obey leaders?

[Rhys]

Yes, scripture does use the word elder in the context of spiritual maturity quite frequently. Even though scripture does not give the specific ages of the Apostles it is figured by statements and circumstances of what they were doing at the time that they were in the ages of 17 to 30 at the start of Jesus' ministry.

The word was indicative of a person aged physically when used by the Jews but used in the spiritual aspect when used by the celestial council or Christian “presbyter” (Heb 5:14). Keep in mind also that the average age of a person at that time in Jerusalem was 35.

I agree the word "elder" primarily refers to spiritual maturity, not physical age. There are a lot of older believers who are still spiritual babies. However, in Jewish culture, men didn't begin to be respected and followed as "elders" until they were over 30 years old. Jesus himself didn't begin his public ministry until he reached that age. I don't think many people even today would respect a 17 year old "elder". There is a loose connection between physical age and spiritual maturity, as it takes time to become spiritually mature.

Also be careful of the last statement you made. I once listened to a public school teacher tell her class that people in early America had to marry young because the average lifespan was about 45 and they had to be able to raise their children before they died - a totally untrue conclusion drawn from an accurate statistic. Most men in early America were in their late 20's when they married and the women in their early twenties. The reason the average lifespan was so low was the high infant and child mortality rate. If you made it through your teens you were likely to live nearly as long as people do today. This situation was also present in Israel in Jesus' day.

[handysoap]

hi.... so I've been reading this book, undercover by john bevere.  has anyone read it? 
Another thing, the pastor and his wife are a pastoral team, they are both pastors.
the pastor wife feels she is a "mother" to everyone....

so I guess my question is, how to develop boundaries in one's self.... I've been praying about this, i feel that our church has been working like bevere's book says in some ways... and I don't agree with everything that he says....  I think we can use the scripture to back up whatever we want to say even though looking at scripture in context it doesn't say what we "say" it says, at all....  does anyone understand what I'm saying? 

[Soldier4Christ]

I don't know anything about the book that you are talking about. John Bevere though is a protege of Binny Hinn. If his teachings are anything like Hinn's then it is a book that needs to be thrown away. Yes, scripture can be twisted when a person selects certain passages to support there own opinions and ignores the rest.

[Brother Jerry]

Amen to that brother.  We see the twisting of Scripture all the time today.