''why do church people die''?

[Brother Jerry]

Amen PR.

One has to remember a couple of things.  God IS merciful...but God is also just.  If we could get earn our entry into heaven by simply living a good life and never hearing the gospel then Christ would have come in vain.  We could all simply burn our Bibles and shut our mouths and everyone would then be allowed into heaven.

The vs mentioned above states something quite clearly the evidence of God is everywhere and it has been since the beginning of time.  Think about it, how can anyone look around and not see creation?  Because they see evolution.  What is evolution but a man made idea that ultimately leads men away from God.  Would it be just to not punish those that follow evolution, who willfully ignore God, simply because someone never left a track on their car or knocked on their door?  Heavens no it would not be.

God is just.  Man is not.  If you ever begin to think that something God did just does not sound right...then I would strongly urge you to read your Bible more and pray.  BEcause as soon as you starting thinking what is wrong and what is right you fall under the concept of what Adam and Eve got for eating of the forbidden fruit. 

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I wish that the lost knew the real truth about belonging to JESUS. It isn't a burden to be a Christian in this short life - rather a joy, a help, a purpose, hope, and much more. It doesn't take long for most of us to know how horrible this short life would be like without CHRIST as Saviour.

I know that nobody likes the idea of physically dying, but it is much different for a Christian. THE PROMISES OF GOD ARE WAITING - "absent from the body, present with the LORD."

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

[teekii]

In response to a couple of the last comments, all I'm simpley saying is Because God is Merciful everyone will have at least one chance, to accept or reject the truth. Yes God is also very just. That's why I know the young man had to make a choice either by denying the truth or ignoring it. Every one Gets a chance.You can't be held accountable for what you don't know,b/c God is Just.

[Maryjane]

Yes..God is merciful and just..He is also Sovereign and even the birds and the trees praise Him..God will stand by His word no matter what man thinks..without accepting Jesus there is no salvation..it is funny to be called "church people" it was not church people who were persecuted unto death knowing that no matter what happens to their mortal bodies..they would endure for the cause of Christ and to endure is to reign with Him..these are called"Christians" we are christians when we bear the name of Christ..and to bear the name of Chrsit is to take up your cross daily..to live everyday for the one who gives eternal life..to know His word and to live it..it is the key for knowing the Word you know exactly what God requires of His creation..

[Maryjane]

Hi Brothers and Sisters..

I know I posted earlier, but I was thinking about this post topic and it brought to mind that when man tries to be a god and will not listen to truth..then the Lord is not in that person and that person does not understand the Word because he is not of God. It is so sad that one cruises christian spaces and cannot see the truth..and can see but refuse and it brings to mind 2nd John..I hope Discovery will discover the only one that can save a sin sick soul and give eternal life..until then..that person is seperated from God

[Brother Jerry]

In response to a couple of the last comments, all I'm simpley saying is Because God is Merciful everyone will have at least one chance, to accept or reject the truth. Yes God is also very just. That's why I know the young man had to make a choice either by denying the truth or ignoring it. Every one Gets a chance.You can't be held accountable for what you don't know,b/c God is Just.

If what I understand you to be saying you do not believe that a tribesman in the deepest part of Africa, that may never had a missionary come and tell them about Jesus, will not be sent to hell.  Is that correct?

If so could you please bring forth some Scripture that would support that?  Not your personal beliefs or feelings, but what does God's book say about His judgement?

[nChrist]

Amen And Amen Maryjane!

Your two posts spoke volumes. We live in confusing and increasingly EVIL times. I view the "man wanting to be god" problem as humanism, and this is a truly ugly problem. In reality, it's man trying to push the LIVING GOD out and thinking he can take HIS place.

THEN, there are the more literal EVIL problems of man saying that he really is god or speaks for the LIVING GOD. We had one of our previously banned users on national news this week. He went by various names and started out with communes in California. He actually claimed to be the MESSIAH, and law enforcement ended his con games in New Mexico after he molested an unknown number of children in his following. I find it interesting that he gave a false prophecy that the world would end in October 2007, so he is an OBVIOUSLY CONFIRMED false prophet. His following is actually a cult, and they let him explain away his false prophecy. He's going to prison, but he's promised to rain down his righteous wrath on the law enforcement officers who put him out of business. It's horribly sad to know that there are hundreds more just like him - just in this country.

Sister, the REAL TRUTH of THE GOSPEL OF GOD'S GRACE, THE GOOD NEWS, is desperately needed by a lost and dying world. We should know that the devil is competing for the souls of every last one of them. The devil appears to be almost everywhere - working 24/7 - DECEIVING AND DEVOURING! I doubt that any of us have seen any time when the devil was so obviously working out in the open. He's gotten into our schools, churches, and even our homes - so his work is a raving success. He is attacking in just about every way possible, and it's becoming more and more difficult for Christians to distribute GOD'S GOOD NEWS.

The truth is that things are going to get much worse if the End Days of this Age of Grace are drawing near. I think these days are drawing near. The time has already come when many men hate GOD'S WORD and don't want to hear it. WHY? - It's still the most powerful message on the face of the earth. The devil is becoming more and more desperate to shut up the GOOD NEWS and silence those who are trying to share it. More and more Christians around the world are being persecuted, beaten, imprisoned, and killed. WHY? - GOD'S WORD AND THE GOOD NEWS never returns void. IT ALWAYS ACHIEVES HIS WILL AND PURPOSE.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:18-23 NASB I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

[nChrist]

GOOD NEWS!

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

[Maryjane]

AMEN BEP..We have won through the blood of Jesus that covers us..it is the only reason we receive the gift of eternal life but more so to see our Savior and fall before His feet..

[teekii]

If what I understand you to be saying you do not believe that a tribesman in the deepest part of Africa, that may never had a missionary come and tell them about Jesus, will not be sent to hell.  Is that correct?

If so could you please bring forth some Scripture that would support that?  Not your personal beliefs or feelings, but what does God's book say about His judgement?

[/quote/] The reason I believe the way that I do Is because of the scriptures. Let me start off by saying I don't claim to know it all. I believe Christianity is something we all walk in and grow in continually everyday.I also believe that one person does not know it all or have all the right answers we are to learn from one another. I think We as Christians do need to be very careful on who we condemn to hell. Don't get me wrong I'm a firm believer that there is a  heaven and a hell.those who hear the gospel and except that as the truth in our hearts and confessed Jesus Christ as our savior will gain eternal Life with the Lord, but the scripture says to him that know to to right but don't to him it is sin. It is called the sin of omission. Now according to the scripture In Matthew 24th ch. Jesus himself said the end would not even come until the gospel had been preached throughout the whole world. I believe the whole world includes the deepest part of Africa,Asia, Europe or whereever. Even the Apostle Paul taught on the very thing we are discussing in Romans 10. The scripture also talked about how beautiful are the feet of those who bring the Good News. In Colossians 1 he said that the same good news that was preached to them was being preached all over the world. He wrote that almost 2000yrs. ago and that same Good news traveled all the way to the United States and was preached to us , we believed it and now we are saved . The scripture says it is God's will that no one should parish, but that all come into the knowledge of the truth.It also says that Hell was not made for us ,but for Satan and his angels.The Apostle Paul also said that he committed the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the holyspirit, but since he did it in ignorance God was merciful and forgave him. Does that sound like the same kind of merciful God that would send people to hell for not knowing the truth. When establishing a relationship with God you start understanding just who God really is,by studying his word. He will make sure that everyone has some type of knowledge of who he is. The scripture said he put it down in the heart of every man the belief that he exists. So people who choose to go to hell will not be gong out of ignorance.They will know exactly why they are there. To say they won't know is calling God's word a lie. It's saying that his gospel was not preached through out the world and that he didn't put the belief of him down in every heart of every man. It's saying God skipped a few people like people down in the deepest part of Africa or where ever and considered them not worthy of hearing the gospel. If camera crews can get down there to show us on t.v. that those people exist.Trust me he can lay it on a missionary's heart to go there and preach the gospel. Doesn't that sound more like the God We know and serve? Finally in the book of Revelation ch.21:8 the Apostle John gave a list of the people who would have there part in the lake of fire. I didn't see people who never had heard of Jesus Christ on that list,unless I missed something in that scripture. Like I said I don't claim to know it all.but the people that was on that list is what proves to me that God is just.

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi teeki,

It appears that we are basically saying the same thing here.

The scripture said he put it down in the heart of every man the belief that he exists.

This statement is basically the same meaning as was posted using the verse of Romans 1:20. All are without excuse.

Another point to be made here is that no one here is condemning anyone. We are simply telling what scriptures has to say on this subject.

Yes, Hell was made for satan and his angels. Scriptures also tells us in numerous places that those that reject Him will also be cast into hell and will suffer eternal fire.

[Brother Jerry]

Now according to the scripture In Matthew 24th ch. Jesus himself said the end would not even come until the gospel had been preached throughout the whole world. I believe the whole world includes the deepest part of Africa,Asia, Europe or whereever. Even the Apostle Paul taught on the very thing we are discussing in Romans 10.

Agreed.  This was never in doubt
 
 

The scripture also talked about how beautiful are the feet of those who bring the Good News. In Colossians 1 he said that the same good news that was preached to them was being preached all over the world. He wrote that almost 2000yrs. ago and that same Good news traveled all the way to the United States and was preached to us , we believed it and now we are saved .

Well technically unless you are a Native American you brought the good news with you   But I get your point.
 

The scripture says it is God's will that no one should parish, but that all come into the knowledge of the truth.It also says that Hell was not made for us ,but for Satan and his angels.The Apostle Paul also said that he committed the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the holyspirit, but since he did it in ignorance God was merciful and forgave him.

You are speaking of 1 Timothy 1 in which Paul is stating that he was "formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor" (1Tim1:13NASB).  This is not in reference to the unforgivable sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit as mentioned in Matthew 2:31,Mark 3:39, and Luke 12:10.  Those verses let us know that there is a difference between blasphemy and blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.  And Paul's writtings in 1 Timothy he does say that was a blasphemer, but it is of the sort that is not the blasphemer of the Holy Spirit.  He could not be of that category because Jesus Himself said that sin could not be forgiven, it does not say could not be forgiven unless they did not know any better, it simply says that the sin of blaspheme against the Holy Spirit cannot be forgiven. 

This is because the blaspheme against the Holy Spirit is to deny Christ during your life.  Once you die the physical death there is not second chances.  God will not forgive you once you passed out of this physical life.  So no Paul was not of this category, he was simply a blasphemer.
 
 

Does that sound like the same kind of merciful God that would send people to hell for not knowing the truth.

You answered that yourself when you stated "Scripture said he put it down in the heart of every man the belief that He exists"
Also remember that the Bible tells us that sin entered into this world through one man.  That we are all born sinners.  The idea that those that have not heard the Gospel are not held accountable under the same rules would indicate that those people were also not born under the same sin nature that Adam brought into the world. 
 
This is really where this ideology can be dangerous.  We often try to say that since God is merciful that He could not possibly send those who have never heard the Gospel to Hell.  Of course right off this also says that God is not just so it goes against the BIble.  But this is dangerous because it would indicate that there is a second way to salvation, ignorance. 

Jesus told us to go and spread the word to all the world.  Why would He do that if ignorance is bliss and if you remain truly ignorant then you too can be saved?  We should feel terrible that there are people in this world that have not been shared the good news of Christ.  That there are people being sent to Hell because of our laziness. 

[teekii]

To me  with all due respect and love it, at times it does not sound as though we're saying the same thing. I still have a problem with condemning people to hell because of the laziness of one Christian,which I believe is what started the whole discussion,remember" a letter from hell" a friend going to hell because one saved friend didn't witness to him about Christ. And even though this is a fictional story,I couldn't help but to ask if it was true ,who's to say the friend would've accepted Christ anyway. So to all my brothers and sisters let's agree on this one thing in this discussion. We all agree that there is a heaven and there is a hell,and since in this fictional story a soul was sent to hell supposedly b/c one saint in particular didn't witness to him. Let's continue to make it our business to tell everyone we know about Jesus. One thing they taught us in cosmetology school is never to talk about race, religion,or politics in the salon.Since I have relationship with God and not religion,[lol] I make it my personal business to witness to unbelievers,and encourage believers to stay in the race. This way I'm not breaking the rules.[lol] Yes I'm that beautician that is probably praying for you while I'm washing your hair,and I don't mind stopping what I'm doing to pray for you in private either b/c prayer is always in order,even in the beautyshop.Instead of gossiping I enjoy witnessing. Now I'm going to crank it up a thousand b/c of what it sounds like you all are saying. I don't want to be held accountable for anyone's lost soul, just in case you all are right. Woo, It's a good thing I love to witness! SO BE WARNED LAZY CHRISTIANS! also remember that verse in Rev21:8 with that list of people that were put into the lake of fire? it said cowards who turned away from me. Do you all think that qualifies as not witnessing or people who backslid? Or better yet, how about Mark8:38"If a person is ashamed of me and my message in these adulterous and sinful days,I, the Son of Man will be ashamed of that person when I return in the glory of my Father with the holy angels." Now that's deep. So let's get busy not just witnessing with our talk,but with our walk also.Like my Granny said ,who is also a minister of the gospel, "sometimes people can't hear ya for seeing ya!" Much Love!  P.S. This forum has been great for a sister that is going through a tough time in life. It helps me keep my mind on the Lord and not on my circumstances.Thanks for all your prayers.Keep on praying for me.

[BFSmith1040]

i was thinking ''why do church people die''?    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

is it because of 1 corn. 1 v 10 - how ''the house'' has been divided and cannot stand?
Has this ''house'' been abandoned by the Holy Spirit and is the devil now in control.? Is the church a counterfeit because of rebellion?
Does the Holy Spirit love mammon, the churches thrive upon?

Perhaps we need to ask serious questions, cuz the church today is nothing like the group trained up by Yahushua Messiah.

Also
the wages of sin is death.
how can a person who has been
1] forgiven
2] covered by the Blood of the Lamb
3] born again as a new creature, where all old things have passed away and new things appear.
4] santified
5] renewed daily
6] under now no condemnation

etc


Quote
2 tim 1 v 10 - is the believer gospel? let us look together
 1:9  Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,


 2Ti 1:10  But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:


 2Ti 1:11  Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.


Paul was an appointed Apostle, teacher and Preacher of this Gospel.

1] abolishing death
2] has now brought to light
3]LIFE AND IMMORTALITY.

NOW THAT sounds like a new creation born again and saved doesn't it?
People who remain alive and have conquered their last enemy death rather than toppling into the tomb.

Hello there I can't help but say that I am a bit surprised at that question "Why do Church people die". It would seem as if you expect/believe that Christians are never to die in this age, because they are born again. Question: Didn't Jesus die? Was He supposed to continue in that frail and corruptible body that He was born with?

Aren’t Christians promise a new and spiritual body? Since we are promise a spiritual body like that of Jesus, what do you believe would happen to the old one?

[nChrist]

Hello there I can't help but say that I am a bit surprised at that question "Why do Church people die". It would seem as if you expect/believe that Christians are never to die in this age, because they are born again. Question: Didn't Jesus die? Was He supposed to continue in that frail and corruptible body that He was born with?

Aren’t Christians promise a new and spiritual body? Since we are promise a spiritual body like that of Jesus, what do you believe would happen to the old one?

Hello BFSmith1040,

If you read page one of this thread, you'll understand why this is a strange conversation. We did try to turn the thread around and make something positive out of it. Let's put it this way:  some people don't understand that physical death IS NOT THE END. I suspect that the one starting this thread wanted to mock CHRIST and Christians.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Favorite Bible Quotes 262 - John 3:34-36 For he whom God hath sent
speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure
unto him. 35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into
his hand. 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and
he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God
abideth on him.