What did the criminals who were crucified with Christ say?

[reslks]

First, please read Matthew 27:44, Mark 15:32, and Luke 23:39-43.  My understanding is that nothing in the bible contradicts anything else in the bible.  Now if that is true, why do Matthew and Mark not agree with Luke?  I've always heard the Luke version.  So, what is true?  I have asked many people I think know the bible and none have replied. 

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi reslks,

Welcome to Christians Unite forums. First of all we must recognize that the Gospels are eyewitness accounts of the happenings. As in all cases of eyewitnesses things are recorded according to what each saw and we know that each of them saw different portions of the incident and recorded it accordingly. Following is an excellent article on this subject that is quite accurate.

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Misled by tradition and the ignorance of Scripture on the part of mediæval painters, it is the general belief that only two were crucified with the Lord.

   But Scripture does not say so. It states that there were two "thieves" (Greek lestai = robbers, Matthew 27:38. Mark 15:27); and that there were two "malefactors" (Greek kakourgoi, Luke 23:32).

   It is also recorded that both the robbers reviled Him (Matthew 27:44. Mark 15:32); while in Luke 23:39 only one of the malefactors "railed on Him", and "the other rebuked him" for so doing (verse 40). If there were only two, this is a real discrepancy; and there is another, for the two malefactors were "led with Him to be put to death" (Luke 23:32), and when they were come to Calvary, "they" then and there "crucified Him and the malefactors, one on the right hand and the other on the left" (verse 33).

   But the other discrepancy is, according to Matthew, that after the parting of the garments, and after "sitting down they watched Him there", that "THEN" were there two robbers crucified with Him, one on the right hand and the other on the left" (Matthew 27:38. Mark 15:27). The two malefactors had already been "led with Him" and were therefore crucified "with Him", before the dividing of the garments, and before the two robbers were brought.

   The first two (malefactors) who were "led with Him" were placed one on either side. When the other two (robbers) were brought, much later, they were also similarly placed; so that there were two (one of each) on either side and the Lord in the midst. The malefactors were therefore the nearer, and being on the inside they could speak to each other better, and the one with the Lord, as recorded (Luke 23:39 - 43).

   John's record confirms this for he speaks only of place and not of time. He speaks, generally of the fact: "where they crucified Him, and with Him others, two on this side, and that side, and Jesus in the midst" (John 19:18). In Revelation 22:2 we have the same expression in the Greek (enteuthen kai enteuthen), which is accurately rendered "on either side". So it should be rendered here: "and with Him others, on either side."

   But John further states (19:32, 33): "then came the soldiers and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with Him. But when they came (Greek = having come) to Jesus, and saw that He was dead already, they brake not His legs." Had there been only two (one on either side) the soldiers would not have come to the Lord, but would have passed Him, and then turned back again. But they came to Him after they had broken the legs of the first two.

   There are two words used of the "other" and "others" in John 19:32 and Luke 23:32 (see Appendix 124. 1).

   In the former passage we read, "they brake the legs of the first and of the other." Here the Greek is allos, which is the other (the second) of two when there are more (see Matthew 10:23; 25:16, 17, 20: 27:61; 28:1. John 18:15, 16; 20:2, 4, 8, and Revelation 17:10).

   In the latter passage (Luke 23:32) the word is heteros = different (see Appendix 124. 2); "and others also, two, were being led with Him." These were different1 from Him with Whom they were led, not different from one another; for they were "in the same condemnation", and "justly", while He had "done nothing amiss" (verses 40, 41).

   From this evidence, therefore, it is clear that there were four "others" crucified with the Lord; and thus, on the hand, there are no "discrepancies", as alleged; while, on the other hand, every word and every expression, in the Greek, gets (and gives) its own exact value, and its full significance.

[nChrist]

First, please read Matthew 27:44, Mark 15:32, and Luke 23:39-43.  My understanding is that nothing in the bible contradicts anything else in the bible.  Now if that is true, why do Matthew and Mark not agree with Luke?  I've always heard the Luke version.  So, what is true?  I have asked many people I think know the bible and none have replied. 

Hello reslks,

This appears to be from the atheist's list of questions attempting to prove that the Bible is false. If so, you got your answer. We don't usually play that game here, but we do have most of those questions already answered on the forum. So, use the search functions. If you don't find one, we're not interested in playing that game because we have better things to do with our time.

http://www.bibleanswers.us/  also contains the answers to questions that atheists use to try and cause trouble on Christian Forums. The questions aren't new and neither are the answers.

Moderator

[David_james]

Hello reslks,

This appears to be from the atheist's list of questions attempting to prove that the Bible is false. If so, you got your answer. We don't usually play that game here, but we do have most of those questions already answered on the forum. So, use the search functions. If you don't find one, we're not interested in playing that game because we have better things to do with our time.

http://www.bibleanswers.us/  also contains the answers to questions that atheists use to try and cause trouble on Christian Forums. The questions aren't new and neither are the answers.

Moderator

No need to go hindering this person. What if the question is real? You just scared them away.

Also know that, most people don't use search.

[Soldier4Christ]

Brother David, You apparently didn't see the other posts made here that was required to be deleted. This troll came here simply to cause trouble not to ask genuine questions. If we did not have definite proof of that we would not have handled this in this manner. The person was not chased away but rather had to be banned.

On the search function. We do have many that come here that do use it and use it frequently.

[nChrist]

No need to go hindering this person. What if the question is real? You just scared them away.

Also know that, most people don't use search.

Hello Brother David,

All of the moderators share your same concern. Some people come to Christian forums for nothing but trouble. Three posts from this person indicated that was exactly the case with this one, and one of the posts was after receiving a warning. It's very rare for our users to know all of the circumstances about a problem, and that's a good thing in many cases. As an example, inappropriate posts are many times never seen by other users because they are deleted and the person who posted them is dealt with. Some of the examples of the past are horrible, but this one was just a trouble maker.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

[David_james]

My apologies then brothers.

May I suggest something though? Please make it absolutely clear that it is a case of a trouble  maker, because I am sure I am not only one who thought that.

[nChrist]

My apologies then brothers.

May I suggest something though? Please make it absolutely clear that it is a case of a trouble  maker, because I am sure I am not only one who thought that.

Hello Brother David,

I must be honest with you and tell you that we won't be giving the details of how we handle every problem user on the forum. We have the forum rules prominently posted in every area, and it's a well known fact that we enforce them. That's how we preserve Christians Unite as a decent place for Christian Family Use.

We usually don't share private information about moderators' actions with problem users. We make an exception from time to time, but it's really nobody's business except the moderators and the user involved. We do have a complete and permanent record of everything done here, and that's the sole business of the moderators and ADMIN. I hope you understand.

Love In Christ,
Tom

KEEP LOOKING UP!!

[ludwig]

hello everybody  the questions posed by reslks are interesting and though provoking.  the article posted by pastor roger is super.  i couldn't have agreed more. going to the greek source for the new testament is the way to do it. i never knew there was this apparent conflict.  thanks pastor roger

[Soldier4Christ]

You're most welcome but all thanks and praises belong to Him.

There are many supposed conflicts or contradictions in the Bible that people will point out all the time in order to attempt to discount God's word. These do not exist as the Bible does not contradict itself. What does exist is the lack of understanding and studying of God's word. If we but ask, God will give the understanding that we need according to His grace and will.

[ludwig]

amen and amen pastor

[Littleboy]

Amen Pastor,
Kick'em to the curb!
If people can't realize that these Books of the Bible were written at different points in time
and just because one Book does'nt put the same details exactly as another one, Does'nt mean it's contradicting the other ones!
Your Loving Brother Duane
P.S
IF they're finding contradictions, They must be looking for them?
God Does'nt Contradict himself, Mans Vain Imaginations does!

People like that remind me of the Pharisee's & Scribes ?'ing & trying to trick our Lord...
With that said,
Let's Remember what the Lord said:
Matt.5:
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Praise be to Our God!
 

[ibTina]

 

John's record confirms this for he speaks only of place and not of time. He speaks, generally of the fact: "where they crucified Him, and with Him others, two on this side, and that side, and Jesus in the midst" (John 19:18)

Pastor Roger.. just a quick question... which Bible version is this from? Thanks...

[Soldier4Christ]

The precise wording is taken from the interlinear translation of the Stephens Text. This is one of the texts used in the translation of the King James.