Stock Market Crash Expected In 2008 To Be Worse Than 1929

[Barbara]

Hi guys,

Not sure if anyone has more info yet but saw on MSN that the Gov't of Iceland collapsed today due to the worldwide financial crisis. If this is so, I guess we can expect to see more of this in order to get us all used to the fact of a Global Gov't that will 'rescue the world'.

Also heard part of an interview by Megan Kelly of FOX News with a financial analyst that said '...the writing is on the wall' and that the US dollar is about to collapse. Don't know his name but got this from Bill Koenig:

"Jim Rogers, chairman of Singapore based Rogers Holdings, says investors should be 'worried' about the US dollar and recommended selling government bonds and buying raw materials, China stocks and the yen, ... "If I were you, I would be worried about the US dollar,' said Roberts, 66, in a speech at the Asia financial forum in Hong Kong (on the 23rd). The Americans are printing US dollars. The Americans are going to do whatever they can to revive their economy, even if it means desroying the US dollar. (Bloomberg)

Things are happening fast...

[Barbara]

Got the article on Iceland - here's part of it:

The Times
Jan. 27, 2009

CREDIT CRUNCH CLAIMS ICELAND GOVERNMENT AFTER 'HOUSEHOLD REVOLUTION'

Catherine Philip, Domestic Correspondent

The global economic crisis claimed its first government yesterday when Iceland's ruling coalition collapsed amid a cacaphony of popular protest.

The government of Geir Haarde, the Prime Minister, resigned en massed after days of mounting anger over the country's financial meltdown.

The protests which began peacefully after the nationalization and overnite bankruptcy of Iceland's 3 main banks, turned violent last week with the nation experiencing its worst riots in 60 years.

At their height, 32,000 people - more than 10 percent of Iceland's population - took to the streets of Reykjavik banging pots and pans in what came to be known as the 'Household Revolution'.

The final collapse of the government came after talks between the two coalition partners  failed over who would lead a new administration. Mr. Haarde, the leader of the Indepenence Party, said that he planned to seek a government of national unity with all parties in Parlaiment to lead the country into fresh elections.

"I really regret that we could not continue with this coalition," he said. "I believe that would have been the best result." Icelanders did not agree. The governments approval rates, 72 percent a year ago, stood at 20 percent last week.

Jubilant protestors celebrated outside the Althing, Icelands parlaiment, yesterday after the news of the governments fall. The country's future looks far from secure, though, whoever is next to lead it.

The new government faces a daunting task, including the repayment of a $10 billion bailout loan from the Intn'l Monetary Fund and foreign governments, and a bill running into billions of dollars to repay former savers with collapsed icelandic banks - among them thousands of Britons who took advantage of sky high savings rates.

It was such financial adventurism that led to Iceland's exraordinary decade long financial boom - followed by its spectacular collapse. High risk investing overseas by the so called 'Vikings', a hard core of aggressively minded businessmen, multiplied Icelands GDP twice over. At the same time, Rekjaviks popularity grew as a high end, boutique destination for European tourists...

When the Landsbanki, Glitnir and Kaupthing banks collapsed in October, thousands of ordinary Icelanders who had put their money in banking stocks found their savings wiped out . The Icelandic currency, the krona, lost a quarter of its value before it was removed from trading, and interest rates soared to nearly 20 percent. With inflation rising, Icelanders are finding it hard to to afford even the basics, never mind repay their mortgages..."

Shades of things to come??

[Soldier4Christ]

I just now saw the story of Iceland's economic collapse on WorldNetDaily. Yes, it does appear to be dark shades of things to come.

[nChrist]

I just now saw the story of Iceland's economic collapse on WorldNetDaily. Yes, it does appear to be dark shades of things to come.

I'm usually fairly optimistic, BUT NOT THIS TIME. The SCOUNDRELS, CON-MEN, AND RIP-OFF ARTISTS ARE RUNNING THE BAILOUT. Are we watching the ushering in of the Tribulation Period? Who knows? However, there's a huge number of other things going on in the world right now to consider also.

[Soldier4Christ]

California prepares to stop paying bills
Come Feb. 1, tax refunds, welfare checks replaced with IOUs

The state of California has run out of money.

Facing a $42 billion budget deficit, State Controller John Chiang told the Sacramento Bee he has already borrowed $21.5 billion to try to cover the state's checks, but by Feb. 1, there will be no more options left but to simply stop paying some of the bills – including tax refunds, welfare checks, student grants and other payments owned to California citizens.

"It pains me to pull this trigger," Chiang said at a news conference held in his office. "But it is an action that is critically necessary."

Federal law requires that many school and healthcare programs – a total of about $6.6 billion in California – must be paid, the Los Angeles Times reports, so Chiang has announced an expected payment freeze on $3.7 billion worth of the state's bills, most of it refunds owed to taxpayers.

But even with the freeze beginning next week, the Times reports, California will still fall $346 million short for the month of February, forcing Chiang to consider something only done once since the Great Depression: issuing IOUs.

Formally called "registered warrants," the state's IOUs consist of little more than a piece of paper that says the state owes a payee money, plus interest, to be paid at some point in the future.

The last time California issued registered warrants was in 1992, during two-month budget battle between then-Gov. Pete Wilson and the state's legislators. But after the state issued almost $4 billion worth of IOUs, many banks stopped accepting them as deposits, claiming the five percent interest didn't pay for the hassle of processing them.

The Times reports that state officials have already designed an IOU template for February and begun negotiating with banks to avoid a repeat of 1992's problems.

Beth Mills, a spokeswoman for the California Bankers Association, however, told the Bee that the group's members still have "a lot of technical and operational questions we're trying to get some resolution on" about IOUs.

For now, state officials are hoping that Chiang's promised payment freezes can delay the budget crisis long enough for Gov. Schwarzenegger and the Legislature to find a solution.

Among the $3.7 billion in payments Chiang has targeted to freeze include $1.91 billion in personal income tax refunds, $205 million in court operations, $122 million scheduled to help counties with welfare administration, $13 million in student aid and over $700 million in aid to various disabled and needy groups.

State officials also got a glimmer of hope last week when they learned that more than $11 billion of President Obama's $825 billion economic stimulus plan may land in California's coffers.

"This takes a big bite out of the state's budget gap," Jean Ross, executive director of the California Budget Project, told the Times. "It is better news than many of us had anticipated."

Assembly Speaker Karen Bass, D-Los Angeles, however, warned that lawmakers can't rely on Washington to fix the problem.

"We have to make really horrible cuts, and we have to raise revenue," Bass told the Times. "We are just hoping whatever we get will help us avoid deeper cuts."

If the cuts aren't deep enough, California may be forced to consider issuing the IOUs. Continued borrowing, Chiang said, is not an option.

"We are the eighth largest economy," Chiang said, speaking of California's rank among the world's nations, were it an independent country. But comparing it to other states, he said, "We have the 50th or we are tied for last in the credit ratings. We are a world economic power, but we have fiscal mismanagement in this state."

[Barbara]

  The whole world is runing out of money - and soon the money won't be worth the paper it's printed on! I'm amazed at the speed of this downfall!

Here's more:

EUROPE

A great ring of EU states stretching from Eastern Europe down accross Mare Nostrum to the Celtic fringe are either in a 1930's depression or soon will be...Each is a victim of ill-judged economic policies foisted upon them by elites in thrall  to Europe's monetary project - either in EMU or preparing to join - and each is trapped.

The result of subjecting ex-Soviet catch up economies to the monetary regime of the leaden West has been massive overheating. From Spain to Ireland to Italy to Germany to Latvia, deficits have risen and property values have fallen as currencies are devalued and wages are diminished. An EU debt union is being created, in breech of EU law.
(The Daily Telegraph, UK)

ARAB WORLD

Saudi Arabia's foreign minister, Saud al-Faisal and Arab League Secretary Gen'l Amr Musa warn that the Arab world is on the verge of collapse...Speaking at a joint news conference in Kuwait, the two said that the Arab world faces anarchy and an inner split which they attribut to two factors: The inter-Palestinian struggle and "Israeli aggression and occupation."
(ArutzSheva News Israel)

[Brother Jerry]

I know I am about to by some stock...figure something stable like Coke.... 


And if land prices keep coming down...may have to get that dream home on the Spanish Riviera, I would say French, but during the next war they will simply give up like they always do, and I do not want to be a part of that.

[nChrist]

Hello Brother Jerry,

I wouldn't want to choose these days. I have a small and managed IRA, and I simply told them no risk on the vast majority of it and low risk on I think about 20%. I give thanks that I asked for something this conservative because many retired people have lost nearly everything they have. I lost about 4%, but I was told most of it would go back up because of the extremely conservative way I wanted the account set up. It's just something to supplement the little pension checks when we have an emergency of some sort. Taking it out doesn't make much sense because of the taxes that still hit, regardless of how much you've lost. So, the only thing I know to do is ask that the account be gradually made even more conservative as some of the instruments mature. There's also penalties to pay when you cash in instruments that have not reached maturity, so there's a lot of ways to lose and not many ways to win. Just think, most of the funds that pay the pensions are in the same boat, so it's possible that many retired people are going to have a really hard time. We were in an income category where the best we could do was try to plan for just over necessities in retirement. Sadly, many retired people are in much worse conditions because of everything that has failed. The gross corruption is going to cause a lot of suffering and need, and I seriously doubt that our inept government is going to be able to solve much.

[Brother Jerry]

Yes and the thing to remember is that when it comes to IRA's, 401's, etc, you have not lost anything unless you take money out.  The market will go back up, it is just going to take some time.  But if you happen to have some extra money, Ford and GM are prime right now (both are less than $5 per share), and we all know they are not going under....  Most other companies are good for buying a few shares.  I even found one that was down to .01 and I bought 1000 shares...I hope that it is the best 10 bucks I ever spent

[nChrist]

Brother Jerry,

Some folks are trying to live off of what used to be IRAs, etc. I don't know what they call them when they're rolled over into something else to use for monthly checks. Whether it's tied into the market or not depends on whether there is still money there to write a check from. It's confusing because there are so many different kinds of accounts. I just know that some retired folks I know had to stop taking a monthly check or greatly reduce it. Some of my friends lost 80% or more of what they had, so it hurt them badly. They basically lost a big portion of their retirement income. In many cases, what they lost is gone forever. I've left mine alone and haven't transferred it over to a standard account. Most don't because that causes all of the taxes to be due at once. If you leave it alone, you only pay taxes on what you draw out. Many people are in the same boat, so a ton of folks actually did lose their retirement nest-egg they were planning to live off of. I know I didn't explain this very well, but I'm positive that many huge losses were not just on paper. They were real money that's gone.

[Brother Jerry]

I understand completely.  And some retirement programs that were not the 401's and IRA's of today are dramatically affected, which is one of the reasons someone came up with the idea of getting retirement out of the hands of the company and putting it into things like 401. 

An IRA/401 typically operate in the same way.  They use the money you invest and go out and purchase many yielding products, such as CD's, bonds, and such.  But a portion of that is also put into the stock market, usually mutual funds which are nothing more than people coming together to buy large quantities of stock.  But when you invest in the market wins, and losses, are all on paper until you sell the stock you bought.  If you buy a single share of say IBM for $100.  You spend $100, if tomorrow the stock drops to $50 then you are stock is worth $50 and not the $100 you paid for it.  But you are not out any money unless you sell that stock at $50, but if you hang on to it then it may or may not go back up to $100, or it may blow that away and shoot up to $200.  But either way it goes you are not out any money until you sell the stock.

Now what does happen where people do lose money in IRA and 401 that are currently in retirement and drawing on it.  Say you have an IRA that has 100 shares of IBM at $100 each.  You draw a check for $10 per month for your retirement on that.  And normally that was covered by your dividends from the 10 shares of IBM.  Now the market crashes and the stock goes down to $50 and the company suspends dividends.  So now in order to pay your next month of retirement your 401 has to sell a share of stock at $50.  You lost out on $50 right off the bat.  They will use $10 of that for the monthly drawing and use it for the next 4 months as well.  And if the price never changes then you also lost the $50 that you got from the stock when you sold it too, so you are out $100.  now you are only out 1% of your initial value, 1 share out of the original 100.  However often in the media they would say you are out 50% or more, which would be true if you cashed out of your 401 at the reduced rates.

So there is loss, and if I could survive without drawing on my retirement right now then I would suspend it as well, in order to maintain it's value.  However you have to do what you have to do to survive.  But there is going to be some more Rockefellers come out of this crisis.  I am blessed in that I still have a job and am contributing to my 401 and that I do have a little extra money to invest personally as well.  Because $1000 investment today will probably easily be $5000 in less than 5 years.

[nChrist]

Hello Brother Jerry and All,

Regardless of what happens, we are blessed as Christians. We really don't know what tomorrow will bring, but we belong to GOD.

We don't even know what the value of a dollar will be tomorrow, especially with our government printing and spending money we don't have. It could cost $100 to buy a box of cereal, OR it's possible that dollars wouldn't be accepted because of being devalued. Who knows what's going to happen?  ONLY GOD.

Bluntly, we've recently been given tons of hard evidence that our ONLY REAL TRUST should be in GOD. GOD'S Retirement Plan is out of this world and has no chance at all of failing. This is a radical contrast to the things of man that are always unsure and usually mixed with corruption. Obviously, there is no corruption in GOD, and the answer to every WORD that comes out of HIS MOUTH is AMEN!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 7:18-19 NASB  18  For, on the one hand, there is a setting aside of a former commandment because of its weakness and uselessness  19  (for the Law made nothing perfect), and on the other hand there is a bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

[Brother Jerry]

Amen to that.

[Soldier4Christ]

I see some other people that are starting to waken up to the truth.

Globalists see econ crisis
as excuse for 'new world'
Leaders in Davos bill meltdown
as opportunity to expand control

A call to utilize the current global economic crisis as a panic in which governments worldwide can move to nationalize banks is emerging from the 2009 World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

The forum's founder, Klaus Schwab, told CNN yesterday the current global economic slowdown is a "transformational crisis" that should be utilized to shape a "new world."

"Above all else this is a crisis of confidence," Schwab said. "To restore confidence you have to establish signposts that the world after the crisis will be different. We have to create a new world and that is what Davos 2009 will be all about – serving society."

Speaking from the Davos conference yesterday, Nouriel Roubini, New York University professor at the Stern School of Business, told CNBC the global banking system is "effectively insolvent."

Roubini estimated that the worldwide crisis in bad bank assets will extend far beyond the Collateralized Mortgage Obligation problem caused by subprime loans. He expects the crisis to include bad loans in consumer credit cards, car loans and student loans, as well as commercial loans that have been packaged into securities sold as assets to banks and brokerage firms.

Roubini estimated the bad asset crisis would amount to $3.6 trillion, about half of which he believes will be held by U.S. banks and brokerage firms.

Roubini called on the Obama administration to employ the "Swedish solution," in which the U.S. government would nationalize troubled banks, not just investing bailout cash but also taking over and giving management control to U.S. government bureaucrats.

Read the book that 15 years ago predicted today's bailout mania.

Roubini, a frequent guest on financial cable news shows, is known as "Dr. Doom" for his typically gloomy but often accurate forecasts.

In the early 1990s, Sweden nationalized banks but only after the banks had written down their own troubled losses.

Economists Christopher Wood argued in an influential Financial Times op-ed piece that the U.S. Troubled Assets Relief Program, or TARP, has failed to follow the Swedish model, in that the U.S. government has poured $700 billion of bailout into banks and brokerage firms without requiring the banks first to write down their bad assets and without the government taking majority control.

Joseph Stiglitz, a Colombia University professor and 2001 Nobel economics laureate who advised the incoming Obama administration during the transition, echoed Roubini's concerns in a CNBC interview from the Davos conference.

Stiglitz fears the U.S. Treasury and the Federal Reserve have used TARP funds to overpay for bad assets.

"The private sector would not touch these bad assets with a 10-foot pole," Stiglitz said. "It's not clear we have here a good deal for the taxpayers."

Arguing that "taxpayers have provided capital but have received no control," Stiglitz also contended the U.S. government should begin nationalizing the banks under the Swedish plan in which the private owners of the banks would first take the losses for bad assets, and the government would nationalize the banks at a much lower share price.

Stiglitz reasoned economic incentives dictated that private bank managers – if left in place after injecting TARP funds without government control – would "have incentives to pay themselves bonuses, to pay shareholders dividends and to use bailout funds to make acquisitions."

"We need to run these banks for our interest," Stiglitz said, arguing the Obama administration should move to nationalize banks.

"The government could not do worse than the banks themselves have done," he observed, insisting TARP bailouts made no sense unless the government ended up controlling the banks.

"You can call it 'conserving the banks,' if you want to use a nice term," Stiglitz said.

"But right now the government is paying too much for bad bank assets and ending up with no real control," he said. "It's not clear it's a good deal for the taxpayers."

[Barbara]

Yes, it's in the news more and more ... this new world order:

"Jan. 7 2009 - In an interview on CNBC, former Secy. of State Henry Kissinger said:

'Conflict accross the globe and an international respect for Barack Obama have created the perfect setting for the establishment of a New World Order.'"

It's all heading in the direction God revealed to his people 2,000 years ago.

This I found most offensive:

Jan 24, 2009

A sculpture of Barak Obama riding a donkey was led in a procession in Des Moines, Iowa. The sculpture was created by Matthew J. Clark.

Clark called the marching artwork "A Simulacrum of Hope: Simulation of the Triumphal entry of the Christ."
Source: WND