Petro,
Your stand point in this discussion is becoming like shifting sands.
Jesus' physical people are Israelites, His spritual people are from all races. Jesus instructed his disciples to take the message to the lost tribes of Israel FIRST. If Israel is not important then why do they get mentioned in Revelation in such a SPECIAL way.
charlie,
Jesus' physical people (as you put it) that rejected HIM, died in unbelief, and as Caiaphas the high priest, put it;
Jhn 11
49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that
one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year,
he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;52 And
not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.Though He did die for the world, in the end, only those who placed there faith in Gods promises concerning Jesus, are those who receive the promise, this is one reason why they are referred to as the "children of the promise."
This is perfect example of what I have been pointed out to you.
The idea that men who died in unbelief and had rejected the promises of God in Christ once already, will be resurrected to be saved by Him, is not at all taught in the scriptures.
We were discussing physical Israelites of the OT. Not spiritual Israelites.
The nation will be saved represented in a remnant, in the end times, these are they whom Jesus died for.
Universalism - what is that?
It is the teaching some like the Jehovash Witness's teach, where everyone will un litmately be saved, when they get it right.....the teaching comes in different forms but has the same ingredients.
Many are called, few are chosen. True, but for what and for when. Do you know Petro?
Yes,
chosen to be heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ. (Rom 8:17) Heirs of Salvation. (Heb 1:14) Heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?(James 2:5) Being Justified by Grace made heirs according to the hope of eternal life. (Titus 3:7)
And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise. (Gal 3:29)
What are you thinking??
I suppose you also consider those who are not chosen are immediately damned.
Well, lets put it this way; Those who are not chosen are rejected and do not become children of ther promise, they cast into outer darkness, because they have refused the command to obey the command to repent and thereby rejected Gods offer of His mercy towards all who sin against Him.
Have I begun to get personal and accusatory with you Petro?
My next question was, is this a church you are strating with your wife??
My spiritual situation with my wife is perfect in God's sight, for where two or more are gathered in My name.....
Well I am not doubting this if you belogn to Christ, you have asked me, certain questions which I have answered, stating I ignored some, when I haven't, however you haven't reconciled the ideas you have posted, with the scriptures I have given you.
How is it, you say, those who have died in unbelief, will be resurrected to be saved, when they have already rejkected God and the promise? Especially when the following verse states;
[b ]And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:[/b] Heb 9:27
Square this up, can you, with your idea which contradicts the verses, shared with you.
Mat 8
10 ...............
Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.11
And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.12
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.13
And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. In your opinion, who are the children of the kingdom in verse 12, above as opposed to who are the "many that shall come from the east and west" at verse 11??
MANY - this is the crucial word Petro. Where do you find many who claim to be Christian, why in mainstream churches of course where else will you find them. How many non-believers do know that can stand before God and say those things. I am part of a minority, and I know others who have done the same.
I agree with what your saying, but how does this answer your opinion that unbelivers who have died will be raised to glory.
Most mainstream churches are tainted with ROME as most are just schisms of Rome. There is now at this moment in time a clamouring for unity with Rome by MANY denominations (demonic divisions) and if I am correct this even includes your Southern Baptist churches. Our Anglican church certainly wants it.
Look, it is great you have come out of these denominations, whichever one it was, but one must also, reject and leave behind, false teachings..
Petro I am going to challenge you to purge Rome from your belief system. This means to question who taught you what you know. What authority taught you and what were their origins. For I tell you the truth Augustine was a counterfeiter
just another servant of Rome. Protestantism only protested it did not break away completely. Sunday is not the Lord's day for example. I will leave it here for now.
I do not see augustine as one who has taught me at all, (as you can see I do not teach sinfull man has free will, in the general sense of the word, man can trust and obey)
Man can "trust" which is a form of beleif without commitment, but can never produce a saving belief (belief with commitment), this is the principle reason why I do not use the word "believe" as a product produced by sinners with regard to the things of God,
because "believe" includes commitment, the problem is most who argue free will are unable to distinguish between the two.
It is a mystery to them..
I simply reject most of what augustine, but do not discount all he ever taught.
However I am leary of any who Rome look up to. Pelagius was a heretic, yet his teachings ascended to the very seat of Rome, it was only by the effort of Augustine, that this man centered teaching was exposed.
Rome for the most part has always been semi-pelagian, though they would rather say they are semi-Augustinian (so as to sound more moderate in drawing the line between their teachings and Protestantism), the result of the Council of Orange where they struct a deal with the adherents of Pelgius.
But all this does not explain your position of UniversalISM.
Blessings,
Petro