antichrist - who is he - where is he now...

[Soldier4Christ]

Thank you, Brother Tom. You stated much of what I was trying to say and explained it so much better.

Looking at things in the Hebrew or Greek languages can explain a lot yet it can also cause a great deal more confusion. An example here is the Hebrew word for men, 'âdâm, can also be translated to English as "hypocrites." Therefore giving us "daughters of hypocrites." From this we can see one of the reasons why some people take this phrase to mean daughters of the lineage of Cain.

As Brother Tom briefly said of the word giant, the Hebrew word that is mostly translated as giants, nephı̂yl  nephil which is where we get the word Nephilim from, is more properly translated to mean bully or tyrant. This amplifies the use of the Hebrew word that was translated to read "mighty men," gibbôr  gibbôr, which also can be translated as not only warrior but also as tyrant.

[nChrist]

Brothers,

Let me add a little spice to the food - just a little. Let's concentrate on Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33. Look at Canaan and think about before the flood and after the flood. What did the spies of Israel learn about Canaan in Numbers 13:33, and what did they associate with what they learned? Canaan is also a significant geographical location. Just one of many interesting questions would be: was the lineage of the "Giants" mentioned in Genesis 6:4 destroyed in the flood? This is just one question regarding God's Judgments, Covenants, and Punishments.

Needless to say, the "Beast" and association of the "Beast" with the antichrist is even more difficult material with many variables. If it wasn't difficult, we would already know the identity of the antichrist. We can scratch the surface of the material with Daniel and Revelation.

Brothers, I'm not prepared to present details right now, but there's a big reason why I mentioned God's Judgments, God's Punishments, God's Covenants (conditional and unconditional), and genealogies. Frankly, right now, I'm trying to decide the best way to start. There probably isn't any way close to being easy. Many major considerations are woven together throughout the Holy Bible that can't be separated.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Isaiah 9:6 ASV  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

[bronzesnake]

Hello my friends.
I agree with both Roger and Tom that we must be careful in our renditions of what each specific "title" or "name" may be translated into from the origional language.
Having said that, are we to simply give up and not try and understand what these specific names, words mean?

We need to take the scriptures in context in order to make the proper identification, and we also need to search for corroborating scriptures, and we can also look to other sources.
For example...

Anak
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For other uses, see Anak (disambiguation).

According to the Book of Numbers, during the conquest of Canaan by the Israelites, Anak (spelt as both ענק and as הענק depending upon the reference) was a well known figure, and a forefather of the Anakites (aka. Anakim) who have been considered strong and tall descendants of the Nephilim (Numbers 13:33). The use of the word "nephilim" in this verse is possibly used to describe the height of the inhabitants as gigantic. The text states that Anak was a Rephaite (Deuteronomy 2:11) and a son of Arba (Joshua 15:13). Etymologically, Anak means [long] neck.

The sons of Anak are first mentioned in Numbers 13. The Israelite leader Moses sends twelve spies representing the twelve tribes of Israel to scout out the land of Canaan, and give a full report to the congregation. The spies enter from the Negev desert and journey northward through the Judaean hills until they arrive at the brook of Eshcol near Hebron, where reside Sheshai, Ahiman, and Talmai, the sons of Anak. After the scouts have explored the entire land, they bring back samples of the fruit of the land; most notably a gigantic cluster of grapes which requires two men to carry it on a pole between them. The scouts then report to Moses and the congregation, that "the land indeed is a land flowing with milk and honey," but ten of the twelve spies discourage the Israelites from even attempting to possess the land, for they reported that the men were taller and stronger than the Israelites, and moreover the sons of Anak dwell in the land, and that they felt like grasshoppers in their presence.

The Anakites are later mentioned briefly in the books of Deuteronomy, Joshua, and Judges. In Joshua, Caleb, one of the twelve spies sent by Moses into Canaan, later drove out the descendants of Anak — his three sons — from Hebron, also called Kirjath Arba.

Anak could be related to the Sumerian god Enki.[citation needed] Robert Graves, considering the relationship between the Anakites and Philistia (Joshua 11:21, Jeremiah 47:5), identifies the Anakim with Anax, the giant ruler of the Anactorians in Greek mythology.

References
^ Black, Matthew W. (2001). Peake's commentary on the Bible. Routledge. ISBN 0-4152-6355-7. 
^ "These Anakim seem to have come from Greece, as members of the Sea-peoples' confederation which caused the Egyptians so much trouble in the fourteenth century B.C." Robert Graves. The Greek Myths, 88.3. New York: 1955.
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anak"


I have given specific verse by verse explanations of what I believe the scriptures are telling us. Perhaps it would be helpful if others would do the same useing their proof and corroboration.

Take care brothers.
I am really looking forward to unlocking this mystery!

John

[bronzesnake]

"sons of God" appears in five verses from two books in the Old Testament. Two verses are found in Genesis 6. The other three are in the book of Job. From the book of Job, the context clearly indicates that "sons of God" are angelic beings.
 I understand that in the New Testament "sons of God" always refer to redeemed human beings.

Now, the argument I’m hearing from some sources is that “we know from the New testament that angels are asexual, and therefore these “sons of God” could not have been angels” however, when we take a close look at this, we see all is not what is may appear to be.


(Matthew 22:23-30) On that day some Sadducees (who say there is no resurrection) came to Him and questioned Him, saying, "Teacher, Moses said, 'IF A MAN DIES, HAVING NO CHILDREN, HIS BROTHER AS NEXT OF KIN SHALL MARRY HIS WIFE, AND RAISE UP AN OFFSPRING TO HIS BROTHER.' "Now there were seven brothers with us; and the first married and died, and having no offspring left his wife to his brother; so also the second, and the third, down to the seventh. "And last of all, the woman died. "In the resurrection therefore whose wife of the seven shall she be? For they all had her." But Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not understanding the Scriptures, or the power of God. "For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven.

We can extrapolate from those scriptures that “in the resurrection” men will no longer have “relations” with women. However it doesn’t say that. It says they shall not “marry” women, nor be given in “marriage” I agree, this most likely implies there will be no physical relations, however it in no way is emphatic that there “can” be no physical relations. I can’t extrapolate from these scriptures that evil angelic beings back in the time of Noah, and prior, did not commit evil unholy physical sins with the daughters of men.
I can deduce that “in the resurrection” both men and angels of Heaven are no to be “married” It doesn’t make any declarations about what happened prior to the “resurrection”

I’ll go even further…these scriptures are specifically identifying the angles, as angles of “Heaven” In Jude 3 . 6 , we see another group of angles, who abandoned their positions in Heaven, therefore by definition, they are no longer angels of Heaven, but were cursed to become “fallen stars” “demons” “evil spirits”

Jude 3 . 6  “And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home --these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.”

I could make the argument, that by omission, the scriptures in question actually could implicate “fallen angles” who did not keep their positions of authority, as being guilty of physical sin with daughters of men.

In the resurrection there will be no murder, no lies, no tears, no death, etc.
That does not imply these things never happened.

Take care my friends.
John

[HisDaughter]

I was just reading something on the subject of the antichrist earlier that I found to be quite interesting. Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist now Christian evangelist, says that the Greek symbol that is translated in the Bible as 666 is also seen as the Arabic character "Bismillah" which means "in the name of Allah."

It is also said that in certain areas where Sharia law is imposed that it is common practice to tattoo dhimmis that have accepted the Sharia dhimma (protection contract that allows dhimmis full freedom to own property, buy, sell etc.) with some identifier that they are under the protection of Allah.

 ???huh THIS is interesting....

[HisDaughter]

I just googled, yahoo'd, and bing'd a bunch of quran and 666's.  SCARY stuff!

[bronzesnake]

I just googled, yahoo'd, and bing'd a bunch of quran and 666's.  SCARY stuff!

Yes this is extremely interesting. Especially when the Koran says Mohammad believed the angel in the cave, who appeared to him was satan, and upon seeing this evil angel Mohammad ran away, only to return the next night where he was fooled into believing this evil angel was an angel of light and thereafter dictated the entire Koran to him.

Also, when we read scriptures regarding the execution method used during the wrath of God, beheading is listed, which we all know the Islamists love to employ.

yes, I believe this "false prophet" will be the Islamic "Mahdi" which is their saviour who can only come when the Muslims make war with the non Muslim world. This is the reason we have such bloodthirsty war being waged by these fundamentalist Islamists today.
Take a look at virtually every major battle going on in the world today, and you will find the Islamists fingerprint.

Take care sister.

John

[nChrist]

Brothers John and All,

I never get tired of studying the Holy Bible. I am working on some material to contribute to this discussion. I might also add there is already considerable material on the forum.

Please take the following in the way that I intend it:  lovingly as Brothers and Sisters in Christ. My specific study as an individual will be confined solely to the Holy Bible. So, I won't be looking at mythology, Greek or otherwise. Everyone else is obviously most welcome to include or exclude whatever they wish. Please don't take this in any critical way because that is not what I intended. I'm hoping that I can simply be a contributor to the discussion, and I do have some rough notes I'm working on now. I'm also looking for work that I've already done that relates to this discussion. I've gone through several different operating systems and two computers in the last year, so I'm not close to being organized with work I've already done. However, it might be fun and interesting to do it again with new perspectives. Right now, I'm thinking that I want to contribute some brief material on Revelation 13 and 17.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 1:16 ASV  For I am not ashamed of the gospel: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

[Soldier4Christ]

I was reading the update from Creation Research on their Creation News articles and a thought came to mind in regards to "after their kind" and then I came across the following verse while studying on the sins of the flesh.

1Co 15:39  All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1Co 15:40  There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

[bronzesnake]

Yes I agree that if we're going to get to the truth we must stick strictly with scriptures Tom.
Although I do find it very interesting when I see mythological names that have common biblical counterparts...still, I do take the point.

Looking forward to your posts Tom, and others.

John

[nChrist]

Brother John and All,

I've been somewhat slow in getting started, and the only excuse I have is that I haven't been feeling very strong. It's now 112 degrees here, and who knows what the heat index would be. We did have to get out a couple of times, and both my wife and I feel drained.

Please don't wait on me for the discussion, even though I do have a contribution and more in the works. As far as I'm concerned, this is just a pleasant discussion and exploration, rather than a debate. I'll primarily use the KJV because I think that most of you are using the KJV, but I will have some material from other translations - including my own. My health isn't good enough to get in a hurry, so I plan to go slowly and enjoy the study from everyone's perspective. It should be a given that parts of the discussion will have to be opinion only, but hopefully backed by various levels and layers of Scripture. That's my plan for me, but everyone is most welcome to take whatever approach you wish.

I'd like to start my part with what I think are some key Scriptures. I have many more in my notes, but this is where I started in my contribution to the discussion.

Scripture Portion #1

Daniel 7:3-7 KJV  And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.  4  The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.  5  And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.  6  After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.  7  After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Scripture Portion #2

Daniel 7:24 KJV  And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Scripture Portion #3

Revelation 13:1-10 KJV  And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.  2  And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.  3  And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.  4  And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?  5  And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.  6  And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.  7  And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.  8  And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.  9  If any man have an ear, let him hear.  10  He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

I'd first like to mention some very basic symbolism and information that I think is heavily supported in the Bible. I'll mention them in very general terms. Let's see if we all on the same sheet of music or whether we need to discuss the basics. The symbolism can be used to describe empires or individuals if one goes through the Bible in a study. One should also not look at the "beast" as singular.

A.  In my opinion, Daniel 7 definitely refers to the coming of the "Revived Roman Empire. The same would be true for various portions of Revelation and other parts of the Bible.

B.  Fragments of the ancient Roman Empire still exists today as separate kingdoms, but the Imperial form of government of the Revived Roman Empire isn't here yet (future). The "One head wounded to death" in my opinion is past tense - already happened - the the Imperial form of government of the Ancient Roman Empire.

C.  The "Revived Roman Empire" will have a form of 10 kingdoms, representative of Gentile Nations. It's my opinion that a "New Head" will arise to lead the "Revived Roman Empire", and he will be "the beast". This will not be the resurrection of the old emperor, rather a "Revived Roman Empire" with a new emperor. "The deadly wound that is healed" refers to the new leader of "world-domination class".

D.  The "Leopard" is representative of Greece, and it is "swift to conquer".

E.  The "Bear" is a type of Medo-Persia and "Powerful".

F.  The "Lion" is representative of Babylon and "greed".

G.  The new Ruling World Empire will combine all the evil features of preceding world empires and surpass them in power and evil because of the supernatural powers of Satan.

This is really a lot to chew on for a start. Let's see how much we agree on and how much we disagree on. I used some very broad language intentionally. I had thought about mentioning the second "beast" in Revelation 13:11-18, but that might be a little bit too much as a start. For now, just remember that the second "beast" is the "False Prophet" and could even be a Jew. Regardless, we would be talking about supernatural powers of Satan.

I apologize if I caused a delay. I'm slow these days because of health, and it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all if everyone went ahead without waiting for me. I tried to avoid terms that would cause confusion in semantics, but I don't know how well I did that. This is hard to do when trying to relate numerous Bible Sources that speak of the same things.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 3:21-28 ASV  But now apart from the law a righteousness of God hath been manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;  22  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction;  23  for all have sinned, and fall short of the glory of God;  24  being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:  25  whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood, to show his righteousness because of the passing over of the sins done aforetime, in the forbearance of God;  26  for the showing, I say, of his righteousness at this present season: that he might himself be just, and the justifier of him that hath faith in Jesus.  27  Where then is the glorying? It is excluded. By what manner of law? of works? Nay: but by a law of faith.  28  We reckon therefore that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

[bronzesnake]

Hello Tom.
Please don't worry about this discussion. Take care of yourself brother. I continue to pray for you each night my friend.

I am in agreeance with pretty much your entire post with one small exception.
I beleiev the reference to "The deadly wound that is healed" is actually in relation to a false death and resurrection of the antichrist, as he attempts to fool Jews from scriptures within the Old Testament which prophecy about the details of the "coming" Messiah.

Take care my brother.

John

[nChrist]

Hello Tom.
Please don't worry about this discussion. Take care of yourself brother. I continue to pray for you each night my friend.

I am in agreeance with pretty much your entire post with one small exception.
I beleiev the reference to "The deadly wound that is healed" is actually in relation to a false death and resurrection of the antichrist, as he attempts to fool Jews from scriptures within the Old Testament which prophecy about the details of the "coming" Messiah.

Take care my brother.

John

Hello Brother John,

I am studying, making notes, and preparing further contributions to this discussion.

I want to mention something first about Revelation 13:3 that will be common with many other portions of Scripture. There are numerous quite logical views, and not one of them is concrete. We are talking about Inspiration of God through the eyes of numerous Bible Writers, and we wouldn't just be looking at Daniel and Revelation. Let's go back now to Revelation 13:3, and I'll quickly tell you, "I don't know."

I want to give you a small sample that contains several views, and it must from ancient language alone. This is without mentioning the "Through the eyes of multiple Bible Writers and other variables. The following is from the very old and good Pulpit Commentary:

Pulpit Commentary Quote:

Ver. 3.  — And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed; and one of his heads as though it had been slain unto death; and his death stroke was healed. The writer wishes to express the coexistence of two mutually antagonistic qualities. The head had received a fatal wound, and yet the beast continued to exist and exert his power. There may be a contrast and a comparison intended between the Lamb, as it had been slain, worshipped by his adoring followers, and the beast, usurping the honour due to Christ, imitating him even in the respect of having been slain, and exacting homage from those who “wondered after the beast.” But the “head smitten unto death” must still possess some special significance of its own. What that is we are not plainly told; but it seems reasonable to refer it to the blow dealt to the power of Satan by the death and resurrection of Christ. It almost seemed at first as though the power of the world must succumb to the influence of the life and death of our Lord, and for a time great progress was made in the increase of the number of believers (cf. <440241>Acts 2:41, 47). But the power of the world was not yet destroyed; it continued to exist in spite of the seemingly fatal wound. Some see in this account a reference to the destruction of the Roman pagan empire, and the establishment of the Christian empire. Others believe the blow to be that administered by Michael, when Satan was ejected from heaven. Others refer the wounded head to different individuals; e.g. Nero. That one head is wounded out of the seven probably denotes the partial nature of the wound as visible to an observer. And all the world wondered after the beast ; the whole earth wondered after the beast. The pregnant construction. That earth, for which the advent of the dragon meant woe ( <661212>Revelation 12:12), wondered at, and followed after the beast. The sense of earth must here be restricted to the followers of the world, as opposed to the followers of God.

It's also true in the study that one must many times make a distinction between the empire and the beast, all the while knowing that Satan is the power behind the empire. One needs to view many portions of Scripture from two perspectives:  1) The empire and the leader joined;  2) The empire and the leader separated. Nothing can be simplified with these very complex portions of Scripture and how they are woven together by Multiple Prophets. The next two major concerns involves separating what only pertains to Israel from what only pertains to the Church Which Is The Body of Christ.

Brother, I would repeat again that I don't think there are any concrete answers for many questions, but I know there is a big benefit in studying the material. One can't do a study of this type without receiving a blessing on many other issues - The Promises of God and His Covenants being at the top of the list. I am definitely receiving a blessing from doing this study, and I'm glad that we're doing it. Maybe it will make us more anxious for His Glorious Appearance, and this is a good thing.

Love In Christ,
Tom