Hyper deception, in the visible church...

[ollie]

Since I became a Christian many years ago, I have always held to the belief, that Billy Graham was an Evangelical Minister of Gods Word,  raised up by  Him, to proclaim the truth of Gods word to the dieing massess, and he has so far as I am able to determine.

And, ever since I learned he along with several other well known bible scholars, entered into the Evangelicals and Catholics Together Declaration in March 1993 (thereabouts) I have wondered  what his motivation for this really was.

I didn't see, anything wrong with joining hands with, people of other beliefs, to combat immorality, and evil, unfortunately the document failed to define the words upon which the basis for this declaration was founded on, instead of it being a moral and dignity matter, it was based on common convictions of the Christian faith and mission.

And since faith must always be founded on the words the bible defines, it should have been made very clear these definitions were agreed to by all signatoriers.
Well, this is a secondary issue in as much as this post is concerned.

While discussing this with a friend he actually had the quote which is attributed to Mr. Graham, I wrote verbatim, ref source included, his belief herein is different from the stand point of what I understand to be the teaching of Gods word.
In an interview by McCalls, article entitled "I Can't Play God Any More"; January issue 1978, Pg. 156,

Mr. Graham is quoted in his own words;

"I used to believe that pagans in far-off countries were lost-were going to hell if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them, I no longer believe that  I believe that thhere are other ways of recognizing the existence of God-through nature, for instance-plenty of other opportunities, therfore, of saying 'yes' to God."

If I have not quoted this right, and someone can correct it, please feel free to do so.

How does this statement, square up with the following verse;

Rom 10
13  For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
14  How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
15  And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
17  So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Again,
Mat 24
[color]Take heed that no man deceive you.[/color]
 
Any thoughts??


Blessings,
Petro

The scripture you quote would certainly refute the thoughts of the quote attributed to Mr. Graham.
I am not familiar with this quote and would not know if it is correct.
As much as Mr Graham travels and preaches Christ, it could be a misquote, as it seems to infer a change in his thought process
Mr Graham at times is scriptural and at times is unscriptural.
However He is an evangelist and this connotates go and preach the good news, not let people find God through nature or pagan ways.

[John the Baptist]

John here:
Yet, Petro's thought perhaps was related to the full 'commission' of Matt. 28:19-20?

Any way, are not all postings just that, Posts?
 
Verse 20 ibide. Christ Commands, "teaching them to OBSERVE ALL THINGS WHATSOEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU.."

And any minister that is called of Christ knows this! See also Rom. 8:14. Not all can be, 'led'. The Words of Quench & Grieve the Holy Spirit are not for the un/believers only. If one thinks so, just read the 'world news' that you are not hearing in the denominations! No doubt most of today's 'c'hristian folk would approve of Korah & crew in Numbers 16:3 statement that..
"... seeing ALL THE CONGREGATION ARE HOLY, EVERY ONE OF THEM, AND THE LORD IS AMONG THEM". (was, & is He?)

Was He is the question? Go see! Yet after [GOD] destroyed these, the ones that were left said, ..."YE HAVE KILLED THE PEOPLE OF THE LORD".   (sounds like the 'leaven' 'of Hyper deception' from satan had reached most, huh?)

And Eccl. 1:9-10 & Eccl. 3:15 finds VERY few [WORKING]Believers of God's WORD. But the 'repeat' history is alive & well. Remenber what Graham's denomination teach. And was not Korah correct in telling these ones that by offering the daily 'Lamb' sacrifice in faith (belief) that they were in faith & belief,  SECURE?

(compare Rom. 8:1 for 'once saved always saved')

Or was God telling Cain a 'fable' in Gen. 4:7?  "If thou DOEST well, SHALT THOU NOT BE ACCEPTED?" PERFECT! (you know the fruit & lamb offering test)

Notice these below ones logic also: Ask yourself if this has grown in unity?

-From the -The Montgomery Advertiser, Sept 12, 1987-

Heads of American Protestant and Eastern Orthodox churches who were meeting with Pope John Paul 11 on Friday hailed their first, broadly representaive discussion as a landmark on the road to greater UNITY .... The Rev. Donald Jones, a United Methodist and chairman of the University of South Carolina religous studies department, termed it "the most important ecumenical meeting of the century" ... The Rev. Paul A. Crow Jr. of Indianapolis, ecumenical officer of the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) called it a "new day in ecumenism" OPENING a furture in which God "is drawing us back together".

I capped the word of UNITY & OPENING.
But, most call this the work of God, huh? Like Korah's statement, "GOD IS AMONG US!" (just before God slaughtered them)

One more? In 1990 a little more up to date. We see what amounts to the Abomination of Desolation, 'of one standing in the Holy Place' as Seventh-day Adventist [in bottom line] teach. (as Christ states in Matt. 24:15)  

The Seventh-day Adventist denomination has an accepted prophetess in their denomination. (long deceased) Her writings, which are many, are called 'testimonies for the church'. In her writings it states that the Popes are the man of sin. And that her (Catholics) Priest's [are] the 'reprensentatives'  of Satan. Remember that this is their documented belief. (see Early writtings pgs. 213-14, 221-2 for priest's and  their No. 7 Bible Commentary for the popes, pg. 910)

This my friends is the [HEART] of what they 'still' call their 'THREE ANGELS message's of Rev. 14:6-10. And all of their church's have a sign with three Angels flying on then on their church directory boards. After reading on? CONSIDER Heb. 6:6
& 1 Peter 4:17.

So what did they do? In their 1990 General Conference Session held in Indiana USA, where surely the spiritual CHRIST HIMSELF would be there in the pulpit? behold! who do we see addressing this WORLD MEETING of the Leadership of the World Seventh-day Adventist Denomination? A Catholic priest!
Remember now? satans agent.

Now: this to is documented FACTS from their church paper, and also seen in the Worlds News.

But here is the question of an ABOMINATION THAT MAKES A DENOMINATION DESOLATE. (Christ put out! see Joshua 7:12's last part of verse or Matt. 23:38's first history) Could any 'true believer' that REALLY BELIEVES in the Adventist's 3 Angels messages think that, for even one second, that CHRIST & THE POPES REPRESENTATIVE (agent of satan) were their in that meeting, and, hand in hand in UNITY?

Bottom line: Rev. 18:4 speaks to [[me]] personally! And there is no way that 'i' could be 'yoked' together with [any of these the above] in membership! And then support it in tithes & offerings? I read about ROBBING GOD in Mal. 4. Well, for 'me' to support any of this stuff, would find me supporting the very ones of Rev. 3:9 & BEING A PARTAKER of Rev. 18:4!

And the 'thread' asks: Re: Hyper deception, in the visible church...

In closing: ALL OF THE ABOVE DENOMINATION'S HAVE BEEN SHAKEN OUT! What is INTERESTING though, is the fact that THEY HAVE ALL STAYED PUT! Did you catch that?? Israel of OLD HAD A FALLING AWAY, (SHAKING) BUT WHO LEFT WHOM?? See Matt. 25:1 & verse 6---OUT to meet Him!, Why? *MIDNIGHT CRY*, not 666 yet)

---John
******

The scripture you quote would certainly refute the thoughts of the quote attributed to Mr. Graham.
I am not familiar with this quote and would not know if it is correct.
As much as Mr Graham travels and preaches Christ, it could be a misquote, as it seems to infer a change in his thought process
Mr Graham at times is scriptural and at times is unscriptural.
However He is an evangelist and this connotates go and preach the good news, not let people find God through nature or pagan ways.

[halfgospel]

hi petro,

Perhaps billy graham isn't a christian after all??

Yours in Christ,
Halfgospel

[Heidi]

This just shows me why we were instructed NOT to worship any man other than Christ becuase none of has the complete truth except Jesus Christ. I too used to think tha Billy Graham was the most enllightened evangelist, and he still may well be. But he can be in error because he is a mere human being. So can the pope with which, of course, the catholic church disagrees. That in itself is very scary. If that quote is true about Billy Graham, then of course, he has catered to the priases of men instead of the praises of God which, as we all know, can happen to any of us. Again, I do not look to Billy Graham as the way, the truth, and the life, but only as a man who has a fervor to spread the gospel. He can very definitely be wrong and that only leads me more to christ than to him.