SPEAKING IN TONGUES

[rapha777]

Just a quick response!

Some messages in tongues are like those in Acts 2...i.e. in known languages!

For example, have been in a meeting when this happened... someone spoke in tongues and it was understandable by a couple who spoke an African dialect!


Rapha

[Reba]

a few questions


is there such a thing as the tongues of angels

unknown means  what?  unknown to mankind? unknown to the person ( like I do not know Spanish)

was the purpose  of  tongues  to spread the gospel?   as in  the folks in Egypt did not  speak the same as the disciples?

[rapha777]

ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS IN RED
is there such a thing as the tongues of angels. There has to be ... 1 Cor. 13:1 plus we know angels speak in other passages!
unknown means  what?  unknown to mankind? unknown to the person ( like I do not know Spanish). In 1 Cor. 14: 4, 13, 19 for example the KJV translators have added the word unknown.In the RSV we see the word unknown is missing.
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church( 1 Cor. 14: 4)
was the purpose  of  tongues  to spread the gospel?  as in  the folks in Egypt did not  speak the same as the disciples?Tongues in my opinion has many uses:
1. Pray in tongues when you don't know what to pray.
2. Tongues + Interpretation of tongues is equal to prophesy. Notice verse 1 Cor. 14: 13. If you can pray in tongues you can also pray you can interpret!
3. Can save your life ... I know a powerful testimony where this actually happened.
4. Yes it has happened tongues ... can be used to preach the gospel, eg Tommy Hicks in Russia.
5. Salvation of souls. In Acts 2 we have:-
Tongues + Preaching = 3000 souls saved. The book of Acts is sometimes called the Blue Print for evangelism. It is significant to note how many times tongues is mentioned!

... And there are other purposes!

It is down played by some commentators of the Bible but I believe speaking in tongues is the gateway to the supernatural gifts mentioned in 1 Cor. 12.

Rapha

[Petro]

rapha 777 reply #8

ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS IN RED
is there such a thing as the tongues of angels. There has to be ... 1 Cor. 13:1 plus we know angels speak in other passages!

Tongues of angels may be figurative or exhalted speech, but it does not mean an unknown language, because whenever angels spoke to men, in every case they spoke in  common language easily understood in the persons natural language.

unknown means what? unknown to mankind? unknown to the person ( like I do not know Spanish). In 1 Cor. 14: 4, 19 for example the KJV translators have added the word unknown.14:4. In the RSV we see the word unknown is missing.
He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church

In the verses quoted, 1 Cor 14:4-19, it says nothing about prophecy being given in an unknown[/b] tongue. Verse 14, simply states it in the context of what tongues really is; prayer.

Note, how Paul ties it together;

2  For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
4  He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
14  For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15  What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16  Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?

Speaking mysteries in the Spirit, = praying in the Spirit, either way it is not understood, and it is directed to God, and is a form of Prayer.    

Nothing to do with prophecy.

was the purpose of tongues to spread the gospel? as in the folks in Egypt did not speak the same as the disciples?Tongues in my opinion has many uses:
1. Pray in tongues when you don't know what to pray.

Notice this verse;

Rom 8
 26  Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

The spirit makes intercession, with words that cannot be uttered, speaking in tongues, requires somekind of words to be uttered, no matter how mysterious they may be.

If they are uttered, in any form, according to this verse, they are not uttered by man, but by the Spirit, and they are not directed to men, but to God.

2. Tongues + Interpretation of tongues is equal to prophesy. Notice verse 1 Cor. 14: 13. If you can pray in tongues you can also pray you can interpret!

1 Cor 14
13  Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

The only thing being interpreted is the prayer, being prayed, so that the unlearned hearers, can uttered AMEN

While it is true, prophecy, is giving forth the word of God, prophecy herein, is not in view at all in this verse, however, interpretion is, and what is being interpreted is a prayer, for the edificationj of those hearing it, not prophecy.

This is where those who want to speak in tongues, as though they speak for God, make the error and add to Gods Word what is not written.

3. Can save your life ... I know a powerful testimony where this actually happened.
4. Yes it has happened tongues ... can be used to preach the gospel, eg Tommy Hicks in Russia.

There are other purposes!

It is down played by some commentators of the Bible but I believe speaking in tongues is the gateway to the supernatural gifts mentioned in 1 Cor. 12.

Rapha

I don't know about Tommy Hicks or the ability of tongues to save "your life", it is presumed the bear of this gift is saved already,  but I can speak for sure on this matter; of  tongues, it is the least of the gifts, and it is made much of, by many in the church, so much so, that instead of edifying it cause more disruptiuon and disunity among the churches, it is made way more of what it should   be.

It is not of God, if used outside of the commandment given.

And if used to prophecy, that is to say, bring a message to men from god, Christians ought to know it is not God prophecying. Since it is clear from 1 Cor 14:2,

"2  For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God:"  

It is, not prophecying to men...


It is a gift that when used properly within its context and within the commandment given by the Lord, will edify all believers, assuming it has not ceased.

I say this because, it is not clear to me, that tongues have ceased, certainly prophecying in the context I have given has not, and above all else, The Word states, forbid not to speak with tongues. 1 Cor 14:39.

5. Salvation of souls. In Acts 2 we have:-
Tongues + Preaching = 3000 souls saved. The book of Acts is sometimes called the Blue Print for evangelism. It is significant to note how many times tongues is mentioned!

In Acts 2, as I said before, the 3000, were not spoken to at all by anyone in tongues, they heard the speakers, is the best anyone can say about the matter, and at that they all heard in their own tongue, no one needed to interpret for them, but this is not the reason they aere saved.

They were saved because Peter preached the Gospel to them in the common language, not in tongues.

Blessings

Petro

[Reba]

Raphaa777,

Thanks so much  the clear way you formatted your responce!

I was raised in 'tongues' so to speak (hehe) much good and bad has showed up along the way. Fakes, a sence of 'higher' spirituality . . . all the junk one would except. When the thought comes to say it is done away with this verse comes to mind. . .

1 Cor 14:39
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
KJV

So asking questions and pondering the  WHOLE idea of Acts 2:4 has its ebbs and flows. Thanks again

[rapha777]

Petro, regarding your last point I would say the tongues drew the crowd which is SUPER IMPORTANT!

see Acts 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6  And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in his own language.

You need a crowd to preach to in the open air especially if lots of people need to be saved!

Every blessing,

Rapha.

[Brother Love]

see Acts 2:5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem "Jews"

Not to the Gentiles

Brother Love

[rapha777]

From a previous note, please note:-

A. Acts 10: 44 - 48
The Bible says the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured on Cornelius and his Gentile household. How did Peter and the other Jews present know? ... because  they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God "( v.46 )

In Acts 11 Peter had to defend his preaching to the Gentiles. In his defence he makes a very interesting comment. He says the Holy Ghost fell on them as on us at the beginning ( v.15 ) . In other words the same thing happened to the Gentiles in Acts 10 as happened to the Jews a few years previously in Acts 2: 4.

Rapha.

[Brother Love]

From a previous note, please note:-

A. Acts 10: 44 - 48
The Bible says the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured on Cornelius and his Gentile household. How did Peter and the other Jews present know? ... because  they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God "( v.46 )

In Acts 11 Peter had to defend his preaching to the Gentiles. In his defence he makes a very interesting comment. He says the Holy Ghost fell on them as on us at the beginning ( v.15 ) . In other words the same thing happened to the Gentiles in Acts 10 as happened to the Jews a few years previously in Acts 2: 4.

Rapha.

Yes and before Acts Chapter 10, you had to be water baptised before you would receive the Holy Spirit. Times are a changeing.

FROM LAW TO GRACE

Brother Love

[Petro]

From a previous note, please note:-

A. Acts 10: 44 - 48
The Bible says the gift of the Holy Ghost was poured on Cornelius and his Gentile household. How did Peter and the other Jews present know? ... because  they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God "( v.46 )

rapha777,

This is an excellwnt point that you recognize, the problem though is that you focus on the wrong subject.

Notice this carefully;

Acts 10
45  And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46  For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.

The tongues mentioned herein was not unknown, Cornelius and those who spoke in tongues spoke in a language which was understood by Peter and those 6 Jews which accompanied him.

This is why Peter says, at Acts 11:15;

.......the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.

There is a considerable difference between, Jewdaism and Christianity, one worships only god whom they know not, while the other worships the Triune Creator God, and most particularly, the risen Messiah who is revealed to be God in the flesh.

And Peter and his company when they heard the words spoken in what the scriptures call "tongues" understood what was being said, this is plain from the passage since the verses says; (no one asked; "what did they say"?)

45  ............ because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Peter said this because of what was said, by these who spoke in tongues, and what they said was not some mysterious thing the Word tells us they spoke;

46  .....................  with tongues, and magnify God.

The Apostle Paul, put it this way;

1 Cor 12
3  Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.


So, Cornelius and these of his household, who were gentilesdevout jewish worshippers of the Law of Moses, spoke with new tongues in that they; magnified Jesus, their Lord and God.

This is how Peter and the others knew they had been Baptized with the Holy Ghost.

In Acts 11 Peter had to defend his preaching to the Gentiles. In his defence he makes a very interesting comment. He says the Holy Ghost fell on them as on us at the beginning ( v.15 ) . In other words the same thing happened to the Gentiles in Acts 10 as happened to the Jews a few years previously in Acts 2: 4.

Rapha.

Whether it was weeks, months or years later matters little, the fact is, it occurred exactly as it happened to the disciples at Jerusalem, and the promise Jesus made to them was fulfilled, also, in the gentiles;

Acts 1
4  And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father,which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


Blessings,

Petro

[rapha777]

BL,
Quote from: Brother Love on October 21, 2003, 06:10:57 AM
"Physical healing has, and always will be, associated with Israel' s program. "

Are you saying tongues is also only associated with Israel' s program?

Consider what Asaph quoted on the subject of "Healing Check It Out."

Eph 2:19  Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20  And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 3:6  That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

There is only one body, one church and a person is in or out!

Rapha.

[asaph]

One of the things about speaking in tongues is how do you know what is being said with out an interpreter? You dont.
Ive heard many people speak in tongues at churches,and the only interpretations Ive heard came from women, and I must wonder? Women are not permitted to speak in churches.These days in most churches that truth is  unheld to.
So will God go against His order in the Churches, and use women to interpret tongues ,and preach for that matter? NO.

There are churches were  women remain in silence today, but that is not the way of modern Churches, because the world is influencing the churches more than the Bible.

Ive learned to except that most churches allow women to speak and I except it as the days that we live in , I dont condemn it, but neither do I like it.

I believe that God does use women, if no men are available, even If  men are present it does not mean that they are available for God. Men often have given over their responcibity to women , therefore God can use them, but its not the Divine order given for the churches.And the way God uses them is not particularly the way the women think they are being used.
God's word is still being spoken and can be used even if its out of context. Ive heard people that are not even Christian speak the word of God and God used it, but they knew nothing of it.

1 Cor 11
5   But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
Prophesying by women was permissable. Pauls exhotation for women not to speak in a church was to resolve certain problems of confusion. However here we see women prophesying. Elsewhere we see that the woman is not to teach or usurp authority over her husband (the man) not other men. I know this is a separate issue from this thread bur seeing you brought it up I wanted to give an answer.

You said-
One of the things about speaking in tongues is how do you know what is being said with out an interpreter?

In private you do not need an interpreter.
1 Cor 14
18   I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19   Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

Here Paul implies that he speaks a lot of private tongues, yet in the Church he would rather speak with his understanding.

asaph

[rapha777]

ARTICLE ON TONGUES *

Dr. Carl Peterson of ORU in Tulsa, OK is a brain specialist and was doing research on the relationship between the brain and praying in tongues.
Some amazing things were discovered!
Through the research and the testing, Dr. Peterson found that as we pray in the spirit, or worship in the spirit, there is activity that begins in our brain. As we engage in our "heavenly language", the brain releases two chemical secretions that are directed into our immune system giving a 35 to 40 percent boost to our immune system.  This promotes healing within our bodies.

Amazingly, this secretion is triggered from a part of the brain that has no other apprarent activity in humans!

It is only activated by our spirit-led prayer and worship.
Truly we are fearfully and wonderfully made, and equipped for any obstacle that comes before us, if we use our God-given weapons.
--------------
* I am simply relaying an artcle which I came across over 2 years ago of possible interest. I am not defending ( or attacking) ORU . Rapha.

[rapha777]

For completeness please find below some details of Tommy Hicks speaking in tongues in Russia and the other testimony in which speaking in tongues spared a person' s life. Rapha

------------------------------------------------------------
#1 Tommy Hicks was in Russia preaching using an interpreter. The interpreter spat in his face and walked off. The Spirit of God came down on Tommy and he spoke in tongues. The tongues were understandable to the Russian congregation. At the end of the service people asked him questions in Russian and he was not able to understand them.

#2 During the second World War, the Germans advanced into Russia. As they came into a settlement it was their policy to take the occupants out of every 10 th house and shoot them in cold blood. They took a 17 year old girl out to the firing squad. The Spirit of the Lord descended on her and she spoke in tongues. A soldier heard her say, If you shoot me, God will kill you, your wife and children and she named the children in the tongues which came out in fluent German. Her life was spared and also the German soldier' s family was spared and in fact the house and fence where the German family lived suffered no damage .

Source : A Sermon by George Jesze

[rapha777]

I believe some people receive the gift of tongues before receiving the theory ( i.e. finding out the verses in the Holy Bible which are pertinent! ).

Also I have met people who have lost the gift of speaking in tongues for whatever reason... mostly sin. These people need to say sorry to the Lord and should re - receive the gift again!

I have also heard of a woman who was trying to receive the gift and went to several meetings trying to receive and did not. She came to my pastor at that time and he had a word of knowledge for her. He said to the lady, " You have said in the past that tongues are " globbigluk" ( sp?) and if you repent of that you will receive. " She repented and received right away!

PRAISE THE LORD for His gifts and fruit.

Rapha.