obey leaders?

[handysoap]

I realize there is a verse in the new testament that says we should obey our spiritual leaders...Heb 13:17  Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit to them: for they watch in behalf of your souls, as they that shall give account; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief: for this were unprofitable for you.
 what does that mean to you?  Do you think that that means that our pastors have the right to tell us who to marry or not to?  Where to work?  I've been having a lot of problems (in my head) with this... partly because the wife of the husband wife pastor team especially, likes to preach on this and, in my opinion, butt into every one's lives whether they want advice or not.   Do they have the authority to tell you who you can or cannot talk to?  Sorry, I hope someone has some wisdom to share with me here 

[Soldier4Christ]

Hello BlessedX2,

Heb 13:17 is frequently taken out of context by those that wish to have complete authority over others in all things and situations. If we look back some verses (verse 7 ) we can see that this is speaking of matters of doctrine and faith.  Like it is for us in all things if the guidance of these leaders is not in accordance with scripture and is in fact in things that are contrary to scripture then we need to move away from them. If this person wants to simply be a busy body or dictator then they are not leading according to scripture and you definitely should not be following them but rather following Christ. After all it is Jesus Christ that we all should be following first and foremost.

[handysoap]

actually I dont' feel like it's that clear cut... if for example someone in our church would like to marry a nice christian girl and the leaders dont' want them to...

[David_james]

actually I dont' feel like it's that clear cut... if for example someone in our church would like to marry a nice christian girl and the leaders dont' want them to...

they have no authority over such matters.

[Soldier4Christ]

Being the pastor of the church they could indeed refuse to conduct the marriage. Even if they did not have a good Godly reason for doing so they could still refuse.

1Pe 5:1  The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
1Pe 5:2  Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
1Pe 5:3  Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
1Pe 5:4  And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.
1Pe 5:5  Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

First of all I would not be in a church where the pastor's wife inserts herself into the role of an elder or as a pastor. Nor would I be in a church where the rule is held in a communistic, iron fisted manner. It is all too often that people think themselves more than they are in positions of authority. Jesus Christ is the primary authority over a congregation not a pastor or a pastor's wife.

The only recourse that a person has in such a situation is to also do as scripture states. This would be to take the situation up with the pastor and if that does not resolve it then to take it up with at least two witnesses (preferably elders of the church) along with the pastor. Then if still not resolved the matter should be taken up before the church.

The only other recourse is to find a church that is more inline with scriptural teachings.

[Shammu]

they have no authority over such matters.

You are correct David!!

Being the pastor of the church they could indeed refuse to conduct the marriage. Even if they did not have a good Godly reason for doing so they could still refuse.

I have only refused once, and that is because of their pagan ways. Neither wanted to hear the Word, at their service. They wanted me to marry them with "mother earths" spiritual blessings.

[Soldier4Christ]

I have only refused once, and that is because of their pagan ways. Neither wanted to hear the Word, at their service. They wanted me to marry them with "mother earths" spiritual blessings.

That is totally understandable.

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

The most important points have already been mentioned:

CHRIST being the head over the CHURCH eliminates all kinds of problems.

GOD'S WORD is the Authority, and CHRIST is also called "THE WORD".

Godly pastors won't do things that are against GOD'S WORD.

Christians have CHRIST as the head over them 24/7, so this doesn't apply to just being present in a local assembly of believers. The pastor is just a man, and he won't be with members of the congregation except a few hours a week, but GOD will be with them ALWAYS AND FOREVER.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Revelation 7:1-4 ASV  1  After his I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that no wind should blow on the earth, or on the sea, or upon any tree.  2  And I saw another angel ascend from the sunrising, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a great voice to the four angels to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,  3  saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we shall have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.  4  And I heard the number of them that were sealed, a hundred and forty and four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:

[Chaplain Bob]

actually I dont' feel like it's that clear cut... if for example someone in our church would like to marry a nice christian girl and the leaders dont' want them to...

No one (not ever you) has the right to tell you who to marry, only God does.  As far as the other areas of your life are concerned you certainly may seek advise from your pastor (him, not her) and do what you will with his advise.  But if they are "butting in" without an invitation then I'd say find another church.

[izzy]

Remember when a Pastor or any leader tries to have control over you is not of "GOD" and have fallen out of His purpose.  No one has such authority over you to decide what you can or not do.

That is a spirit of control "The Spirit of Jezebel" look it up and you will see.

Blessings!

[nChrist]

We also don't need to get confused when a leader tries to tell us to do something that is illegal, immoral, and against GOD. As a perfect example, leaders during the Tribulation Period will tell the people to take the mark of the beast and worship him. The answer must be NO! It's surprising how many things like this apply today even in churches. The examples are almost endless as the world turns to evil more each day.

Ephesians 6:11-20 ASV   11  Put on the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.  12  For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world-rulers of this darkness, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.  13  Wherefore take up the whole armor of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all, to stand.  14  Stand therefore, having girded your loins with truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,  15  and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace;  16  withal taking up the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one.  17  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:  18  with all prayer and supplication praying at all seasons in the Spirit, and watching thereunto in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints,  19  and on my behalf, that utterance may be given unto me in opening my mouth, to make known with boldness the mystery of the gospel,  20  for which I am an ambassador in chains; that in it I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

[swordmanjr]

I realize there is a verse in the new testament that says we should obey our spiritual leaders...Heb 13:17  Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit to them: for they watch in behalf of your souls, as they that shall give account; that they may do this with joy, and not with grief: for this were unprofitable for you. what does that mean to you?  Do you think that that means that our pastors have the right to tell us who to marry or not to?  Where to work?  I've been having a lot of problems (in my head) with this... partly because the wife of the husband wife pastor team especially, likes to preach on this and, in my opinion, butt into every one's lives whether they want advice or not.   Do they have the authority to tell you who you can or cannot talk to?  Sorry, I hope someone has some wisdom to share with me here 

First of all, what is a pastor? Where did the NT ever establish that pastors are the authorities? They're mentioned only once through the entire text, and yet many professing believers seem to see that title written on every other page of the NT.

Secondly, where did the word of God ever hand spiritual authority over to those guys who head up man-made, religious organizations most call their church?

I've never found a verse where the Bible states that a hireling automatically qualifies as a leader of biblical stature and caliber.

SwJr

[Soldier4Christ]

I am not nor never will be a "hireling" of any local assembly. That would mean that I have to do just exactly what those people say. That does not fit my calling. Yes, calling. I am called by God. I am a servant of God not a servant of man.

There are many words used today in reference to God and His word that are not specifically in the Bible. It does not mean that the idea, the meaning behind that word does not exist. The word pastor means one who tends sheep. Like Jesus told Peter, "Feed my sheep." Evangelist, preacher, teacher, minister ... irregardless of the word that you wish to use or not use to describe this person their place is to feed the sheep of Jesus Christ. They are indeed to feed, to lead and guide them to their Master, Jesus Christ.

Irregardless of what you may like to think there are local assemblies in scripture and there are directions as to how they are to be setup. These local assemblies are a part of the Church, which is the body of Christ and it is Jesus Christ that is the head of that church not any many man.

If only so-called Christians would spend as much time preaching the Gospel instead of doing what they can to tare down the work of God through local assemblies by continually denigrating those assemblies. The spreading of their negative teachings do nothing for God nor for the lost but more harm.

[nChrist]

First of all, what is a pastor? Where did the NT ever establish that pastors are the authorities? They're mentioned only once through the entire text, and yet many professing believers seem to see that title written on every other page of the NT.

Secondly, where did the word of God ever hand spiritual authority over to those guys who head up man-made, religious organizations most call their church?

I've never found a verse where the Bible states that a hireling automatically qualifies as a leader of biblical stature and caliber.

SwJr

Let's cut to the chase. Are you the only one who measures up in your way of thinking?

[Brother Jerry]

Amen to that BEP.

And that would go to anyone.  If you are the only one who thinks the way you do...I would seriously consider that you dig deep within your Bible and consider that you are probably wrong.  I know the Bible says that the way is narrow and few will enter...however there were still 12 disciples that all thought the same way, not one.