Commandments of the Lord...

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 7 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
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1 Timothy 4:12  Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.

1 Timothy 6:11  But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.

2 Timothy 1:7  For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

2 Timothy 1:13  Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:22  Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

2 Timothy 4:8  Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

Titus 2:2  That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.

Titus  3:4  But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

Philemon 1:5  Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;

Philemon 1:7  For we have great joy and consolation in thy love, because the bowels of the saints are refreshed by thee, brother.

Philemon 1:9  Yet for love's sake I rather beseech thee, being such an one as Paul the aged, and now also a prisoner of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 6:10  For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Hebrews 10:24  And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 8 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
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Hebrews 13:1  Let brotherly love continue.

James 2:8  If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

1 Peter 1:8  Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

1 Peter 1:22  Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Peter 2:17  Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

1 Peter 3:8  Finally, be ye all of one mind, having compassion one of another, love as brethren, be pitiful, be courteous:

1 Peter 3:10  For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:

1 Peter 4:8  And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.

1 Peter 5:14  Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace be with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

2 Peter 1:7  And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

1 John 2:5  But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 3:1  Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

1 John 3:11  For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to All,

(Isn't it all about love? - Part 9 - Please forgive any repeated Scriptures)
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1 John 3:14  We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

1 John 3:16  Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
1 John 3:17  But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1 John 3:18  My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
1 John 4:8  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
1 John 4:9  In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
1 John 4:10  Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
1 John 4:11  Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
1 John 4:12  No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

1 John 4:16  And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
1 John 4:17  Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
1 John 4:18  There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
1 John 4:19  We love him, because he first loved us.
1 John 4:20  If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1 John 4:21  And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

(Jude 1:2  Mercy unto you, and peace, and love, be multiplied.)

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Petro]

Tom,


There is nothing to forgive, hese are excellent scriptures.

Centering around the second commandment Jesus quoted.

I will meditate on them.

Thank You..

By the way, is this what was at the Devotion study, I did'nt quite undestand where that study was at..??


God Bless,

Petro

[michael_legna]

author michael_legna



Yes Paul, when he speaks of commandment, does carry the same weight as the commandments of God.  As an Apostle and Bishop Paul received the same promise the others did and those who followed them.  That promise was that whatever they bound and loosed on earth would be bound and loosed in heaven.  (Mt 16:19)  The Church is the final point of authority in answering disputes.  (Mt 18:17-18)  The Holy Spirit guides them to keep them from error and God backs them up on their decisions.

michael,

I understand that when Paul says,

1 Cor 14
34  Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.  1 Cor 14:34
35  And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

He is speaking as Gods mouth piece.

My question is when he says;

1 Cor 7
6  But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.


Is this the same as God speaking??




Petro

Sorry I missed your focus in your first message.

I think that since he is specifically contrasting that teaching of "permission" with the idea that he is not speaking as a "commandment" that this manner in which to lead their lives is being suggested not required.  

So although the counsel is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit and therefore infallible, it is still just counsel.  

I think of it as some of the laws of the old testament, like and eye for an eye.  They were laws of limitation.  If someone put out your eye, you could do no more than put out their eye.  But you could (as Jesus was later to specifically teach) forgive them and not put out their eye at all.  

Here the individuals are encouraged to take up lives of celibacy or if they cannot stand it - marry, and then married couples are being adviced on a superior manner in which to live (married celibacy) for a short time, but only when both agree to it.  But no requirement is being placed here on anyone.  It is only a suggested superior approach.

Of course the requirement to marry to avoid fornication is found elsewhere and this discussion of permissions does not over ride that commandment.

Hope that was clear.

[nChrist]

Thank You..

By the way, is this what was at the Devotion study, I did'nt quite undestand where that study was at..??


God Bless,

Petro

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Petro,

Christian Love is something I have been thinking about and praying about for several weeks. I have been studying the portions of Scripture I quoted and following the links and comparisons. I post the Hoekstra Devotion every day under "Share a Thought". The subject matter of the Hoekstra Devotion was a timely coincidence and good addition to my study.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Reba]

author michael_legna



Yes Paul, when he speaks of commandment, does carry the same weight as the commandments of God.  As an Apostle and Bishop Paul received the same promise the others did and those who followed them.  That promise was that whatever they bound and loosed on earth would be bound and loosed in heaven.  (Mt 16:19)  The Church is the final point of authority in answering disputes.  (Mt 18:17-18)  The Holy Spirit guides them to keep them from error and God backs them up on their decisions.

michael,

I understand that when Paul says,

1 Cor 14
34  Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.  1 Cor 14:34
35  And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

He is speaking as Gods mouth piece.

My question is when he says;

1 Cor 7
6  But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.


Is this the same as God speaking??




Petro

Either it is God speaking or you dont believe the Bible to be Gods word.  Petro do you believe the Bible to be the word of God?  A yes or no  THEN explane your answer would be great ty.

[Petro]

author michael_legna



Yes Paul, when he speaks of commandment, does carry the same weight as the commandments of God.  As an Apostle and Bishop Paul received the same promise the others did and those who followed them.  That promise was that whatever they bound and loosed on earth would be bound and loosed in heaven.  (Mt 16:19)  The Church is the final point of authority in answering disputes.  (Mt 18:17-18)  The Holy Spirit guides them to keep them from error and God backs them up on their decisions.

michael,

I understand that when Paul says,

1 Cor 14
34  Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.  1 Cor 14:34
35  And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
37  If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

He is speaking as Gods mouth piece.

My question is when he says;

1 Cor 7
6  But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.


Is this the same as God speaking??




Petro

Either it is God speaking or you dont believe the Bible to be Gods word.  Petro do you believe the Bible to be the word of God?  A yes or no  THEN explane your answer would be great ty.

reba,

I believe what God says and since I can read for myself, I can also understand that, when the Apostles says, he is giving his opinion (though the reader ought to take it as inspired by God but not as a commandment)and the Lord does not command what he is about to say, is not a commandment from the Lord it, will not be a sin if not not observed.

I asked these question since it appears to me that some christians would use these very scripture to claim they are on par or have more weight than what Jesus spoke elsewhere.

Perhaps you never thought about this, I did notice that your understand of these verse at 1 Cor 7, were nto as understood by these who claimed otherwise.

As I said before this has nothing to do with the Word of God being the inspired version, but that of AUTHORITY, I have always seen it the way allinall defined it, an opinion rendered by one of Gods elect, is not the same as a Commandment from the Lord himself.

Feel free to comment on this, but post the scriptures on which you relie on to show, where I am wrong.

But please do not mention tradition..

Blessings,

Petro

Blessings,

Petro

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Petro and All,

Please accept my apology for some posts that appeared to hi-jack the thread and talk about Christian Love in our posts. It was suggested another thread be started and I have moved those posts to Fellowship - You Name It - Christian Love In Our Posts.

Commandments of the Lord is a precious topic, one that I wish to participate in. I wasn't thinking on the "Christian Love in our posts" thoughts and had no intention of disrupting or changing the thread topic. I apologize Brother Petro.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Heidi]

Of course love is the essence of Jesus's teachings. But we cannot "decide" to love. We can only admit how much we do not love our neighbor and ask for forgiveness for it. It is that forgiveness that we receive that we can then give to our neighbor. If Christ forgave me, than everyone deserves forgivess! If we could decide to love our neighbor, then we wouldn't need Christ.

[ebia]

But we cannot "decide" to love.

Of course we can.  Love isn't touchy-feely. It's choosing to do the right thing for someone, even when it's the last thing you want to do.

[Petro]

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Petro and All,

Please accept my apology for some posts that appeared to hi-jack the thread and talk about Christian Love in our posts. It was suggested another thread be started and I have moved those posts to Fellowship - You Name It - Christian Love In Our Posts.

Commandments of the Lord is a precious topic, one that I wish to participate in. I wasn't thinking on the "Christian Love in our posts" thoughts and had no intention of disrupting or changing the thread topic. I apologize Brother Petro.

Love In Christ,
Tom

BEP,  think nothing of it, post what you like any time you desire, I enjoy reading wht you post.

This has become an issue as of a result of the Divorce thread, as you can see.

I suggest, that you bring those threads which are not Bible studies, out of that forum, since it appears they are more about opinions of what the Word says rather than, what they teach.

My responses to reba, were based on the authority of Gods Word, contained in His commandments.

And my proof text is;

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Christians unwilling to take Jesus's words as final authority, will be judged by His words, on the last day.

This is a far cry from the verse in question, where Paul voices his opinion, which is not a commandment of thr Lord.

You have any opinion on this.

Blessings,

Petro

[JudgeNot]

I suggest, that you bring those threads which are not Bible studies, out of that forum, since it appears they are more about opinions of what the Word says rather than, what they teach.

Brother Petro - what the Bible teaches is, in fact, a matter of individual conjecture.  That is why we have Bible Study. (?)
If Bible teachings were NOT a matter of interpretation, then why does this website exist??  Why do we have umpteen and two-thirds different Christian denominations?  

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Brother Petro,

You asked my opinion about:

1 Corinthians 7:6  But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

"Permission" is translated from a word meaning "knowing together, understanding, agreement, and concession.

"Not of commandment" is translated from an old word "enjoin."

Verse 1 makes it plain that Paul is answering questions that were sent to him.

The literal wording of verse 6 leaves the question open, but it also refers to understanding, agreement, and concession with the parties involved. Paul makes it very plain that he is not talking about a command from the Lord and leaves the question open as a matter of mutual agreement. Paul is certainly not leaving the question of fornication or adultery open.

It is interesting there are other portions of Scripture that are like this but with different meanings in the same general area:

1 Corinthians 7:12, 1 Corinthians 7:25, 2 Corinthians 8:8, and 2 Corinthians 11:17.

It is also interesting to note a mixture of Jews and Gentiles in the Church. Jews would have been raised with very strict commands and tradition in marriage. Several interesting questions in this portion of the Bible are only explained after you go back and look at Jewish law and tradition. As an example, marriage for a young Jewish man was bound to a command to marry between the age of 17 and 20. If he passes 20 years of age without becoming married, he has transgressed. Paul leaves this and several other matters as choice instead of command.

Some Scriptures in this area would lead to confusion pretty quickly unless they were researched and put together with the times and the problems Paul was attempting to address. As another example, is Paul "forbidding to marry" in 1 Corinthians 7:26. Would that create a conflict with Hebrews 13:4 or 1 Timothy 4:3. Paul says that it is good for a man not to touch a woman, and that was the Old Testament way of saying not to get married.

It would help if we had the specific questions in the letter Paul was trying to address. There was some sort of "present distress" and problems that were sure to include fidelity, lusts of the flesh, and marriage. If you read the surrounding portions of Scripture, it appears obvious that Paul is giving advice, not commands or instructions from God. Paul would not be using terms that required agreement, mutual understanding, and concession if he had any intention to give commands. In fact, he does the opposite and makes sure the people know it is not a command.

This is a fascinating portion of the Bible, but one that requires slow and careful study to avoid confusion. I think the conlcusion is Paul is giving advice to help the people avoid Satan drawing them into sin.

Love In Christ,
Tom


 

[Petro]

BEP,

Thank you for commenting, I did not mean to put you on the spot, I sensed you wanted to say something, but was, skirting the issue by oposting verses, about love, you know I love the word purely stated, and I agree Christians ought to love one another.

But when a christian, takes scripture and changes it meaning, for the sake of allowing something which plainly is not taught by the Word, then it seems that is not displaying love at all.

As I was reading your response herein, I remembered the passage of 1 Cor 5:1-5.

Not to put you on the spot a second time, but would you give your understanding of the passage of scripture?

Somehow I see, this passage tied to Acts 15:19-29.

Thank You and God Bless.


Petro