent proving there is no mid or pre trib raptsure.

Ya, I hear you WNS. But I have to disagree with you my brother, there is most definitive evidence for a rapture in the Bible. The question is when. I happen to believe in a pre-trib rapture.
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