Wars And Rumors Of Wars

[Shammu]

I just did some checking, the distance between Tbilisi to Jerusalem is 866 miles or for you Naval personal (PR)    752 nautical miles. This is flying distance between Tbilisi and Jerusalem.

[Shammu]

Georgia says Russia bombed after order to halt war

By CHRISTOPHER TORCHIA and MISHA DZHINDZHIKHASHVILI, Associated Press Writers 4 minutes ago

TBILISI, Georgia - Russia ordered a halt to the war in Georgia on Tuesday, after five days of air and land attacks that sent Georgia's army into headlong retreat and left towns, military bases and homes in the U.S. ally smoldering. Georgia insisted that Russian forces were still bombing and shelling.
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Despite the televised order by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, Russia launched an offensive Tuesday in the Kodori Gorge, the only part of the breakaway region of Abkhazia still under Georgian control, sending in tanks, armored personnel carriers and artillery.

And hours before the order, Russian jets bombed the crossroads city of Gori, near the separatist region of South Ossetia. Gori's post office and university were burning Tuesday, but the city was all but deserted after most remaining residents and Georgian soldiers fled Monday ahead of a feared Russian onslaught.

In Moscow, Medvedev said Georgia had been punished enough for its attack on South Ossetia. Georgia launched an offensive late Thursday to regain control over the separatist province, which has close ties to Russia.

"The aggressor has been punished and suffered very significant losses. Its military has been disorganized," Medvedev said.

Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, speaking before a crowd of thousands at a Tbilisi square, said the invasion was not because Russia wanted control of the breakaway regions.

"They just don't want freedom and that's why they want to stamp on Georgia and destroy it," he said, as red and white Georgian fluttered.

Tens of thousands of terrified residents have fled the fighting — South Ossetians north to Russia, and Georgians west toward the capital of Tbilisi and the country's Black Sea coast.

Both sides have traded accusations of genocide.

Russia has accused Georgia of killing more than 2,000 people, mostly civilians, in the separatist province of South Ossetia. The claim couldn't be independently confirmed, but witnesses who fled the area over the weekend said hundreds had died.

Many Georgians also have been killed in the fighting and on Tuesday, the Georgian security council said it filed a lawsuit in the International Court of Justice for alleged ethnic cleansing. The overall death toll was expected to rise because large areas of Georgia were still too dangerous for journalists to enter and see the true scope of the damage.

"It feels like an annexed country," said Lasha Margiana, the local administrator in one of the villages in the Kodori Gorge, where fleeing Georgians said the entire population had abandoned their homes.

Medvedev assailed the West for supporting Georgia in the conflict: "International law doesn't envision double standards."

In Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian provincial capital now under Russian control, the body of a Georgian soldier lay in the street along with debris. A poster hanging nearby showed Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and the slogan "Say yes to peace and stability" as South Ossetian separatist fighters launched rockets at a Georgian plane soaring overhead. Broken glass and other debris littered the ground.

"If there are any emerging hotbeds of resistance or any aggressive actions, you should take steps to destroy them," Medvedev ordered his defense minister at a televised Kremlin meeting.

Russia's foreign minister called for Saakashvili to resign. Medvedev said Georgia must pull its troops from the two Russian-backed breakaway provinces and allow them to decide whether they want to remain part of Russia.

"Ossetians and Abkhaz must respond to that question taking their history into account, including what happened in the past few days," Medvedev said grimly.

Thousands of Georgians poured out their support for their president at a rally in Tbilisi, crowding a main square and nearby streets as far as the eye could see and holding aloft fluttering red-and-white Georgian flags.

Georgia, which is pushing for NATO membership, borders the Black Sea between Turkey and Russia and was ruled by Moscow for most of the two centuries preceding the 1991 breakup of the Soviet Union. South Ossetia and Abkhazia have run their own affairs without international recognition since fighting to split from Georgia in the early 1990s.

Both separatist provinces are backed by Russia, which appears open to absorbing them.

Medvedev said Tuesday that Russian peacekeepers will stay in both South Ossetia and Abkhazia; Saakashvili said his government will officially designate Russian peacekeepers in those breakaway provinces as occupying forces.

The Russian onslaught angered the West and drew tough words from President Bush, but some Georgians are disappointed that the U.S. did not intervene to protect its tiny ally.

"I'd like to think the words really do matter," U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State Matthew Bryza said Tuesday in Tbilisi.

Bryza declined to say if the U.S. would provide military support in the event that Russia expands its operations: "I hope we'll never come to the question of what we do if Russia refuses to observe international law."

Georgia sits on a strategic oil pipeline carrying Caspian crude to Western markets bypassing Russia, has long been a source of contention between the West and a resurgent Russia, the dominant energy supplier to Europe. The British oil company BP shut down one of three Georgian pipelines as a precaution, although the company said it had no evidence the pipelines had suffered damage.

In villages around the South Ossetian provincial capital, separatist fighters reportedly were setting fire to Georgian houses and searching for hidden Georgian fighters.

An AP photographer in the village of Ruisi near South Ossetia saw fresh damage from a Russian air raid that locals said came just 30 minutes before Medvedev's televised statement.

Residents said three villagers were killed and another five wounded when a Russian warplane raided the village. One slain victim, 77-year old Amiran Vardzelashvili, was struck by a fragment in the heart while was working in a field.

The Georgian government said another nearby village, Sakorinto, also was bombed after Medvedev announcing a halt to fighting, as was an ambulance in the Black Sea province of Adzharia.

The U.N. and NATO called meetings Tuesday to deal with the conflict, while Poland's president and the leaders of four former Soviet republics flew to Georgia for a meeting of solidarity with Saakashvili.

"The Russian state has once again shown its face, its true face," said Poland's Lech Kaczynski, who was being joined by counterparts from Lithuania, Estonia, Ukraine and Latvia.

But he said it was "good news" that Medvedev ordered a halt to military action.

At the White House on Monday, Bush had demanded that Russia end a "dramatic and brutal escalation" of violence in Georgia, agree to an immediate cease-fire and accept international mediation.

"Russia has invaded a sovereign neighboring state and threatens a democratic government elected by its people. Such an action is unacceptable in the 21st century," Bush said in a televised statement.

Georgia says Russia bombed after order to halt war
~~~~~

Maybe things are winding down. I guess we'll know in a few weeks where this is heading.......

[Soldier4Christ]

Sounds like BIG trouble.

Are these ships due to arrive around the August 22nd "ImANutJob' announcement about their nuclear capabilites?

Exactly when they are to arrive is not known for sure. Considering the location of most of these ships, which participated in a recent allied exercise, there arrival in the gulf will most likely be well be well before Aug 22nd. In fact I surmise that some of them are already arriving there as we speak.

Some more information on this.

The US Naval forces being assembled include the following:

Carrier Strike Group Nine
USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN72) nuclear powered supercarrier
with its Carrier Air Wing Two
Destroyer Squadron Nine:
USS Mobile Bay (CG53) guided missile cruiser
USS Russell (DDG59) guided missile destroyer
USS Momsen (DDG92) guided missile destroyer
USS Shoup (DDG86) guided missile destroyer
USS Ford (FFG54) guided missile frigate
USS Ingraham (FFG61) guided missile frigate
USS Rodney M. Davis (FFG60) guided missile frigate
USS Curts (FFG38) guided missile frigate
Plus one or more nuclear hunter-killer submarines

Peleliu Expeditionary Strike Group
USS Peleliu (LHA-5) a Tarawa-class amphibious assault carrier
USS Pearl Harbor (LSD52) assult ship
USS Dubuque (LPD8) assult ship/landing dock
USS Cape St. George (CG71) guided missile cruiser
USS Halsey (DDG97) guided missile destroyer
USS Benfold (DDG65) guided missile destroyer

Carrier Strike Group Two
USS Theodore Roosevelt (DVN71) nuclear powered supercarrier
with its Carrier Air Wing Eight
Destroyer Squadron 22
USS Monterey (CG61) guided missile cruiser
USS Mason (DDG87) guided missile destroyer
USS Nitze (DDG94) guided missile destroyer
USS Sullivans (DDG68) guided missile destroyer

USS Springfield (SSN761) nuclear powered hunter-killer submarine

IWO ESG ~ Iwo Jima Expeditionary Strike Group
USS Iwo Jima (LHD7) amphibious assault carrier
with its Amphibious Squadron Four
and with its 26th Marine Expeditionary Unit
USS San Antonio (LPD17) assault ship
USS Velia Gulf (CG72) guided missile cruiser
USS Ramage (DDG61) guided missile destroyer
USS Carter Hall (LSD50) assault ship
USS Roosevelt (DDG80) guided missile destroyer

USS Hartfore (SSN768) nuclear powered hunter-killer submarine

Carrier Strike Group Seven
USS Ronald Reagan (CVN76) nuclear powered supercarrier
with its Carrier Air Wing 14
Destroyer Squadron 7
USS Chancellorsville (CG62) guided missile cruiser
USS Howard (DDG83) guided missile destroyer
USS Gridley (DDG101) guided missile destroyer
USS Decatur (DDG73) guided missile destroyer
USS Thach (FFG43) guided missile frigate
USNS Rainier (T-AOE-7) fast combat support ship

Also likely to join the battle armada:

UK Royal Navy HMS Ark Royal Carrier Strike Group with assorted guided missile destroyers and frigates, nuclear hunter-killer submarines and support ships

French Navy nuclear powered hunter-killer submarines (likely the Amethyste and perhaps others), plus French Naval Rafale fighter jets operating off of the USS Theodore Roosevelt as the French Carrier Charles de Gaulle is in dry dock, and assorted surface warships

Various other US Navy warships and submarines and support ships. The following USN ships took part (as the "enemy" forces) in Operation Brimstone and several may join in:

USS San Jacinto (CG56) guided missile cruiser
USS Anzio (CG68) guided missile cruiser
USS Normandy (CG60) guided missile cruiser
USS Carney (DDG64) guided missile destroyer
USS Oscar Austin (DDG79) guided missile destroyer
USS Winston S. Churchill (DDG81) guided missile destroyer
USS Carr (FFG52) guided missile frigate

The USS Iwo Jima and USS Peleliu Expeditionary Strike Groups have USMC Harrier jump jets and an assortment of assault and attack helicopters. The Expeditionary Strike Groups have powerful USMC Expeditionary Units with amphibious armor and ground forces trained for operating in shallow waters and in seizures of land assets, such as Qeshm Island (a 50 mile long island off of Bandar Abbas in the Gulf of Hormuz and headquarters of the Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps).

It is also to be noted that some sources are saying that President Bush was aware of the action that Georgia had planned with South Ossetia in advance of that action and had sanctioned this move in conjunction with the build-up in the Persian Gulf.

[Barbara]

OK, I'm trying not to over-react, but this sounds HUGE!

With a 'problem' with Georgia and Russia, the possibility that Bush knew about the Georgian action with South Ossetia, the shear number of forces being deployed in the direction of the Middle East, the previous announcement of the August 22nd disclosure by the Iranian leader, the recent threat from Bin Laden to bomb 7 US cities - I've gotta say this is looking like it could get way out of control! (Maybe even shades of Isaiah 17?)

We're praying for the peace of Jerusalem!

(But I'm not going to over-react...)

[Soldier4Christ]

OK, I'm trying not to over-react, but this sounds HUGE!

(But I'm not going to over-react...)

That is some excellent advice for us all. Many are calling this an extension on the Cold War. Let us all keep in mind that many times during the Cold War we strutted our stuff like peacocks. In Military terms it is called "a show of force". A tactic that has always been quite effective in the past. It is saying be peaceful and work things out and I'm big enough to make you do so. As with any Military action there is always the possibility of things getting out of control, especially when dealing with some wackos that think they can take anyone down no matter what their size and just plain don't care about human lives. Those of us that read our Bibles already know how things will go. We may not know all of the specifics but we have a very good idea. We also know how things will end, Praise God.

[Shammu]

Those of us that read our Bibles already know how things will go. We may not know all of the specifics but we have a very good idea. We also know how things will end, Praise God.

AMEN!!

[Soldier4Christ]

Bush sends US troops to Georgia


The US is sending troops to embattled Georgia in the form of a humanitarian aid exercise, President George Bush said.

Mr Bush said military planes would deliver supplies in a move which would put American forces in the heart of the region.

The president said he was concerned that Russia might be violating the ceasefire in Georgia and he expected all Russian forces to withdraw.

He is also sending Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice to Paris for talks with EU peacemakers and then to Georgia to express solidarity with the democratically elected government there. Mr Bush said he strongly supported France's efforts to broker an end to the fighting.

He said the massive US humanitarian effort was already in progress and would involve US Naval forces as well as aircraft.

A C-17 military cargo plane loaded with supplies was on the way, and Mr Bush said that Russia must ensure that "all lines of communication and transport, including seaports, roads and airports," remain open to let deliveries and civilians through.

"To begin to repair the damage to its relations with the United States, Europe and other nations, and to begin restoring its place in the world, Russia must keep its word and act to end this crisis," he said.

The US intervention came after Russian troops and paramilitaries rolled into the strategic Georgian city of Gori smashing the truce designed to end the conflict that has uprooted 100,000 people and scarred the Georgian landscape.

Georgian officials said the town of Gori, which sits on Georgia's main east-west road, was looted and bombed by the Russians.

To the west separatists in Abkahzian backed by Russian military pushed out Georgian troops and even moved into Georgian territory itself, planting a flag over the Inguri River.

[Soldier4Christ]

It has been rumored that Russian troops started this war dressed as Georgian Troops and attacking individuals in South Ossetia. I would believe this to be entirely possible. It is a tactic that has been used by Russia more than once. With the manner that Russia is violating a cease fire, refusing to stand down, and instead are still moving on the capitol of Georgia it is just evidence of what Russia's intent was from the very start.

The old Russia is back in full swing.

[Shammu]

It has been rumored that Russian troops started this war dressed as Georgian Troops and attacking individuals in South Ossetia. I would believe this to be entirely possible. It is a tactic that has been used by Russia more than once. With the manner that Russia is violating a cease fire, refusing to stand down, and instead are still moving on the capitol of Georgia it is just evidence of what Russia's intent was from the very start.

The old Russia is back in full swing.

And carrying a very big grudge, against the former U.S.S.R. Republics.

I was looking, formulating a battle plan (just to see the strategic values involved). With Russia having a naval base in Syria, the former Republics, north of Israel, support would be easy to resupply, Gog and Magog. The only thing I was lacking was a reason. but Russia doesn't need a reason. The Bible says Russia will attack. And attack they will, on God's time, not mans time.

Ezekiel 38:14-16 Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it? 15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: 16 And thou shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

Ezekiel 38:1-6 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, 2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, 3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:  4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: 5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: 6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

The nations cited below, from the above verses are associated with their Old Testament predecessors, but they all represent nations that exist today. Long before Russia became a world power, biblical scholars identified Magog as the nation of Russia and Gog as the ruler of Russia. The other nations referenced above are identified below, with the original Hebrew listed first, followed by its modern English equivalent....

Magog, Meshech, and Tubal = Russia
Persia = Iran
Cush = Ethiopia
Put = Libya
Gomer = Turkey
Beth-togarmah = Turkey, Armenia, and the Turkish-speaking people of Asia Minor.

Ezekiel 38:17-23 hus saith the Lord GOD; Art thou he of whom I have spoken in old time by my servants the prophets of Israel, which prophesied in those days many years that I would bring thee against them? 18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. 19 For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; 20 So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. 21 And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.  22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 23 Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

The invasion of Israel will trigger an earthquake so strong every living creature on the face of the earth will tremble in God’s presence. The invading armies will be totally annihilated. God will cause them to turn on each other while striking them with plagues, torrential rain, hail, fire, and burning sulfur. As a result of this awesome display, the world will wake up to God’s existence. No longer will people be able to deny the existence of the Almighty, for it will be abundantly clear who intervened to save Israel. But this opens the stage for the anti-christ to enter. Where he will rule the world, till Jesus returns for Armageddon.

Ezekiel 39:7-8 So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel. 8 Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

God has made it definitively clear that this judgment against Gog will happen just as He has said. He will no longer tolerate the desecration of His nation, and at a time unknown to us, this event will occur just as He has promised. When God strikes down the enemies of Israel, their weapons of war will litter the landscape of the Holy Land. The destruction of these invading armies will be so vast it will change the topography of the land. So many dead bodies will litter the landscape that it will take seven months to bury all the dead, even with the help of every citizen in Israel!!

[Soldier4Christ]

And carrying a very big grudge, against the former U.S.S.R. Republics.

I was looking, formulating a battle plan (just to see the strategic values involved). With Russia having a naval base in Syria, the former Republics, north of Israel, support would be easy to resupply, Gog and Magog. The only thing I was lacking was a reason. but Russia doesn't need a reason. The Bible says Russia will attack. And attack they will, on God's time, not mans time.

Evil never needs anymore of a reason than just that ... being evil.

[Shammu]

Evil never needs anymore of a reason than just that ... being evil.

You know it, and I know it brother. I was trying to explain to our guest that read the posts.

[Soldier4Christ]

Russia Threatens Nuclear Attack On Poland Over US Missile Shield Deal

Only 24 hours after the weapons agreement was signed Russia’s deputy chief of staff warned Poland “is exposing itself to a strike 100 per cent”.

General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said that any new US assets in Europe could come under Russian nuclear attack with his forces targeting “the allies of countries having nuclear weapons”.

He told Russia’s Interfax news agency: “By hosting these, Poland is making itself a target. This is 100 per cent certain. It becomes a target for attack. Such targets are destroyed as a first priority.”

Russia’s nuclear rhetoric marks an intense new phase in the war of words over Georgia. The Caucasus conflict has spiralled into a Cold War style confrontation between Moscow and Washington in less than a week.

The stand off between the two cold War powers was underlined by Russian president Dmitry Medvedev, who dismissed US claims that the silo is a deterrent against ‘rogue states’ like Iran as “a fairy tale”. He told reporters at the Black Sea resort of Sochi: “The deployment of new missile defence facilities in Europe is aimed against the Russian Federation.”

President George W. Bush in a brief but pointed statement earlier in the day said: “The Cold War is over… Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century.”

[HisDaughter]

Russia Threatens Nuclear Attack On Poland Over US Missile Shield Deal

Only 24 hours after the weapons agreement was signed Russia’s deputy chief of staff warned Poland “is exposing itself to a strike 100 per cent”.

General Anatoly Nogovitsyn said that any new US assets in Europe could come under Russian nuclear attack with his forces targeting “the allies of countries having nuclear weapons”.

He told Russia’s Interfax news agency: “By hosting these, Poland is making itself a target. This is 100 per cent certain. It becomes a target for attack. Such targets are destroyed as a first priority.”

Russia’s nuclear rhetoric marks an intense new phase in the war of words over Georgia. The Caucasus conflict has spiralled into a Cold War style confrontation between Moscow and Washington in less than a week.

The stand off between the two cold War powers was underlined by Russian president Dmitry Medvedev, who dismissed US claims that the silo is a deterrent against ‘rogue states’ like Iran as “a fairy tale”. He told reporters at the Black Sea resort of Sochi: “The deployment of new missile defence facilities in Europe is aimed against the Russian Federation.”

President George W. Bush in a brief but pointed statement earlier in the day said: “The Cold War is over… Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century.”

"Does that mean we're not friends anymore?".......Val Kilmer in 'Tombstone'.

[Barbara]

I think YOU hit the nail on the head this time, grammyluv!!

[Barbara]

Some more on recent developments from Bill Koenig:

Persian Gulf

The winds of war?...DEBKAfile's military sources note that the arrival of the three new American flotillas will raise to five the number of US strike forces in Middle East waters - an unprecedented build up since the crisis erupted over Iran's nuclear program.

The vast naval and air strength consists of more than 40 warships and submarines, some of the latter nuclear armed, opposite the Islamic republic, a concentration last seen just before the US invasion of Iraq in 2003.

Connecting the Dots - Russian Invasion of Georgia May Have Prophetic Implications

by Bill Wilson, KIN Senior Analyst

The Russian invasion of Georgia appears on the surface to be one of revenge and regional politics. In peeling off the layers of stated reasons for the harsh military action, however, enmity is found between Russia and Israel that could have prophetic significance.

Russia's flexing of it's military muscle for the first time this century by swiftly dispatching fire power in the sovereign nation of Georgia brings it ever closer to the Ezekiel 38 prophecy where Gog, modern day Russia, ascends on Israel like "a cloud to cover the land."

What many do not know is that Israel will be a key player in the Russian invasion as a result of incurring the wrath of Russia.

Russia says it invaded south Ossetia to stop 'ethnic cleansing' by the Georgia government. Not much is written about it, but most of the population there is Orthodox Christian with a growing Muslim minority. There seems to be no documentation that Christians are ridding the land of Muslims.

Likewise, there doesn't seem to be a situation yet where the rising Muslim minority is cleansing the area of Christians. And Russia has no history of invading countries to stop the persecution of Christians. Russia does have a history of invading countries over their valuable natural resources, such as oil.

The Repuplic of Georgia is a strategic crossroads that controls the gas and oil pipelines bringing product from the Caspian Sea region. Israel owns a vital interest in these pipelines and has been negotiating with Georgia on a project to bring the pipelines through Turkey to Israel's Red Sea port of Eilat. And Russia rejected an Israeli offer to participate in the project.

According to security analyst DEBKAfile, Georgia last year commissioned about 1,000 private Israeli military advisors to train Georgian armed forces. Russia has repeatedly demanded that Israel halt this military assistance to Georgia. And DEBKAfile reports that these advisors were 'deeply involved' in the recent Georgia military efforts against Russia.

Russia has shown by this ruthless invasion that it will protect its own oil interests irrespective of whether there are other sovereign nations involved. The foray into Georgia where Israel is heavily involved could be yet another prophetic step toward the Ezekiel end-time battle as it escalates growing ill will between Russia and Israel.

Russia has shown that it will spare no firepower to attack a sovereign nation over a minute oil issue involving Israel. What will Russia do over something incrementally greater?

Ezekiel 39:9 says the weapons from such an attack will burn "with fire seven years." But Ezekiel 38:23 also says that "God will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I AM the LORD."