Is divorce a no-no or a legitimate way out of certain bad situations?

[nChrist]

Hello Chocoholic,

You will remain in my prayers.

Sister, your relationship with your church is important, but not nearly as important as your personal relationship with JESUS CHRIST. Give JESUS CHRIST complete LORDSHIP in your life, and many things might work out over a period of time. Having JESUS CHRIST as the unquestioned central focus of your life makes other things much less important. Pray, pray some more, and keep praying.

Please allow me to be blunt for a moment. If the safety issues for you in your marriage aren't much more important than the brick and mortar church you attend, you are probably making a big mistake in trying to get a divorce. The same would be true for comparing your marriage to moving, leaving your job, etc. I'm not trying to be judgmental, rather I'm trying to understand the actions of your church. In the end, I wouldn't be your judge and neither would your church.

Let me try to explore what they might be thinking. First, you've been married for 35 years and have a lot invested. Second, there are many levels of verbal and emotional abuse from a low of simple annoyance up to physical imprisonment and threats to do harm or kill. I've seen them all, including the killing of whole families in 25 years of police work. If I was on your church board or a police officer coming to your home, I would have to know more to have an opinion as a Christian or as a police officer. If you were at the bottom end of the scale near annoyance, I would have all kinds of suggestions for you. If you were at the top of the scale near "life threatening" I would have a completely different set of suggestions. Obviously, my personal opinion would be based on where I thought you actually were on that scale. SO, I would ask you where you think your church feels that you were on that scale? That church board would probably use similar methods in reaching an opinion of some sort.

Sister, I hope that I didn't get too personal, but I did want to be honest with you about my thoughts. Many churches will have a big problem with divorce, regardless of how outrageous and serious the problems were. Many churches are more reasonable if they think the circumstances for divorce are reasonable. My little church fits into that category, but you should know that GOD is the ultimate ONE to be pleased or displeased. This is just one reason why divorce for a Christian should involve many and lengthy periods of prayer. HE is the ultimate ONE to please, not the church you attend.

Sister, I don't think that any rational church board would expect you to remain in a life threatening situation. However, their judgment of circumstances would change if they thought the circumstances were on the opposite end of the scale and they thought that more should be or could be done in SAFETY to save 35 years of marriage. In the meantime, pray and pray some more.

Love In Christ,
Tom

 

[Allinall]

Sister Chocoholic,

Hey Sis!  I wanted to comment on one thing and then, hopefully, encourage you:

Ahh, that does make more sense.  I had been thinking that MAYBE Jesus didn't go any further or be more specific because it might give someone an out for no good reason OR you know the saying "out of sight, out of mind"--well, MAYBE He didn't want to mention any other situations so as not to give anyone an excuse or loophole.  Am I making sense?

I find it very interesting that the only place you find this "out" is in the book of Matthew - a gospel distinctly written to the Jews.  This whole process speaks about the Jewish marriage tradition Sis.  The betrothal took place, but the "marriage" was held over until the groom came for his bride a year later.  In the meantime, he went to his father's house to prepare their home.  For 1 year, he would watch her to determine her purity.  If she failed, he was legally allowed to divorce her at that point.  After he came for her and they became one...it was a done deal.  Hence Jesus had no need to go further.  The Jews understood this.  We don't quite get it, and often misinterpret that portion of scripture.  Scripturally speaking, there is no cause for divorce in our mindset of the meaning.

HOWEVER

Note how Jesus presented this whole scenario.  He simply said in the beginning it was not so.  He merely stated that it was Moses who oked it, not God.  And yet...

...David put away his wife, murdered another woman's husband and married her.  God gave them Solomon.

...Solomon had a WHOLE BUNCH of wives.  God was merciful through this time.

From Jesus response, and the biblical example, I look at marriage and divorce from God's grace and mercy.  Wrong, yes.  But like you said, God's not abandoning you in this decision.  He continues to work and to bless those who go through divorce.  My parents and my wife's parents are examples of that.

That said, does God want you to continue being married and being abused? I'm not God, but I'd have a hard time believing that He'd want that too!  Regardless of the circumstances and your choices, God is working in you and will continue to do so.  He loves you and will keep on loving you through this.  We'll pray for you too!

Hopefully this instructs as to the passage at hand, and also encourages you. 

[chocoholic]

Re:  levels of verbal and emotional abuse
Everyone has their own opinion of what constitutes a certain level, the place where you draw the line, etc.  When you put 35 years into a marriage, and call it quits and it's NOT because of adultery or wanting freedom, etc., it's not a light decision.  As I said before, he was negative, pessimistic, critical, and angry--angry to the point that he would break things, throw things, put his fist through a door, get in my face shouting and putting me down.  There wasn't a day went by that he wouldn't be all 4 of those words before the day was over.  He was very critical and at times almost had me believing he was right, but he wasn't!  He would taunt me with things, tell me I was stupid, didn't know what I was talking about, etc., and it wasn't just lightly--it was loudly and strongly.  It's hard to describe unless you've been there.  I have a friend who is going through the same thing at the same time as me (not divorce, but the same problems with her husband). and what she tells me about her husband is exactly what I was experiencing with mine.  We know what each other was or is going through.

The church, as most relatives, friends, etc. does not know what my husband is like at home, and it makes it hard for them to believe he can be such an ogre.  He goes to a different church, and I have no id.ea how they're dealing with it because he is the organist there.  My church has only seen him a few times when he came to socials with me, and of course, he always has his false face on and is on good behavior, so of course, they think He seems so nice. .  Believe me, I prayed for many years about this!

[Soldier4Christ]

I think the question here is has he been like this for 35 years or is this something that has just happened in recent years? If it has just started in recent years then it sounds like he has a serious problem that he needs help with. It does seem odd that a person would put up with that sort of behavior for 35 yrs and then all of a sudden decide it is not a suitable life to be in.

[chocoholic]

He has been like this off and on our whole marriage.  I left him a couple of times early-on plus 10 years ago at which time I was gone for 16 days and filed for divorce then.  Each time I came back it was to unkept promises to get his anger under control, go to counseling, make some changes, yada yada yada.  When I filed for divorce 10 years ago, he even made a so-called re-commitment to the Lord, but that was short-lived as well.  Looking back, I think he was just putting on his best behavior to get me back.  I had stopped the divorce proceedings when we got back together, and between the two of us, we spent about $1,500 each on attorney fees.  Six months after I left and came back the last time, his true colors started showing again, blowing up in the car in front of our son's grandmother-to-be when we were going to the wedding rehearsal dinner.  That was so embarrassing.  Over the next 10 years, I kicked myself many times for coming back.  Now here I am spending that same amount of money AGAIN!   

No, this is not a new problem, just one that has gotten worse and worse.  I kept telling myself, it will change, I can do this with the Lord's help, and hang in here.  But it didn't change, and though the Lord did not stop helping me, it was affecting my health, and it was wearing on me every single day.  It was horrible.  I am glad I'm out of there! and will NEVER go back again.  I will NEVER marry anyone else either!  I had enough during these past 35 (would be 36 on 10/9) years to know I don't want to do it again.

[nChrist]

Hello Chocoholic,

You mentioned how the church thinks. I think that more than anything else we were trying to share why others have certain thoughts about divorce, especially churches. I'll pray that things work out for you.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Allinall]

Re:  levels of verbal and emotional abuse
Everyone has their own opinion of what constitutes a certain level, the place where you draw the line, etc.  When you put 35 years into a marriage, and call it quits and it's NOT because of adultery or wanting freedom, etc., it's not a light decision.  As I said before, he was negative, pessimistic, critical, and angry--angry to the point that he would break things, throw things, put his fist through a door, get in my face shouting and putting me down.  There wasn't a day went by that he wouldn't be all 4 of those words before the day was over.  He was very critical and at times almost had me believing he was right, but he wasn't!  He would taunt me with things, tell me I was stupid, didn't know what I was talking about, etc., and it wasn't just lightly--it was loudly and strongly.  It's hard to describe unless you've been there.  I have a friend who is going through the same thing at the same time as me (not divorce, but the same problems with her husband). and what she tells me about her husband is exactly what I was experiencing with mine.  We know what each other was or is going through.

The church, as most relatives, friends, etc. does not know what my husband is like at home, and it makes it hard for them to believe he can be such an ogre.  He goes to a different church, and I have no id.ea how they're dealing with it because he is the organist there.  My church has only seen him a few times when he came to socials with me, and of course, he always has his false face on and is on good behavior, so of course, they think He seems so nice. .  Believe me, I prayed for many years about this!

Most ogres appear nice at first.  I'm sorry you've had to go through this sis!  I'm praying for you and it looks like you've got a good thing going with this friend of yours that is experiencing the same thing!  I'm really happy for you there.

[chocoholic]

Hi, everyone, MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!

I know it's Christmas, but I'm all alone today and trying to pass the time by listening to Christmas CDs and surfing, so I thought I'd come back and do an update.

Several times my STBX and I talked and I thought we had an agreement to settle, and then he changes his mind about something.  We talked the other day and we verbally said that what we had just discussed was do-able, but he insists on talking to his attorney first, and SHE is the worst attorney I've ever seen and wouldn't recommend her to my worst enemy.  I think she's taking him to the cleaners by insisting on fighting every agreement we talk about just to get herself more money.  I keep trying to get him to understand that what I'm asking for is much less than the judge could award to me, and once the judge does that, there's no reversing it.  I don't know whether he thinks I'm making it up or what, but his attorney seems to be pushing him to take that chance and hold out.  Meanwhile it adds to both of our attorney fees.  I have a court hearing on January 11th regarding his pension, and we both have a hearing on January 18th with Domestic Relations.  The amount they assigned my STBX to pay me is over twice what I am asking for, and his attorney filed an appeal.  Well, that's enough details about that.  Just pray that my STBX will come to his senses and accept my proposal instead of holding out for the judge's decision.

I just want to get the divorce behind me so I can move forward with my life knowing how much I have to work with, and be able to go to a different church with the divorce over so there's no questions and people trying to prevent it.  Once it's over, what can people say?!

I have been attending a Bible believing church for the last couple of months, but do not feel comfortable with it long-term, and will be looking again this week.  I tried to share with the pastor, and all he did was shove Scripture down my throat, and not even truly listen to me or try to understand any of the other things going on in my life or comfort or encourage me.  All he wanted to do was know my STBX's name and where he lives so he could get us back together.  I thought that was very rude, uncaring, and showed he had no compassion for me as a person.  He was more interested in salvaging a marriage that has nothing left to salvage!  Then he told me one thing when he visited me and said another from the pulpit, and still another in an EM--very inconsistent.  He also seems very cold and reminds me very much of a former pastor with whom I had major problems after he misrepresented me and refused to admit it.  In addition, this church requires baptism by IMMERSION.  I was baptized (sprinkled) as an adult believer, and do not have a desire or feel a need to be baptized again by immersion.  Plus, they do not allow women to serve in church leadership except for teaching Sunday School.  That kind of church is not for me.  BUT I am a person who loves the old-fashioned hymns (and SOME choruses), but NOT the comtemporary music, worship bands, etc.  I know, that's another topic altogether and I don't want to get into it here.  I just wanted to say that this is one of the reasons I am looking for another church.  So pray for me to find a church home that accepts me and desires to minister to me even as I minister alongside of them, and that does not reject me or refuse to let me participate in ALL aspects of the church.  I love to teach SS, lead Ladies Bible studies, do children's sermons/object lessons, sing solos and in the choir, do the church newsletter and other secretarial things, and wherever else I can help.  I want to be able to do that in a "new" church.

I don't think I mentioned it in any of my previous posts, but In the last 2 years I've had 22 "stress factors" including the death of my father and mother-in-law 2 years ago, and in the last 6 months, the death of my mother, my pastor friend, and several aunts and uncles in between all these.  One adult son is across the US with my 3 grandchildren.  The other adult son has a girlfriend and is with her all weekend.  So I'm all alone on Christmas, and the last couple of days it has been really hard for me because the last 2 years since Dad died, Mom came to my home for a week over the Christmas week, and now she's not here at all.

Well, I think that brings us up-to-date.  MERRY CHRISTMAS to all of you!  Thanks for "listening" and sharing.

[Eva]

Hi Chocoholic:

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you!!! It may feel like it, but you certainly are not alone. I have a court hearing myself, with my soon to be ex, the day before yours.

I will pray for you as you go through this very tough time.   God will lead you each and every step of the way. Please continue to seek Him.  He is faithful!!!  He is also a loving understanding Father who knows our every need, even before we do.  Please find solice in His loving arms.

God uses the WILLING, and it sound like you are. Speaking from experience: Church service is important, but keep your primary focus on your relationship with Christ and follow where He leads.

Sorry to hear of your losses, I am sure you are having a difficult time.  God Bless and keep you.

Please feel free to share anytime, you have many prayer partners and friend here.

Love in Christ, Eva

[chocoholic]

PROGRESS!!! 
My STBX and I came to a verbal agreement and my attorney is drawing up the divorce papers.  Hopefully by the end of the week it will all be over (as far as the formality goes).  Then I can move on with the rest of my life!   
Please pray that everything goes smoothly and quickly so the hearing I was to go to on Friday can be canceled and that my STBX won't change his mind again!
Thanks everyone for your prayers!

[Eva]

PROGRESS!!! 
My STBX and I came to a verbal agreement and my attorney is drawing up the divorce papers.  Hopefully by the end of the week it will all be over (as far as the formality goes).  Then I can move on with the rest of my life!   
Please pray that everything goes smoothly and quickly so the hearing I was to go to on Friday can be canceled and that my STBX won't change his mind again!
Thanks everyone for your prayers!

Hi Chocoholic:

Thank you so much for the update.  I will certainly continue lifting you up in prayer.  I'd like to ask you to do the same.  I have court on Thursday. 

God Bless you!!!

Love in Christ, Eva

[faithgirl49]

Pastor Roger what should a woman do if her husband iabuses her or her kids? I knew a manwho abused hi wife whcih I saw one night in 1994. She was expecting their youngest child to boot.  She left him after many more years of emotional abuse. He refused to admit that he had a problem and was not willing to stop. He said she, not he had a problem
Faithgirl

[Soldier4Christ]

Hello faithgirl,

Welcome to Christians Unite forums. I do hope that you will enjoy your time here.

Abuse can be a very difficult thing. No matter how slight it can and usually does advance to a very dangerous situation especially when that person fails to recognize that they have a problem.

I am sure that God would not want us in a position where we are purposefully placing ourselves in harms way for no good reason. It is especially true when children are involved. As parents it is our responsibility to take care of and protect our children. If they are being harmed then we should do what we can to remove them from that harm.

[faithgirl49]

I am not in favor of divorce simply because a couple doesn't get along. That is what comprimise and Christian COunseling are for.
Faithgirl

[faithgirl49]

Hello faithgirl,

Welcome to Christians Unite forums. I do hope that you will enjoy your time here.

Abuse can be a very difficult thing. No matter how slight it can and usually does advance to a very dangerous situation especially when that person fails to recognize that they have a problem.

I am sure that God would not want us in a position where we are purposefully placing ourselves in harms way for no good reason. It is especially true when children are involved. As parents it is our responsibility to take care of and protect our children. If they are being harmed then we should do what we can to remove them from that harm.

Thank you for your warm welcome Roger.
I agree, God would not want us in a position of being purposefully hurt.  My cousin as well as her mddle son went through abusse. She divorced him and remarried.
Faithgirl