Homosexual marriages

[nChrist]

Hmmm, just noticing, onestar's post #75 was edited by bep, it says there.

Was just wondering, what did onestar say?  Just wondering...


   

Oklahoma Howdy to Symphony,

It was a quote from a user who was banned. Since the homosexual threads were reactivated, many of the older posts violate the current forum rules. I deleted those posts and removed quotes from those posts, primarily posts by users who were banned.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Symphony]

Thank you, bep.

Wow.  That's a chore.  Whew.  Hard work, bep.  


To go through and have to decide.  

[Bean counter]

Well syphony you asked for responses so here it goes.  I believe what you did was absolutly wrong.  Yes we are always to speak the truth but in LOVE.  The bible tells us that we should be ready in season and out of season to give reasons for what we believe.  It does not tell us to shove it down someones throat.  However if I thought it would work I would probable do it.  The problem is no one will understand and accept Christ if we try to stuff it to them.  The only way they can understand Christs love is if we show it to them.  
Homosexuals are the same.  They dont need us to keep telling them its wrong.  In their heart of hearts they already know its wrong.  We need to help them out of the sin that is destroying them.  If we can show how Christ will truely set them free they will turn to him.  
You yourself said you probably didnt look very loving.  Do you feel that your display would change a single persons view point or did you do it out of anger over the issue?  As Christians we need to focus our efforts on helping homosexuals personally and on the issue of same sex marriage we must keep ourselves fully informed and up to date.  The more we understand about the agenda the more we can do to stop it in its tracks.  Please go back and read my earlier post a day or two ago.

[Symphony]

Thank you, beanc:

We as Christians MUST come along side of gays and love them.  Not be nasty to them.  They are dealing with a powerful sin in their lives and understandable are suffering a lot.  A statistic you may find interesting is that over 90% of all women who call themselves lesbian were abused (usually sexually)by a father or significant male role model in their younger years.  Their homosexuality was just a bad way of dealing with a terrible wrong that was done to them.  Gay men have simular stats.    We would all do ourselves good to become more educated on these issues.  Knowing your against it isnt good enough.  We must be able to give reasons and that means more than just God said so.


Many of the meanest killers in the world, Beanc, on death row, in any number of maximum security prisons, started out similarly--as little children affected by various horrific abuses.   Using you logic, we shouldn't punish or curtail them?  We should instead just "love them"?   How would you suggest we go about that?


Slogans on shirts are very common, Beanc.  Are you saying that the stuff you see written on them is being "shoved down my throat"?

Other people seem to be free to wear shirts with things written on them--from the safe, like "Chicago Cubs", to, I imagine, the profane and obsene.   No one seems to be saying they're forcing that down anyone's throats.

But strangely, if I just write short slogans like what one star is mentioning, like a Bible verse,  then, all of a sudden, I'm forcing THAT down other people throats.


Hmmm


I fail to see how what onestar is doing is not being done in love.  She takes all the risk.  She hands them a tract if they ask.  

And don't children WANT to be told when they are wrong?

That's what some in the gay movement are literally screaming for--for someone to just tell them they are wrong.

No one--or very few, seem to be telling them that!

"Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them."  Ephesians 5:11  

I don't think onestar is condemning anyone.  Just because you tell someone they're wrong, doesn't mean you're condemning them.

Homosexuals are wrong.  They're as wrong as a three-dollar bill.

That doesn't mean I be mean to them, etc.  

But it does mean I confront it.

Thank you, Jesus.

[Reba]

Symp,


 A man  sees a train coming down the track the "loving" thing to do is to quietly and gently walk up to the child setting on the tracks and ask her if she would like to please remover her now dead self.   The loving thing to do is grab the child or even throw her out of harms way maybe she even gets a broken arm..

'Loving ' means different things at different times. Loving can be as wonderful as CHOCOLATE or as healthy as brussel sprouts.

Christians has set back and done not much for too long. Could be this would be out of line for Bean and be just what you should do.  

[nChrist]

AMEN!

Sister Reba, that was a great analogy. The circumstances would dictate what true love would be. Yes, there are many that a sitting on the tracks with the train coming.

The reality is NOT an analogy, rather the blunt truth. Many are speeding on the road of eternal destruction. What would Christian love dictate, especially when they are trying to take on passengers for the trip?

They were to be stoned and stopped in the Old Testament. We owe them a rebuke and the blunt truth as a minimum. Anything less is doing them more harm and encouraging them to continue on their merry way, possibly at a higher speed.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[onestarfisher]

Well, we are to warn them (anyone) because the wages of sin is death. We are to warn them. Even knowing that most will still continue their headlong and willful rush to eternal death. There's two sides to it: attracting people to Jesus and His love, and warning people by talking about sin and it's penalty.

[nChrist]

Well, we are to warn them (anyone) because the wages of sin is death. We are to warn them. Even knowing that most will still continue their headlong and willful rush to eternal death. There's two sides to it: attracting people to Jesus and His love, and warning people by talking about sin and it's penalty.

Oklahoma Howdy to Onestarfisher,

This conversation could be compared to the old debate about corporal punishment of children. I don't want to shift the discussion to that old debate, but I would like to comment on it. Does a Christian give their child a swat on the rear in hate or in love? Who benefits from the correction if it succeeds? Is there a connection between Christian love and what a Christian does sharply or in the form of a rebuke? Yes, I think there is. Christian love is not always giving someone a hug and telling them they are doing fine. Christian love is also not ignoring something that is eternally destructive.

There is confusion and condemnation in what some Christians do by the world, especially when a Christian takes a stand on what is wrong and tells the blunt truth. I used the term "World" on purpose. The devil does not like it when Christians call sin "SIN". Those who are living in darkness may not like it either, but that should not be the concern of a Christian. In other words, Christian love must be tough love in many cases.

Love In Christ,
Tom  

[onestarfisher]

"Christian love is not always giving someone a hug and telling "them they are doing fine. Christian love is also not ignoring something that is eternally destructive.

There is confusion and condemnation in what some Christians do by the world, especially when a Christian takes a stand on what is wrong and tells the blunt truth. I used the term "World" on purpose. The devil does not like it when Christians call sin "SIN". Those who are living in darkness may not like it either, but that should not be the concern of a Christian. In other words, Christian love must be tough love in many cases."

Amen. It's hard to speak the truth in love. Know that you are swimming upstream, and there is a lot of opposition from, I hate to say it, other Christians. I would differentiate it though, from that Fred Phelps guy who has horrid signs saying "God hates fags" etc - that I totally disagree with, and can't see where there is any love in that. I think the right attitude to take is to picture them, or anyone else, for that matter, in some other sitution - like them sitting in the street and seeing a runaway bus headed right for them - what would we do to convince them they were in trouble? We would push them out of the way if we could, but what if we couldn't? Maybe we are in a wheelchair or something - THEN what would we do? We'd have to talk fast, it has to be their choice - and explain the seriousness of the situaton....(rather than trying to attract them off the road) what if the person got mad and said, there's nothing wrong with sitting in the middle of the street, and that's where I like to be.....who are you to judge me and tell me I'm going to die?? What, do you think you're better than me? I think the problem might be partly that we don't really believe the wages of sin is death - if we did, wouldn't we speak up a little more? I'm talking to myself as well here.....

[Reba]

For 10 years I worked maintance in a small water bottling plant. The best job i ever had i was able to use my 'troubleshooting skills! The working owners of the company were a 'couple'.  We talked... they knew my beliefs very clearly. The were not the in your face kinda guys. The gospel was shared often. They no longer own the company and i am retired they still drop an email. When i remember, i pray for them.  


I questioned  God and myself often  should i work here?  God sent me here.  Did God send me here? Why would God send me to such a place? I have prayed to be in His will sure He sent me ... back and forth

Dealing with people one on one and dealing with an issue are not the same.  I saw their fear, their cover up, very rich sad people. I dont know how to say this... the bible says this is sin so it is no doubt,  and knowing these guys personaly i 'know again' how sinfull and damaging it is. ( reba logic can be goofie)


Your thoughts One and BEP are right on...

[The Crusader]

Well, we are to warn them (anyone) because the wages of sin is death. We are to warn them. Even knowing that most will still continue their headlong and willful rush to eternal death. There's two sides to it: attracting people to Jesus and His love, and warning people by talking about sin and it's penalty.

Oklahoma Howdy to Onestarfisher,

This conversation could be compared to the old debate about corporal punishment of children. I don't want to shift the discussion to that old debate, but I would like to comment on it. Does a Christian give their child a swat on the rear in hate or in love? Who benefits from the correction if it succeeds? Is there a connection between Christian love and what a Christian does sharply or in the form of a rebuke? Yes, I think there is. Christian love is not always giving someone a hug and telling them they are doing fine. Christian love is also not ignoring something that is eternally destructive.

There is confusion and condemnation in what some Christians do by the world, especially when a Christian takes a stand on what is wrong and tells the blunt truth. I used the term "World" on purpose. The devil does not like it when Christians call sin "SIN". Those who are living in darkness may not like it either, but that should not be the concern of a Christian. In other words, Christian love must be tough love in many cases.

Love In Christ,
Tom  

Thanks Tom, Amen

Your friend and brother

The Crusader
<))><

[onestarfisher]

Amen Reba. I've worked a lot with homosexuals also - one of them was in upper management at our company also. Several were, actually. And also a lot of the staff. Come to think of it, the Jehovah's Witnesses were busy leaving the Watchtower lying around, the cross dresser was bringing in his photo album and carrying a purse, the satanists would bring in their bible, etc etc.

At work I left it alone - I don't think work is the place for confrontation or passing out tracts (unless you leave them anonymously in the restroom, or payphone hehe) (or unless you're financially self sufficient! ;-) - but more for a witness in your life. I wouldn't lie about how I believed, but I didn't initiate the conversations. I just wore a small cross pin that says "paid in full" or "Jesus is Coming" pin, off to the side, so they wouldn't confuse it with the popular neck crosses EVERYONE wears. They know already where you're coming from, and they basically steer clear. I think befriending them at work is the best course. Showing kindness, etc. That seems to work the best with everyone at work...
I used to take the bus with one gay guy who really was a neat guy otherwise, and he would never even take a tract. He'd just laugh and wouldn't pick it up.

I will say this about work though, (I'm no longer there, but not because of any persecution, I quit to do something else)....anyway, I have spoken up at work when the occasion was right. And I have given out tracts to different individuals only when it became clear it was really hard to get fired there.  If other people bring up some subject related to Christianity or issues, they all look at you in a challenging fashion sometimes you have to speak up. I've done that.

[Symphony]

onestar:  Know that you are swimming upstream, and there is a lot of opposition from, I hate to say it, other Christians

Yes. Especially if Christians from other churches start to say to their ministers, "Hey, I think they've got something there.  Shouldn't we be doing the same?"  Then their clergy get all jealous.  Clergy are intensely jealous of one another's turf.   If you start to have "success", with people turning from their ways, etc., my guess is that you'll likely receive flak from the churches as much as you will from other authorities or citizens.  In most communities, it seems, respective turfs are worked out historically far in advance between the competing religious, social and gov't bodies;  you walk into the midst of that at your peril, it seems.  They'll do to you what they did to Jesus--and some of them will do it in the name of Jesus.  That to me, is what possibly this gay thing could grow into--in the Name of Jesus.  That may be unlikely, as so far my feeling is most gays are immediately turned off by the mere mention of Jesus.  Still, I don't know that like Gibson's Passion may not in fact become a rallying cry for persecuted gays.

Yes, in any event, it's a narrow, razor's edge we walk, in all of this.  


Time mag. article:

I Do ... No, You Don't!
Why San Francisco's brash mayor is taking on Schwarzenegger and Bush over gay marriage
By CHRIS TAYLOR / SAN FRANCISCO

http://www.time.com   (for some reason I can't get the exact article link...)

onestar:  I think the problem might be partly that we don't really believe the wages of sin is death - if we did, wouldn't we speak up a little more? I'm talking to myself as well here.....

Yes, myself included, in western materialistic culture, we've been sanitized right down to the narcotics and morphine to help us escape any discomfort--all of our "inventions" to help us escape--from technology to creature comforts to entertainments---all screaming out at us that there is no death, or there is no hell, or there are no consequences.

So we become so comfortable we don't believe in consequences, fattening us all up for the kill.

Onestar, I wish there were a way to see your shirts.  Maybe you could get photos of them on here or something.

[Reba]

Well it aint a lightning strike ya dead this minute type of death. Man aways has some silly idea he can out smart God. But dead is dead.

[Symphony]

Queer eye for the Straight Guy, beating out all other programming, this evening.  (from drudgereport.com, this evening).

I've heard them recently on a family-oriented, big-city commercial radio station, advertising their "success".