Bible Triva

[HisDaughter]

Now admittedly, I was stretching.  Now that I'm limber and ready to run, turn on over to Isaiah 22:18.

18 He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.
(King James Version)

I know it's just a reference to a ball being tossed (a foul ball at that), but isn't that what baseball is, tossing a ball...

Just a little tongue in cheek banter.
Sincerely,
The MangoMan

  Clever!

And now get ready because I'm winding up for the next pitch...

[HisDaughter]

What was the color of the cloth drapped over the ark of the covenant?

(Genesis, Exodus, Numbers)

[MangoMan]

Ok... I know it was covered... Exodus 40:3 and Numbers 4:5... sometimes the vail of the covering... sometimes the covering vail

I know that the Ark of the Covenant has also been referenced as the Ark of the Testimony.

I believe it was a symbolic physical resting place of the Spirit of God.  I'm stretching again.  God doesn't need a resting place.  The people of Israel needed something to for lack of better words, carry God in.  Today, that place is in our "hearts" or as some would say "minds".  Biblically I've been told the heart and mind are one.  Not the beating heart of course, although some could be accused of thinking with that.

Ok, this is like trying to hit one of Charlie Hough's dancing knuckleballs...

I've seen reference to badger skins... but I believe that is a secondary covering... to me there is a difference between a skin and a vail... difference in texture and weight...  Numbers 4:5-6 seems to support that the primary covering vail was overlaid with the secondary covering of badger skins which were blue in nature.

Here's what I've learned about the badger skins though... or should I say porpoise skins...

Our translators seem to have been misled by the similarity in sound of the Hebrew tachash_ and the Latin _taxus, "a badger." The revisers have correctly substituted "seal skins." The Arabs of the Sinaitic peninsula apply the name tucash to the seals and dugongs which are common in the Red Sea, and the skins of which are largely used as leather and for sandals. Though the badger is common in Palestine, and might occur in the wilderness, its small hide would have been useless as a tent covering. The dugong, (pictured above), very plentiful in the shallow waters on the shores of the Red Sea, is a marine animal from 12 to 30 feet long, something between a whale and a seal, never leaving the water, but very easily caught. It grazes on seaweed, and is known by naturalists as Halicore tabernaculi.
(Source: http://netbible.org)

To be honest the secondary covering makes sense.  If it were a skin or hide of a badger or dolphin, it would overall protect the ark better than just a vail.  I believe the vail acted as a buffer between the skin and the ark though.

Ok, I had a college professor call me a masochist... in a good sense... I seemed to take the painful way in working out problems... I believe I done that here, because I have yet to put my mental fingers on what the coloring of the covering vail is.

I have struck out on this one.  You'll have to enlighten me.

Whew!

[HisDaughter]

Ok... I know it was covered... Exodus 40:3 and Numbers 4:5... sometimes the vail of the covering... sometimes the covering vail

I know that the Ark of the Covenant has also been referenced as the Ark of the Testimony.

I believe it was a symbolic physical resting place of the Spirit of God.  I'm stretching again.  God doesn't need a resting place.  The people of Israel needed something to for lack of better words, carry God in.  Today, that place is in our "hearts" or as some would say "minds".  Biblically I've been told the heart and mind are one.  Not the beating heart of course, although some could be accused of thinking with that.

Ok, this is like trying to hit one of Charlie Hough's dancing knuckleballs...

I've seen reference to badger skins... but I believe that is a secondary covering... to me there is a difference between a skin and a vail... difference in texture and weight...  Numbers 4:5-6 seems to support that the primary covering vail was overlaid with the secondary covering of badger skins which were blue in nature.

Here's what I've learned about the badger skins though... or should I say porpoise skins...

Our translators seem to have been misled by the similarity in sound of the Hebrew tachash_ and the Latin _taxus, "a badger." The revisers have correctly substituted "seal skins." The Arabs of the Sinaitic peninsula apply the name tucash to the seals and dugongs which are common in the Red Sea, and the skins of which are largely used as leather and for sandals. Though the badger is common in Palestine, and might occur in the wilderness, its small hide would have been useless as a tent covering. The dugong, (pictured above), very plentiful in the shallow waters on the shores of the Red Sea, is a marine animal from 12 to 30 feet long, something between a whale and a seal, never leaving the water, but very easily caught. It grazes on seaweed, and is known by naturalists as Halicore tabernaculi.
(Source: http://netbible.org)

To be honest the secondary covering makes sense.  If it were a skin or hide of a badger or dolphin, it would overall protect the ark better than just a vail.  I believe the vail acted as a buffer between the skin and the ark though.

Ok, I had a college professor call me a masochist... in a good sense... I seemed to take the painful way in working out problems... I believe I done that here, because I have yet to put my mental fingers on what the coloring of the covering vail is.

I have struck out on this one.  You'll have to enlighten me.

Whew!

You have totally cracked me up this morning!    The way you write is like you are just a sitting here a talkin'!

NIV - Numbers 4:6 - Then they are to cover this with hides of sea cows, spread a cloth of solid blue over that and put the poles in place.

So the answer to the question:  What was the color of the cloth drapped over the ark of the covenant?: is blue!

Sorry it was so simple after all your hard work!  But thanks for putting a smile on my face!   

[Soldier4Christ]

Sorry it was so simple after all your hard work!  But thanks for putting a smile on my face!   

I'm rofl. 

Ok, I had a college professor call me a masochist... in a good sense... I seemed to take the painful way in working out problems... I believe I done that here, because I have yet to put my mental fingers on what the coloring of the covering vail is.

I think that I agree with him. 

It was a good scholarly attempt though and one that did bring us some good information.

[MangoMan]

Yes, it appears my attempts were snarled up in reading the KJV.  There's a website I like that has nine English versions that I can thumb between and have done so.  To my chagrin, the NIV does make more sense.  That said, I am amazed at what other Christian ministries have out there for reference.  I even found the Greek Bible online with study help.  I have had a semester or two of Greek a little ways back in high school, but alas I don't remember much for the website looks like Greek to me... duh!

I enjoy your Bible Trivia Ms. Grammyluv... and the occasional references to baseball, much to the amusement of the Charlie Brown fan.

Sincerely,
The MangoMan

[Soldier4Christ]

Not to cause an argument here but a little more on the badger/sea cow comments. The KJV does use the word badger and the NIV does use sea cow. The original word in Hebrew here is "Tachash". This was a kind of wild beast. It was multi-colored and therefore it is translated in the Targum (the Aramaic translation) as sasgona (which means) delights and prides itself in its colors . The Egyptian root t-ch-s means "soft-dressed skin". Keep in mind that the Israelites had spent many years with the Egyptians prior to the building of the temple for the Ark of the Covenant.

In the Talmud:

Rabbi Yehudah said: It was a huge kosher animal in the desert, and it had one horn in its forehead, and its hide had six colors from which they made the curtains of the Tabernacle.

Rabbi Nehemiah said: It was a miraculous beast that was hidden away after it was used in the Tabernacle. Why was it necessary to create such a beast? It is written that the curtains of the Tabernacle were thirty cubits long. And it is written that the skins of the Tachash that were used for the curtains were also 30 cubits long. What animal hides are 30 cubits long? Rather it was a momentary miracle that was hidden away soon after it happened.
(Shabbat 28a,b)

So we see the variation of different animals from the badger to goat to antelope to giraffe and many more to include an unknown animal that is now extinct.

It is referred to 6 times in Exodus, 7 in Numbers and once in Ezekiel 16:10.

[MangoMan]

First off, don't take this as argumentative.  I dig intelligent conversation.

I will point out that was a quote from NetBible, not MangoMan about Tuchash.  I highlighted it and gave them the credit.  If you disagree with them go for it.  I figure they have researched it thoroughly, but then to, we are human and subject to failure.

I am curious why a mysterious beast would appear out of no where, be instrumental in the creation of the tabernacle, but not be clearly identified in the Bible, and then suddenly go extinct.  I would think something of that magnitude would have deserved a mention in the Bible... the mighty leviathan did.

I tend to lean more towards the sea cow or dugongs as the indigenous people have called them.  The NetBible source believes it was a translation error that resulted in the use of badger instead of sea cow.  If I were to go with your references to a mysterious desert beast with a precious skin of many colors and figured in the Tabernacle, why would have it been used in the making of sandals?  Ezek. 16:10  Wouldn't that have been degrading?

I guess I also am curious why naturalists would have given it a name of Halicore tabernaculi.  Noting history, which is subject to human error, people remember or pass down important pieces of information.  Yes, stories change with time, some become legends, others just nuggets of truth.

I am also aware of the Jewish tradition to embelish a story.  Far be it for a rabbi to not partake of embelishing a story as it is passed down.

Again, thoughtful deliberation.
Sincerely,
The MangoMan

[MangoMan]

I have researched this further, and have found that there is folklore about dugongs being mermaids.  I would think that someone would have to be sick or drunk to believe that the ugly beast in the watter was a beautiful mermaid.  Yet mermaid stories have been around for some time.

A Dictionary of the Bible By James Hastings, John Alexander Selbie has an interesting paragraph or two about the Badger.  It sounds like this is a mystery, one we have just stumbled onto, but has been debated for some time.

There are probably better things to deliberate on anyhow.

Sincerely,
The MangoMan

[Soldier4Christ]

As you noted that was not your idea neither are these mine but rather the ideas f other scholars in the past.

One thought was, as your post mentioned, a single skin of a badgers couldn't cover the Ark. But if we look at the verse it states the cover was to be made of skins. That being plural means more than one so it could have been badger skins which were plentiful in the area and somewhat colorful also. Note I also mentioned the Talmud which is not necessarily always correct when compared to the Bible itself. My entire point was that no one really knows what animal this skin was taken from. It is not something that was described in enough detail in the Bible that we can tell today what it was and the Hebrew word tachash or anything similar to it is not currently used in connection with any animal that we know today. This same thing involves a number of other animals that are mentioned in the Bible and comes out to be different animals mentioned in different English versions of the Bible.

It sounds like this is a mystery, one we have just stumbled onto, but has been debated for some time.

This was my point also.

[HisDaughter]

What boy was sleeping near the ark of the covenant when he heard God's voice calling to him?

(2 Kings, 1 Samuel, Exodus)

[MangoMan]

I Samuel 3:3-4,6,8,10

Samuel

[MangoMan]

And the opposing pitcher stares down the batter, calmly chews his GUM, checks the bases to make sure Pastor Roger is holding to first and Dreamweaver second...

Who's on third?

Oh well, GrammyLuv, you're up!

Who was accused by a minister of sorts of being drunk in church, but responded in turn by saying "I have poured out my soul before the Lord."

(2 Kings, 1 Samuel, Job, Hosea, or Acts)

[Soldier4Christ]

1Sa 1:14  And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee.
1Sa 1:15  And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the LORD.

[Shammu]

Who's on third?

"I don't know"

The kids did this (Who's on first) at church 2 weeks ago.