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Author Topic: Rapture season 2006/2007 facts & evidence *reactions*  (Read 8009 times)
twobombs
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« on: November 11, 2003, 04:55:52 PM »

Response on the thread "Rapture season 2006/2007 facts & evidence" can be placed here.
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Reba
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« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2003, 11:42:45 PM »

Your site branches out into some interesting stuff do you agree with the branches?
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Brother Love
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« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2003, 04:28:49 AM »

29th march 2006  Smiley

Brother Love Smiley
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THINGS THAT DIFFER By C.R. Stam
Read it on line for "FREE"

http://www.geocities.com/protestantscot/ttd/ttd_chap1.html

<Smiley))><
twobombs
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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2003, 04:07:31 AM »

If there is such a thing as "the gosple according to twobombs" then this should be 'it'.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2003, 04:09:23 AM by twobombs » Logged

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Tibby
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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2003, 07:22:35 PM »

Did I see the word Gnosticism in that post? No? Oh, look, here is it again: Gnosticism. Roll Eyes
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twobombs
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2003, 06:06:33 AM »

Why Should Christians Be Date Setters?

http://whatsaiththescripture.com/Timeline/Why.Should.Chirst.Date.html
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Tibby
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2003, 11:00:21 AM »

Gnosticism
Oh look! It is a bird? Is it a plane? No, it's Gnosticism! Tongue

That would be great, if the "Rapture" was biblical FACT, not a Theory.
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Jabez
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2003, 12:00:01 PM »

Matthew 24:36-51
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Psalm 118:8  1 John 4:1-3
Tibby
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2003, 01:08:13 PM »

Yeah, very good group of verses, but it only work to prove the rapture is real if you assume the Rapture and Second Coming are different events. And if you assune the one "taken" is the Christian. Who isn't to say the one take is the unbeliever? Notice the parable at the end of this verse. The one taken away is the wicked servant, not the good ones.
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twobombs
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« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2003, 12:43:57 PM »

Tibby: I'm going to argue about a measly 7 years, mkay ?

But not believing in the Rapture at/close to the 2nd Coming is definately "a bad thing" (tm)

Not believing that any heathen nation will live in the Millenium is "a very  bad thing" (tm)

Just as not believing in the 2nd Coming or Millienium; that is definately "a very, very bad thing" (tm)

« Last Edit: December 01, 2003, 12:51:31 PM by twobombs » Logged

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Jabez
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« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2003, 04:02:04 PM »

Yeah, very good group of verses, but it only work to prove the rapture is real if you assume the Rapture and Second Coming are different events. And if you assune the one "taken" is the Christian. Who isn't to say the one take is the unbeliever? Notice the parable at the end of this verse. The one taken away is the wicked servant, not the good ones.

I dont see that the wicked one will be taken?What verse?I beleive the Rapture and second coming are differents events.One thing for sure you dont want to be here for tribulation.
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Tibby
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« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2003, 11:33:13 PM »

Read the parable that is in the verse you said to look up. The last hunk of these verse is a parable. It talks about a two servants. He says you want to the good servant who takes care of his Masters things while his master is away (verse 46). In Verse 48, he tells a story of a servant who is wicked and treats his master property of his fellow servants poorly. The bible says the Master will return when we least expect it, and cut him to pieces, and throw him in with the hypocrites, where there will weeping and gnashing of teeth. I just dont see how this would relate to the rapture, if the good servant stays in the house.

Id hate to be a part of laHey-style Tribulation, too. Glad I'm saved Grin I dont think Jesus will hold a grudge, I rumor has it Paul was into amillennialism. lol j/k
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Paul2
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« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2003, 02:40:09 PM »

     Matthew wrote about the "Second Coming" of Christ to establish His Kingdom. Christ sends Angels to gather those who took the mark of the beast to destruction. Matthew was not writing about the Rapture.

     Paul revealed the Rapture to us, and told us that Jesus Himself would shout and call us to meet Him on the clouds, there were no Angels doing the gathering, according to Paul.

     The Jews missed the fact that Jesus Christ was to come twice, first as the Lamb, then as the Loin. They expected the Lion and missed the Lamb.

      Many in the Church have missed the fact that Jesus will return to the clouds above earth as the Bridegroom, to call His Bride, the Church to join Him on the clouds. Then after the Church has been in Heaven during the Great Tribulation and Daniel's 70th week, Jesus will return to the earth, to the mount of Olives, and fulfill all that Matthew wrote.

     Each Gospel has a underlying theme, and target audience, it takes 4 Gospels to reveal 4 different aspects of Christ. The Book of Revelation is really the 5th Gospel Given by Jesus Himself! The true title of the book says it all, The Revelation of Jesus Christ! Now back to the Gospels...

     Matthews Gospel was written portraying Jesus as Messiah and King of the Jews. Its purpose was to show the Jews that Jesus was their Messiah, and rightfull King. Written by a Jew, about a Jew, to the Jews. The prophecies are based around Israel, her Messiah and King. Matthew records the Second Coming, not the Rapture.

   Matthew- Lion- King

     Mark was written to the Romans, it was action packed, without all the parables. it portrayed Jesus as a servant.

    Mark- Calf- Servant

     Luke was written to the Greeks, very deep and filled with thought provoking parables. Luke portrays Jesus as a man, the humanity of Christ.

    Luke- face of a Man- Humanity

     John was written for believers, our personal Gospel with messages for us. John's Gospel portrays Jesus as God!, the Deity of Christ

     John- Eagle- Deity

     I'll bet your wondering why I used Lion, Calf, face of a Man, and Eagle. I'll show you...

Revelation 4: 7 "And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle."

      These are the 4 living creatures around God's throne, which just happen to appear in the exact order as the themes to all 4 Gospels. The same four aspects of Christ portrayed in the Gospels are portrayed in the four living creatures.

     And the first beast was like a Lion (Matthew- King), and the second beast like a Calf (Mark- Servant), and the third beast had the face of a Man (Luke- Human, Son of Man), and the fourth beast was like a flying Eagle (John- Deity).

    Matthew's Gospel presents Jesus as King of the Jews, The Jews are not Raptured, but endure the Great Tribulation and Daniel's 70th week, and that is what Matthew has written about.

                                      The Pre-Trib. View by Paul2 Cool






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Tibby
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« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2003, 05:36:48 PM »

Im not a pretrib-er, but interesting theory on the 5 gospels. I'll no doubt study more.
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sunodino
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2003, 10:48:51 AM »

First of all your entire discourse is based upon two premises both of which are not proven and theologically in error.

Premise one:  The Holy Ghost is the restrainer, and leaves the planet
My comments:
The restrainer is NOT THE HOLY GHOST. How can the Holy Ghost LEAVE THE PLANET? WHO THEN CAN BE SAVED? As in your Trib Saints theory? The restrainer is Michael who is in battle with the spiritual princes of darkness, Persia, Greece, Rome, etc.  The book of Daniel is the key, once unlocked all is understood.

Premise two: Tribulation and Wrath are the same, so, church leaves during great tribulation.
I quote from the web site: "This time also signifies the time from the catching away of the faithful, and the 2nd Coming.  The seven-year Great Tribulation will commence the day after the feast of Trumpets when the Bride has been taken away "to be with the Lord" (your emphasis)

Theologically, this pre-trib rapture is false teaching.  Neither Tribulation nor Great Tribulation is WRATH. "He that endures to the end SHALL BE SAVED
Matt 10:22
Matt 24:13
Mark 13:13  

And see Matthew 24:29b
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
This issue is cleared up in brilliant detail, Marv Rosenthal ( a messianic Jew) in his book "Pre-Wrath Rapture".  A fantastic discourse on this subject, as he has a magnifiicent understanding of the Jewish calendar and the Hebrew text.

wrath - Hebrew: 3709. orge; punishment:--anger, indignation, vengeance, wrath.

tribulation - Hebrew: 2347. thlipsis, thlip'-sis; from G2346; pressure (lit. or fig.):--afflicted, (-tion), anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation, trouble.

great - Hebrew: 3173. megas, exceedingly, great (-est), high, large, loud, mighty, + (be) sore (afraid), strong, X to year

Read the explanation Jesus gives of Parable of the Wheat and the Tares in Matt 13:37-50 particularly vs 39 and vs 49, 50:

39  The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

49  So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
50  And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.


Romans 5:9 "Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him."

If  you carefully read the Revelation of John and the 7 seals, you can see where the tribulation ends and the wrath begins.

Some of your discourse is pretty interesting, but I disagree with most of it, especially the Babylon theory, NEW YORK (??)

Again, the Bible interprets itself, the four kingdoms and their associated animal icons have not changed, the significance of Iraq is lost in this web site explanation.  

Oh, by the way, your vision(??) Yikes!

sunodino -
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Sunodino travails...
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15
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