New Discovery--Archaeology

[BDoggy]

good point ;)just don't expect to have a productive conversation with him. but you're right we should, "contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints."

[GarColga]

Actually I think you COULD have a productive conversation with him. You just don't want to hear what he is saying.
Even Jewish archaeologists are starting to believe that much of the Old Testament, the sojourn in Egypt, the Exodus, Joshua's conquest, never happened at all.

Not to mention such nonsense as the Great Flood and the Tower of Babel!

The Bible contains a lot of mythology and self-serving history. No fundamentalist will ever agree to that, but it is something that every objective student of the Bible eventually comes to terms with.

[Symphony]

GarColga, "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths."  II Timothy 4:3,4

Just yesterday(Monday, June 23), Paul Harvey read news possible discovery of encrusted chariot wheels bottom Red Sea; by comparison with contemporay Egyptian chariot design known already of that time(eight spokes to a wheel, 1400 B.C.), the report suggests these are there from the time of the Exodus.

[Symphony]

Seems they've found what is believed to be the site, and foundations, of the fortress/temple where Gideon's son, Abimelech, in Judges 9, cornered and massacred 1000 villagers.  In the current issue of Bib'l Arch'y Review magazine.  Cover article.

[Symphony]

The Israel Antiquities Authority arrested the owner of the James Ossuary, on CBS news this morning.  IAA claiming they found forging/engraving equipment in his home.

BAR magazine's Hershel Shanks, who first broke the original story last fall, has continued a running account of this discovery, in the Bib'l Arch'y Review.  He presents convincing reasons why the ossuary is authentic.

Question:  If the owner is careful enough to forge an engraving convincingly(to scholars and scientists who have examined the box), then why would he be so careless as to leave any of that necessary forging equipment around his house?

My suspicion:  The owner is being framed, by the IAA.  That the IAA would naturally be hostile to discoveries tending to authenticate the existence of Jesus(or any of his brothers)?

[Petro]

Actually I think you COULD have a productive conversation with him. You just don't want to hear what he is saying.
Even Jewish archaeologists are starting to believe that much of the Old Testament, the sojourn in Egypt, the Exodus, Joshua's conquest, never happened at all.

Not to mention such nonsense as the Great Flood and the Tower of Babel!

The Bible contains a lot of mythology and self-serving history. No fundamentalist will ever agree to that, but it is something that every objective student of the Bible eventually comes to terms with.

Garcola,

you said;

Actually I think you COULD have a productive conversation with him.

Of course you do..

In another thread awhile back, weren't arguin, the serpent of Genesis 3, and the Red Dragon of Rev 12, were not one and the same??

This is why, you and this fellow can have productive conversations..

You deny the truth.

Petro

[Symphony]

I'm sorry?

[Symphony]

From my earlier post above:

Under Arrest.
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2003, 09:26:36 AM »      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Israel Antiquities Authority arrested the owner of the James Ossuary, on CBS news this morning.  IAA claiming they found forging/engraving equipment in his home.

BAR magazine's Hershel Shanks, who first broke the original story last fall, has continued a running account of this discovery, in the Bib'l Arch'y Review.  He presents convincing reasons why the ossuary is authentic.

Question:  If the owner is careful enough to forge an engraving convincingly(to scholars and scientists who have examined the box), then why would he be so careless as to leave any of that necessary forging equipment around his house?

My suspicion:  The owner is being framed, by the IAA.  That the IAA would naturally be hostile to discoveries tending to authenticate the existence of Jesus(or any of his brothers)?

____________________


Today, August 15:  Has anyone heard anymore about this case.  Is the owner still under arrest??

[Symphony]

3 1/2 months later now.

Just today:

Scholars Discover Parts of Luke's Gospel

The clue was barely legible. At first, it was just the name that was visible: Simon. It was carved in Greek letters high atop the mammoth and weather-beaten burial monument that dates from the time of Christ.

Full article:

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/package.jsp?name=fte/lukesgospel/lukesgospel

Seems it's the same tomb announced earlier this year as the burial site of Zacheriah, John the Baptist's priest-father...

More and more evidence...

[Symphony]

If Zechariah was an old man when he and Elizabeth had John the Baptist(Luke 1:7), and Zechariah is known to have been martyred, then he just about would have had to have been killed before, and probably long before, Jesus began his actual ministry, some thirty one years later.

So if Jesus wasn't preaching yet, and if therefore there weren't any Christians around yet, why would Zechariah have been martyred?  By whom?  Zechariah, as a priest in the Temple,  was "...righteous before God", it says, Luke 1:6.

[Symphony]

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/package.jsp?name=fte/jesusburialbox/jesusburialbox

James' ossuary authentic; no, it's a forgery; no, it's authentic.

The latest...

"Scholars: Jesus Burial Box Could Be Real

"In October 2002, an Israeli named Oded Golan produced a limestone box, called an ossuary, that he says he purchased in the mid-1970s from an antiquities dealer in the Old City of Jerusalem for about $200. What makes this box special is that Golan insisted it held the bones of Jesus' brother, James. An ossuary was used in ancient times as a burial box. This box bears the inscription, "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus."

[Symphony]

Current issue of Bib'l Arch'y Review magazine:  Latest, new report on cave where Lot and two daughters thot to have hid, SE shore of Dead Sea; excavations there, began 1986; ancient ruins, artifacts going back to 3300 B.C.  Inscriptions from later Byzentine ruins(500 A.D.), referring to "St. Lot"...

[Symphony]

Just saw the following today, at Netscape news:

Science: Bible's Red Sea Miracle Is Real?

This is what the book of Exodus says about the parting of the Red Sea:

"And Moses stretched out his hand over the sea; and the Lord caused the sea to go back by a strong east wind all that night, and made the sea dry land, and the waters were divided. And the children of Israel went into the midst of the sea upon dry ground: the waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left."



Two mathematicians--one from St. Petersburg, Russia and the other from Hamburg, Germany--have concluded that the biblical story of Moses parting the rushing waters of the Red Sea so 600,000 Jews could escape slavery by the Egyptians was possible scientifically and in concurrence with the laws of physics.

Russia's St. Petersburg Times reports that ....

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/package.jsp?name=fte/redsea/redsea

[Broken]

I'm not sure that it is in Israel's interest to create some conspiracy to make out the james ossuary is false, Symphony.

It is in Oded Golan's interest to forge one though - as the value of the box has increased enormously.

IMO the box is fine, the inscription is fake - possibly a very early fake.

Having faith does not mean you have to believe everything someone tells you just because it happens to fit your belief.

~~~~

Witness the lack of interest in the story of the ossuary of Jesus son of Joseph, along with the ossuaries of Mary and Joseph, found in Israel in 1996.

[Symphony]

It is in Oded Golan's interest to forge one though - as the value of the box has increased enormously.

Well, he is a collector.  And it would take some acumen to take that kind of risk--such a claim as the inscription implies would be obviously senstional.  He would know as a knowledgable collector that a discovered forgery would ruin him.  To forge such a find is enormously risky.

possibly a very early fake.


A very early fake then would only authenticate, validate or confirm other finds of similar antiquity--including mss--not to mention the validity of the narrative itself?  It seems like the earlier the date, the more valid it would become.  I think the IAA regards it as a recent forgery...

The current issue of BAR(Jan/Feb 04), contains an article posing the isotope anomoly of the patina, on the ossuary, and concludes that the IAA conclusion is unwarranted.   I don't think BAR, either, is necessarily a "Christian" sympathizer.  This issue also contains an article implying that Jesus derived his poverty sympathies from the Essenes; obviously dismissing then His divine nature or character.   Why would he need to be taking marching orders from the Essenes, if He were God?