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123trying
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« on: August 15, 2009, 09:56:29 PM »

Here we go again. More Christians giving Christ and Christianity a bad name. I am a Christian. I know at least one thing: God gave us brains so He doesn't mind if we actually use them. Christians Unite has a news article saying Americans don't want 'bureaucracy and government boards' between them and their health care. We already HAVE bureaucracy and INSURANCE COMPANY boards between us and our health care.  INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE PAYING PEOPLE TO BE BUSSED AROUND FROM TOWN HALL TO TOWN HALL to try to drown out ANY healthcare reform discussion. It's very interesting how our country's national religious leaders will speak out on all sorts of national issues - except for healthcare for the sick. What do we mostly get from them on this issue? Silence. 70 million American citizens are either UNinsured because they cannot afford our country's immorally-priced health coverage - or they are UNDERinsured because of the amoral, for-profit, GODLESS Insurance corporations - or they have the money to pay for coverage but corporations tell them they are "un-insurable" because of pre-existing conditions. This is IMMORAL.  Almost 20,000 American citizens DIE every year because of this corrupt health system's immoral for-profit nature. And as an American citizen I consider it an absolute INSULT to my country to suggest that The United States of America is INCAPABLE of doing something that EVERY other industrialized western nation on the PLANET is capable of doing: covering their citizens' health needs. If all of THEM can do it, do not even begin to TRY to tell me that my country - The United States of America - of all nations - is the ONLY ONE incapable of it. That is an insult to the United States. To all Christians out there reading this message: seriously consider your responsibility as a Christian to be as informed as possible on such an important subject - NOT to be as political as possible on such a subject. (That means not just getting your 'news' from the Fox Fake 'news' channel and not just listening to radio show political talking heads.) Insurance corporations, etc., do not exist to help people get healthy. They exist only for ONE thing: pursuit of the 'almighty' DOLLAR. Health insurance corporations and pharmaceutical corporations DO NOT HAVE A SOUL. They literally do not have a soul. If they did, it would reflect only one thing: a dollar sign. That is literally their only concern and their only reason for existence. They will do just about ANYTHING to keep the status quo. They will do just about anything to keep things as heartbreakingly horrible as they are for so many millions of American citizens when it comes to health coverage. How can you prefer to leave Americans' health 'care' in such cold cruel hands rather than the hands of our democratically-elected representatives? That's right, every time you put down 'the government' or 'government boards' you are just putting down democracy and American citizens. In a democracy the government is just you and I. In a democracy 'the government' is just you and me - it is just who we have democratically chosen to represent us. I will be removing my Christians Unite News desktop item from my iGoogle homepage. Why? For one reason. Not because I disagree on this one issue but because Christians Unite gives Christians and Christianity a bad name by willfully promoting ignorance in its discussion boards policy. Did you read the policy when registering to be able to post here? It tells you that you do not have freedom of speech on their discussion boards. That is like communism. That is against the principals we believe in as Americans. And that is not a discussion board. I am not referring to the parts of the policy that say you can't swear, etc.  I agree with not being able to swear, etc. What gives Christians an ignorant image to non-Christians is the part of the policy, for example, that says you cannot 'defend' 'alternate lifestyles.' What that means is you are actually not allowed even to discuss them. Then this is not a discussion board. If there is one point of view that is not even allowed to be expressed, that is like communism and it is not only silly, but it hurts Christianity. If you are confidant that your point of view is valid and true, then you would have nothing against discussing it completely. Saying that you can't even discuss something does not help Christianity. It hurts Christianity. It says to non-Christians that a Christian's point of view cannot be defended and that Christians believe if they discuss their beliefs they will lose the argument. I don't know about your arguments and ideas, but I have confidence in mine and am not afraid to discuss them. I cannot even begin to tell you how many unsaved people I've heard that have been turned off to Christianity because some well-meaning Christians get upset when others just want to discuss a subject. We as Christians are not just supposed to hang around and talk with only other people who think just like us. Jesus did not do that. Some people got upset with Jesus for speaking with prostitutes and people with bad reputations like the tax collectors of the time. Didn't he say that it is the sick who need a physician? What is the point of keeping Christianity to yourself and telling others that they cannot even talk to you? You are supposed to openly, calmly discuss things with people that you think are wrong. Otherwise how can you ever change their minds? Pray over this for God's wisdom - while asking completely that GOD's will be done - and see if He doesn't show you the wisdom in my way of thinking on this. God bless.
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123trying
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« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2009, 10:11:28 PM »

I just now changed my mind about removing the Christians Unite item on my iGoogle desktop. I thought about my own argument about hearing what others have to say about things. Also, there are some things that I do agree with on the Christians Unite news service and it is always interesting to see what other people here are saying about things. But I completely stand by my comment that this is not a real discussion board - and that it hurts Christianity when people are told that they cannot even truly discuss something.
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nChrist
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« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2009, 10:44:20 PM »

I just now changed my mind about removing the Christians Unite item on my iGoogle desktop. I thought about my own argument about hearing what others have to say about things. Also, there are some things that I do agree with on the Christians Unite news service and it is always interesting to see what other people here are saying about things. But I completely stand by my comment that this is not a real discussion board - and that it hurts Christianity when people are told that they cannot even truly discuss something.

We completely disagree, and that's fine. The vast majority of Christians also disagree with you, and that's fine. We make no apology for having forum rules, and they are enforced. Your opinion of the forum rules means nothing. This is a privately paid for Christian family forum, and that includes children. The rules for use here are not the business of anyone except the person paying the bills and God. You aren't either, so it's none of your business. Stay or leave - we don't care. If you stay - YOU WILL OBEY the forum rules.

Just so that you will know, I think the proposed so-called healthcare reforms are fascist, communist, immoral garbage to establish TYRANNY over the people. People who want to remain free will never tolerate this fascist garbage, and that includes the rest of this administration's plans. It really doesn't matter how many times they repeat the same lies. Decent, freedom loving people will never tolerate it. Read the bill.
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« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2009, 10:51:03 PM »

I didn't read that first post because it is hard to read.

Amen Brother Tom.

Another thing, people can discuss anything here, we just don't give them a pulpit.
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« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2009, 11:38:37 PM »

I didn't read that first post because it is hard to read.

Amen Brother Tom.

Another thing, people can discuss anything here, we just don't give them a pulpit.

Hello Brother David,

The first post sounds like radical democrat talking points, so you didn't miss much. Reading the actual bill is much worse. The bill defies all common sense, logic, and morals in a free country. It's amazing to me that anyone thought something like this would actually be tolerated. It sounds like something North Korea's leaders might like. What irritates me the most is someone trying to paint this bill as good or moral.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 5:20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
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« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2009, 01:46:48 AM »

The first post sounds like radical democrat talking points, so you didn't miss much.

Very radical indeed. In fact it is very heavy to the side of communism.

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« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2009, 03:38:22 PM »

It does matter if this forum includes children. Thank you for mentioning that. I had thought it was adults discussing things. I do agree that if the forum includes children then it's different and then there are some things that should not be completely discussed. When you say 'if you stay you will obey the forum rules,' well of course. (I did not say that I wouldn't.) But when you say "stay or leave - we don't care" that was one of my points. Jesus did not tell others 'be saved or not saved - I don't care.' If we think someone is not saved, we have a duty as Christians - as Christ taught us - to try to save them. Christ did not teach us to just get angry at them and basically say 'we do not care if you are saved or not saved.' I re-read my post that I posted yesterday and I did not mean for it to come across that harshly. There is always a danger when a person mixes political discussion with religion. Christ did not get involved with the politics of his day. I am not saying Christians should not get informed and should not vote. All I mean is that it is not a good idea for Christians to basically say to one another 'my political viewpoint is more Christian than yours.' I recommend a book called 'God's Politics' by Jim Wallis. (The subtitle is 'Why the Right Gets it Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get it.') Jesus and Christianity do not need politics. This worldly human system of things needs politics. But Jesus and Christianity do not need politics in order to spread Christianity. The gospel is such a powerful message that it stands on its own. Politics can only dirty it. All I'm saying is there has to be a way for Christians to keep the 2 things (Christianity and politics) separate on some level. Politics is an important reality of life and I am not saying that we as Christians should have nothing at all to do with it. But politics will ALWAYS have an element of evil in it. Politicians from BOTH parties benefit from USING religion and USING religious people for their own agendas. But Christianity never benefits from using politics. Christianity does not need it. It stands on its own. We as Christians will ALWAYS have to choose at some point to sacrifice some level of worldly power in order to stand up for the purity and truth of the gospel. And we must always be willing sometimes to put aside our politics in order to reach and save the unsaved people. I think we would all agree that no political party is EVER about purity and truth. No politician is ever about purity and truth. Politics is the opposite of purity and truth. Neither the Republican nor the Democratic political party is pure or righteous. Both sides have some ridiculous viewpoints that they wind up defending just because of politics. We have to be able to separate our politics from our Christianity to SOME extent as Christians. I have plenty of loved ones who would agree with your way of thinking on the health-system/political thing and I still love them. They are precious people. They have their own mind and they have to follow their own conscience. I respect them just fine, too. But I also have to follow my own conscience and my own understanding of what Christ meant when he said to take care of the sick. I do not blame the sick person for getting sick. Jesus taught over and over that we are supposed to care for the sick. He never once preached that anyone is supposed to get rich at the expense of the sick. There is absolutely - and I repeat ABSOLUTELY - NOTHING 'communist' about Jesus's way of looking at that. And it bothers THE MAJORITY of Americans greatly when Insurance corporations do everything in their power to try to prevent people from being covered when they need it most - even when they have paid their premiums for years and years. Our health system is out of balance and has been in SERIOUS crisis for YEARS. We can disagree on the details of what to do to change it, but Americans want SOMETHING done to change it. Americans are tired of politicians taking the easy way for years and just not doing ANYTHING at all to TRY to fix it. I used to be a benefits administrator for a small company and I saw the double-digit inflation year after year in the premiums the company paid on the health benefit. For years and years now, inflation on health premiums has far out-paced general inflation to a ridiculous, unsustainable degree. It is UNSUSTAINABLE for small businesses. And small businesses are the backbone of our economy. I guarantee there are some people who are getting obscenely, immorally, unnecesarily rich off of sick people. All most Americans know is that they want their representatives to at least TRY something different and they want it NOW. We have ALL waited too long. And make no mistake - our system of government is corrupt and that's a huge part of the problem of nothing being done in the past to fix our health system. Both Democrat and Republican representatives are too influenced by money.
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nChrist
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« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2009, 03:56:55 PM »

Please don't try to put words in our mouths or suggest things that we didn't even imply. We are not here to please men - rather God. It's all very simple. One portion of Scripture puts everything into proper perspective.

Isaiah 5:1-30 KJV  Now will I sing to my wellbeloved a song of my beloved touching his vineyard. My wellbeloved hath a vineyard in a very fruitful hill:  2  And he fenced it, and gathered out the stones thereof, and planted it with the choicest vine, and built a tower in the midst of it, and also made a winepress therein: and he looked that it should bring forth grapes, and it brought forth wild grapes.  3  And now, O inhabitants of Jerusalem, and men of Judah, judge, I pray you, betwixt me and my vineyard.  4  What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes?  5  And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down:  6  And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it.  7  For the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah his pleasant plant: and he looked for judgment, but behold oppression; for righteousness, but behold a cry.  8  Woe unto them that join house to house, that lay field to field, till there be no place, that they may be placed alone in the midst of the earth!  9  In mine ears said the LORD of hosts, Of a truth many houses shall be desolate, even great and fair, without inhabitant.  10  Yea, ten acres of vineyard shall yield one bath, and the seed of an homer shall yield an ephah.  11  Woe unto them that rise up early in the morning, that they may follow strong drink; that continue until night, till wine inflame them!  12  And the harp, and the viol, the tabret, and pipe, and wine, are in their feasts: but they regard not the work of the LORD, neither consider the operation of his hands.  13  Therefore my people are gone into captivity, because they have no knowledge: and their honourable men are famished, and their multitude dried up with thirst.  14  Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.  15  And the mean man shall be brought down, and the mighty man shall be humbled, and the eyes of the lofty shall be humbled:  16  But the LORD of hosts shall be exalted in judgment, and God that is holy shall be sanctified in righteousness.  17  Then shall the lambs feed after their manner, and the waste places of the fat ones shall strangers eat.  18  Woe unto them that draw iniquity with cords of vanity, and sin as it were with a cart rope:  19  That say, Let him make speed, and hasten his work, that we may see it: and let the counsel of the Holy One of Israel draw nigh and come, that we may know it!  20  Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!  21  Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!  22  Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:  23  Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!  24  Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the LORD of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.  25  Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.  26  And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly:  27  None shall be weary nor stumble among them; none shall slumber nor sleep; neither shall the girdle of their loins be loosed, nor the latchet of their shoes be broken:  28  Whose arrows are sharp, and all their bows bent, their horses' hoofs shall be counted like flint, and their wheels like a whirlwind:  29  Their roaring shall be like a lion, they shall roar like young lions: yea, they shall roar, and lay hold of the prey, and shall carry it away safe, and none shall deliver it.  30  And in that day they shall roar against them like the roaring of the sea: and if one look unto the land, behold darkness and sorrow, and the light is darkened in the heavens thereof.


Those who call evil good and try to play the self-righteous game at the same time are known immediately. Skills in oration or writing don't help in the selling of evil.
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123trying
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« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2009, 05:04:34 PM »

You might have misunderstood. I was talking about politics and politicians and what they are like - not you. I was not putting you down. I did not think I even referred to you at all except the part about "stay or leave - we don't care." You do not answer or address anything at all that I said in my second post. Instead you are simply complaining that a Christian has "skills in oration or writing"? Unbelievable. Also, someone else who replied against my first post from yesterday admitted he did not even READ that post. He said it was difficult. If he has eyesight problems or dyslexia or something like that I don't know. If so, my heart goes out to him for that. But it means he put down my post without even reading it. God gave us a brain, so he does not mind if we use it. In fact, I think it's an insult to God if we don't. I do not apologize for being able to read or write. Of course we are here to please God. But when you say we are not here to please men, that does not mean it's okay for Christians to ignore men (mankind). It is NOT okay. That gives Christianity a bad name and does not spread Christianity or increase the numbers of Christians. And you ARE supposed to care about whether or not you do that. Non-Christians are watching us and we are to be the best example of Christianity that we know how to be without making Christianity look like it's only for simpletons. As Christians we are supposed to try our best to learn how to intelligently discuss something or not at all. Otherwise, if we shut other people out and never care what they think and they do not get saved because of it - God will hold us responsible. We are here as Christians to please God - AND to interact with other human beings so that we can win them to Christ. I have no patience whatsoever for other Christians who put up a wall to other people who do not think EXACTLY the way they do. If you put up walls and are not willing to even discuss things with other people, fine. Just do not claim that you put up your walls for the sake of Christ or in the name of Christ. Christ was not of this world but he most definitely was IN this world - doing the hard work of going out and speaking with people, trying to understand how they thought about things so that he would know how best to reach them. Christ did not wall himself off from the world. He went out to face the world and use SPEECH - to interact with people in order to reach them. He made no apologies for his oratory skills. I am tired of having to defend Christians to people who are not saved because they say too many Christians are uneducated, never read, and do not know how to discuss things with non-Christians. It is always sad for me to have to realize that they are correct about so many of my fellow Christians. It's as if some Christians think a Christian cannot be educated and actually read and write and be intelligent and discuss things and STILL read the Bible and be a Christian. I am here to tell you you can. Stop giving non-Christians ammunition against Christ. Where do you think all that talk comes from when they say too many Christians are back-woods hicks who are incapable of reading and carrying on an intelligent discussion? Non-Christians are only pointing out what they have observed - and I always have to defend Christians by saying no, we are not all like that. I am always and forever having to defend Christians to unsaved people. I have to tell them, please believe me, you can be a Christian and still use the mind God gave you and be educated. Thank you for the Bible verse except that it is totally off topic. If someone thinks it is too difficult to read and has not read this post, it is best not to bother replying to it. What's the point? If someone does not like something I said or takes it personally or doesn't know how to actually answer anything I said, why bother responding to it? I do not want to put words in anyone's mouth. If you think I did, please point it out. If I did, I will apologize. But I do not think I did at all. Do not say "it's all very simple" and then refuse to discuss something. I'm starting to get the idea there really isn't anyone on this discussion board except me who is actually here to "discuss" anything at all. If not, what's the point? Preaching to the choir? I'm already saved and I'm already a Christian. I thought this might be another chance to fellowship with other Christians in addition to my church friends. Maybe this is because this particular post-thread is under the category of 'politics?' You see? That's what politics does to people. It just polarizes and divides them for no good reason. Politics is part evil.
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« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2009, 05:23:46 PM »

Your posts are in fact difficult to read. You say that you can write yet you apparently don't know what a paragraph is. If you really want others to read what you have written then learn to use paragraphs to make it easier for them.

As for the rest of your posts the majority of them have all been about judging others that do not agree with you, making judgments of the Christianity of the people on this forum. The forum rules are enforced here. If you do not like the way things are done here then I suggest that you go somewhere that your garbage will be welcomed. If you continue in the direction that you are going you will be sent on your way.

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« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2009, 05:31:16 PM »

Read my previous post again. I didn't refer to anyone at all and posted a portion of Scripture. If I'm talking about you, I'll make it bluntly obvious.

The person who didn't read your post is on a ventilator.

I've read the entire so-called healthcare bill. I've already stated my opinion in other posts, so I'll simply say that Stalin would be proud of it. Trying to sell evil is one thing - forcing it is a different ballgame. This is still a free country for now. Stalin would have had a hard time trying to play-act being a Christian or anything closely associated with morals, and the same is true for lots of folks trying to sell or force evil. Again, I haven't mentioned anyone living, but I did mention a dead man who is probably a role model many are trying to emulate today.
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« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2009, 05:59:34 PM »

United Kingdom National Health Service Raises a 'Red Flag' about ObamaCare

WASHINGTON, Aug. 14 /Christian Newswire/ -- To understand what ObamaCare would mean to Americans, all we have to do is look to the United Kingdom's National Health Service, which provides universal healthcare. The news headlines in the past two years reveal long waits, rationed care, bureaucracy, and even deaths caused by the failed system. Member of Parliament Daniel Hannan recently said, "If you want to see what a government-run health care system looks like, you need not look any further than the countries like Canada or Great Britain. They already have in place so-called universal health care, and the results, well, they're not pretty."

A sample of recent headlines from the three leading British newspapers, the Times, the Daily Mail and the Telegraph, bear out Mr. Hannan's warning:

NHS targets 'may have lead to 1,200 deaths' in Mid-Staffordshire

11 serious errors a day in NHS surgery

War hero refused treatment by NHS

Patients forced to live in agony after NHS refuses to pay for painkilling injections

Patients with suspected cancer forced to wait so NHS targets can be hit

NHS dentists play as patients wait

Liberty Counsel has compiled a list that summarizes and links directly to 14 horror stories that appeared on the pages of these three major UK newspapers (www.LC.org). President Obama publically advocated a single-payer system when he spoke in 2003 before the AFL-CIO Conference on Civil, Human and Women's Rights. "I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care plan. Everybody in. Nobody out. A single-payer health care plan. Universal health care plan. That's what I'd like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we've got to take back the White House and we've got to take back the Senate and we've got to take back the House." He later said it may take 5, 10 or 15 years to get to a single-payer system, but he reiterated that is where he wants to drive America.

Mathew Staver, Founder of Liberty Counsel and Dean of Liberty University School of Law, commented: "A single-payer health care system run by Washington bureaucrats presents a serious threat to life and liberty. America should not swallow this poison pill. Such a system will be the death of America."
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« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2009, 08:12:20 PM »

I wasn't putting down your post, I was replying to the last sentence of your second post.
People who complain about not being able to discuss something, usually want a pulpit.
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« Reply #13 on: August 16, 2009, 10:32:59 PM »

I wasn't putting down your post, I was replying to the last sentence of your second post.
People who complain about not being able to discuss something, usually want a pulpit.

Brother David,

I think that you're right. In this case, someone wanted to sell something that most Christians already know is bad and wrong. Reading the entire so-called healthcare bill was sickening. Christians would never propose or approve of something like this. I was amazed with how cold and heartless this is. Getting a pulpit on this one would simply make their case worse. They lose ground every time they open their mouths. They just might be on the verge of getting the message that freedom loving people will never tolerate anything like their grand plans of domination and tyranny. Those who think that we might be dumb enough to swallow all of this want to explain it to us. It's all in the bill, and nothing needs to be explained. It was a RUSH and PUSH job that FAILED because the people found out about it and read the facts for themselves. Our so-called representatives didn't read the bill, but the people did.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 19:1-14 KJV  The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.  2  Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge.  3  There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard.  4  Their line is gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them hath he set a tabernacle for the sun,  5  Which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a strong man to run a race.  6  His going forth is from the end of the heaven, and his circuit unto the ends of it: and there is nothing hid from the heat thereof.  7  The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.  8  The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.  9  The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.  10  More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.  11  Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.  12  Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.  13  Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.  14  Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.
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123trying
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« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2009, 12:03:17 AM »

Thank you for responding. I had stopped using paragraphs on forums because one time when I did on another discussion board someone said I should condense it by removing paragraphs. But I agree with you about paragraphs so I'll go back to using them.

I certainly do not mean to judge anyone else's Christianity. I do not believe in doing that. I only meant to explain my way of seeing Christianity. This past year I went to an evening Bible-study thing at church and the pastor made an important point that will stay with me for the rest of my life. The pastor said we should not ever say to another person that we think they are not Christian enough. We can share with them how we see things but not put down their Christianity. There's a difference. I do believe in 'judge not lest ye be judged.'

I don't defend the current health legislation exactly precisely as it is. But at least one person on here should state the obvious which is our health system has been in crisis for years. There was an excellent documentary on tv maybe 5 or 6 years ago (I don't remember the title of it) about the American and Canadian health systems. It came to the conclusion that America and Canada should each take a look at what works in the other country's model - and adopt whatever works better than their own. The conclusion was that each system had something to learn from the other.

I guess you could sum up the Mid-Staffordshire hospital story with an associated article's headline that I saw that says 'Britain Tolerates a Broken Health Care System.' But the same headline could substitute the word 'America' and it would also be true. America tolerates a broken health care system. If we listen to much of the discussion going on in America about health systems in industrialized nations, it would seem that the U.S., Canada and England are the only countries in the world to talk about. Health care in France is more affordable than in our country, is of better quality than in our country, and is not rationed. France covers its citizens with basic medical care - and 98% of its citizens choose to supplement that with insurance that they buy from private companies. It is the best of both worlds.

Okay, so I'm all talked out about health systems. All I can say is people should always do their own research. Have a great week.  Smiley
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