Gift or Curse?

[nChrist]

Brothers and Sisters,

I will simply say that the powers and forces of darkness are just as real as the powers and forces of LIGHT. Further, I would say that Christians should expect to be attacked by the powers of darkness from time to time, especially during a time of weakness when our strength in CHRIST isn't what it should be. HERE, I'm talking about a time of spiritual weakness when we aren't feeding and partaking of GOD'S provisions for us in the way that we should. In other words, I'll say that the devil loves to hit Christians when they are down or weak spiritually.

Please - these are very general comments, and I have no intention to offer them about this specific situation. On the other side of the coin, these comments can pertain to every portion of Christian life. There is a reason why portions of the Bible tell us to put on the full armor of GOD. The obviously doesn't apply to a funny looking metal suit, rather the strength and power of GOD that HE wants to give each of us from HIS WORD. A Christian must also make a priority of KNOWING that the HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD lives in our hearts. HE is there as a guide and comforter, but we should also know that we must ask in reverence for HIS help and WANT HIM in all portions of our life.

In short, we must want to give GOD dominion and LORDSHIP in our lives. GOD won't force us to partake of the spiritual riches and blessings that HE wants to give us. HE will help us grow stronger if that is what we really want. NOW - here's the secret - the STRENGTH is in HIM and is HIM - not us.

I think that the advice given in this thread is excellent. In fact, this is a wonderful thread for every Christian to read and think about. Christians should test all things with GOD'S WORD and prayer. If any doubts remain, we should simply stay in GOD'S WORD, keep praying, and wait upon the LORD. I would like to make one sure statement, and that statement has already been made:  if it is from the powers of LIGHT or the HOLY SPIRIT, it will Glorify GOD. There isn't any question about this short and simple statement. Other statements have also been made here that are etched in concrete as absolutes:

1 REPEATED - If it is from the powers of LIGHT or the HOLY SPRITY, it will and MUST Glorify GOD.

2 - It MUST be and will be in agreement with the Holy Bible.

3 - It MUST be and will be TRUE.

Brothers and Sisters, I think this is a beautiful thread, and I'm happy that we are having this conversation on the forum. I hope that the final result will be every Christian here wanting to gain in the strength of the LORD and partake of all the Spiritual Blessings that GOD wants to give us. There is an excellent analogy between food for our physical bodies and food for our Spiritual Being. Both must be fed, and both will have times during this short life of weakness or illness. There are temporary things that can be done to help our physical bodies in this short life, even though we know that it will return to dust. GOD HIMSELF will help us with our Spiritual Being, and this will be for eternity. Here's something beautiful - Christians are already in JESUS and the HOLY SPIRIT is in us. This is TRUE for us RIGHT NOW! Part of our fellowship and joy during this short life is praying for each other, and we should do this every day.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 4:4 NASB  Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, rejoice!

[Okie]

Okie, just an honest question as I also do not wish to put a "label'' on this.

Have you ever been involved in the occult in any way?  Or have you ever read any books on the occult?  These answers might provide more insight.

As others have recommended, I would plead the Blood of Jesus in prayer, that if this is not of God, that the Lord would protect you and remove it.

Yes, I have read many books on the occult and similar things. I started reading the books to see if I could figure out what this was after my Preacher told me I must be spawn of the Devil.(I also quit going to that Church.) 
As for reading the books. I was already a true believer in our Lord Jesus Christ as Savior before I read any books on the Dark Powers that exist.
It may help you to know that most members of my family on my Daddy's side have some sort of "extra" sense. This goes back for at least four generations. We have some that are finders. They find lost objects and lost people. We have those that can move objects without touching and many of us can locate water with  wire rods or willow limbs. We have weather forecasters that will beat the guy on TV everytime.
There are many other "Gifts" that are used for good. I don't know of any of the clan that have used their gifts for dark causes or for any kind of money making thing.

I think this thing bothers me so much because it does involve so many family members.
I was full grown with kids before I knew about  other family members having something extra. It is something we just don't generally talk about. Cyber space makes it easier to discuss. In fact, I found out about the past generations of special people in my family on a family web site.
I appreciate all input on this, but will probably always wonder if it is a genetic thing or a  gift/curse thing bestowed on a past ancester.

[2nd Timothy]

Okie, let me be blunt....and please take this in Love Sis....

1. You are not spawn of the devil ok?  This is non-sense, and if you have truly accepted Christ as your Saviour then you are saved.
2  looking to the occult books etc for answers will most certainly open your mind to the wrong answers.

I know you really want answers to this thing, but the more light you shed on this the clearer its becoming that this is not from God.   God doesn't need occultic books to provide answers for His children.  He has given us His Spirit Breathed word to live from.

I will post this passage again in its fullness for you to read carefully.

1Jo 4:1  Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2  Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
1Jo 4:4  Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Jo 4:5  They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
1Jo 4:6  We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.


Satan is a liar!  He can manifest himself as an angel of light.  He speaks in half truths and is a master deceiver.  This adversary is real and he means you and everyone else harm.


Please!!! put away the extra sources and stick with the truth.   Again, I remind you about the thread where you yourself said you left another forum because they were using extra books to glean truth from.   Take your own advice and stick with the Word ONLY.  You wont go wrong there, and you wont receive lies there either.

We are here to help you with this and pray with you about it....OK?

[Okie]

Now just a minute here. I think there has been a little misunderstanding. I was asked if I had EVER read any occult books. I answered yes, but I guess I didn't go far enough. Yes I have read those books, but it has been over 30 yrs since I read any and never did find any kind of answers there. The Bible has given me partial answers, but not a concrete answer as I would find about let's say murder.
I have studied and prayed about this for years. What I have come up with is this. It is either (A)a God Given gift that I don't know how to put to use for the Glory of God,(B) One of the gerational things that is from sins of the Fathers, (C) one of the mysteries God tells us we are not to understand.
I tend to lean toward (c).

[David_james]

God doesn't punish sins of the father. I'll look for verses to support this

[2nd Timothy]

Take a deep breath Okie, no one is accusing you of anything.      Please don't feel defensive, or take anything personal.  No one is saying you are a bad person or anything like that  We are on your side here!!!     


OK?

[2nd Timothy]

I believe the reason Debp asked if you have ever read any material about the occult, was just a question trying to understand more about this.  I'll let Debp speak for herself, but I have heard stories where persons have opened themselves up to attack by simply picking these books up and just glancing through them. Even believers!  Again, not that this makes YOU a bad person or anything like that, but I do believe it could open up things for worse issues is all.

I started reading the books to see if I could figure out what this was after my Preacher told me I must be spawn of the Devil.(I also quit going to that Church.) 

I can't say I blame you for wanted to quit.   Your pastor should have spent some time with you on this if he didn't.  Saying that you are spawn of the devil was wrong.  You are not some odd person or any such thing.  You simply have something of a spiritual nature happening to you that you don't understand (whether it be good or bad).

As for reading the books. I was already a true believer in our Lord Jesus Christ as Savior before I read any books on the Dark Powers that exist.

Yes I have read those books, but it has been over 30 yrs since I read any and never did find any kind of answers there

I am glad to hear that you are no longer looking to this material for answers.  Even believers can be deceived by such things if they choose stray from Gods word.   So hopefully that stuff is not in your library any longer.

The Bible has given me partial answers, but not a concrete answer as I would find about let's say murder.
I have studied and prayed about this for years. What I have come up with is this. It is either (A)a God Given gift that I don't know how to put to use for the Glory of God,(B) One of the gerational things that is from sins of the Fathers, (C) one of the mysteries God tells us we are not to understand.

From the passage that I provided in the previous post....Has this gift ever given Glory to Christ of its own accord or  truth that Christ came in the flesh?   If not, does it manifest itself in relevance to earthly things or earthly knowledge?

These are two CONCRETE answers from scripture on how to discern spirits.  I know you are looking for specifics....but how much more specific does the answer need to be than this?

What do you think?


Blessings!

[David_james]

John 9

1 As Jesus was walking along, he saw a man who had been blind from birth. 2 “Teacher,” his disciples asked him, “why was this man born blind? Was it a result of his own sins or those of his parents?”
3 “It was not because of his sins or his parents’ sins,” Jesus answered. “He was born blind so the power of God could be seen in him. 4 All of us must quickly carry out the tasks assigned us by the one who sent me, because there is little time left before the night falls and all work comes to an end."

[Debp]

Yes, I have read many books on the occult and similar things. I started reading the books to see if I could figure out what this was after my Preacher told me I must be spawn of the Devil.(I also quit going to that Church.) 
As for reading the books. I was already a true believer in our Lord Jesus Christ as Savior before I read any books on the Dark Powers that exist.
It may help you to know that most members of my family on my Daddy's side have some sort of "extra" sense. This goes back for at least four generations. We have some that are finders. They find lost objects and lost people. We have those that can move objects without touching and many of us can locate water with  wire rods or willow limbs. We have weather forecasters that will beat the guy on TV everytime.
There are many other "Gifts" that are used for good. I don't know of any of the clan that have used their gifts for dark causes or for any kind of money making thing.

I think this thing bothers me so much because it does involve so many family members.
I was full grown with kids before I knew about  other family members having something extra. It is something we just don't generally talk about. Cyber space makes it easier to discuss. In fact, I found out about the past generations of special people in my family on a family web site.
I appreciate all input on this, but will probably always wonder if it is a genetic thing or a  gift/curse thing bestowed on a past ancester.

I have heard that reading books on the occult can definitely open a door to the wrong spirits....and I would think this is even more dangerous when one is "searching" for answers in them.   I hope you have gotten rid of (hopefully destroyed) these books.  I've heard that keeping such books can keep that influence in a person's life.

I do not agree that the pastor should have called you "spawn of the devil"!!  It's good that you left that particular church.....but I wish you would have sought out another more caring pastor to talk with, rather than search in occultic books.

As others here have said, spiritual gifts should bring glory to God.  Also, I find when using my spiritual gifts, I have joy in ministering to others with them.  When these occurrences of seeing people and touching items happen to you, do you have joy or fear?  We know that the Holy Spirit will not cause fear in one's life.

[ibTina]

All of us must quickly carry out the tasks assigned us by the one who sent me, because there is little time left before the night falls and all work comes to an end."

Sorry to get off subject here, but... what a WONDERFUL thing here.... Here it is in the Holy Word that our Heavenly Father has given each of us our own 'thing to do' ... a purpose. What a powerful statement of Scripture! What a REVIVAL in my heart!!

[nChrist]

Sorry to get off subject here, but... what a WONDERFUL thing here.... Here it is in the Holy Word that our Heavenly Father has given each of us our own 'thing to do' ... a purpose. What a powerful statement of Scripture! What a REVIVAL in my heart!!

Amen Sister Tina!

I was hoping this thread would have a positive purpose for all of us. We all have our strengths and weaknesses and hopefully a desire to become stronger in CHRIST. If we pray and mean it, the HOLY SPIRIT in our hearts will guide us and direct us to more and more strength in CHRIST. If we yield completely, GOD can worry about our weaknesses and direct us to paths that HE already wants us on. May GOD help us to yield to HIS desires for us, not our own desires for us. HIS ways will always be the best ways for us, and our greatest joys during this short life will always be on the paths that GOD wants for us.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 12:1-2 NASB  Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

[Okie]

I have heard that reading books on the occult can definitely open a door to the wrong spirits....and I would think this is even more dangerous when one is "searching" for answers in them.   I hope you have gotten rid of (hopefully destroyed) these books.  I've heard that keeping such books can keep that influence in a person's life.

I do not agree that the pastor should have called you "spawn of the devil"!!  It's good that you left that particular church.....but I wish you would have sought out another more caring pastor to talk with, rather than search in occultic books.

As others here have said, spiritual gifts should bring glory to God.  Also, I find when using my spiritual gifts, I have joy in ministering to others with them.  When these occurrences of seeing people and touching items happen to you, do you have joy or fear?  We know that the Holy Spirit will not cause fear in one's life.

 It doesn't cause fear. It startles me at times, but has never scared me. I take that back. I recieved feelings of evil from a place we went one time. We had planned on having a family picnic in a clearing on the Arkansas Riverin Colorado. I kept getting the feelings of evil so strong that we packed up and left. Later that week the news told of a body that had been found there and they thought some local Satanic group had sacrificed the person. It scared me to think of what might have happened if we had happened upon them.
 As for seeing the people, it used to bother me. Not scare me, but it bothered me that there may be souls trapped somehow. After much praying and reading the Bible, I don't believe that could happen. So what do I see? I think it is simular to a recording. I mean, the Earth is a big magnent. Magnetic fields are what makes recordings on tapes. Maybe some kind of sun spot or something beams enough of a past time recording  through so that I somehow pick it up. I really don't know.

 
 

[Debp]

 It doesn't cause fear. It startles me at times, but has never scared me. I take that back. I recieved feelings of evil from a place we went one time. We had planned on having a family picnic in a clearing on the Arkansas Riverin Colorado. I kept getting the feelings of evil so strong that we packed up and left. Later that week the news told of a body that had been found there and they thought some local Satanic group had sacrificed the person. It scared me to think of what might have happened if we had happened upon them.
 As for seeing the people, it used to bother me. Not scare me, but it bothered me that there may be souls trapped somehow. After much praying and reading the Bible, I don't believe that could happen. So what do I see? I think it is simular to a recording. I mean, the Earth is a big magnent. Magnetic fields are what makes recordings on tapes. Maybe some kind of sun spot or something beams enough of a past time recording  through so that I somehow pick it up. I really don't know.

I realize that Christians can sometimes get a feeling to leave a particular place, when it is a dangerous or evil situation.  This would be the Holy Spirit warning us for our safety.

My concern with your situation is that you did read occult books seeking answers.  (Are these ideas of magnetic fields something you learned in the occult books?)  Also, do you still own these occult books?  If you do, personally, I would get rid of them.

Are you attending church now?  What does your pastor say about your seeing people and "getting vibrations" from objects?

[Faithin1]

Okie, my prayers are with you.  I can imagine your frustration, especially when other Christians in the past have shunned the subject, or attributed it to Satan.  It's a blessing to be a member of Christians Unite, where you can receive sincere responses that are not judgemental.  As others have said, seek guidance from God.  May God bless you, and provide the answers you seek.

[Okie]

No, I do not have the occult books, haven't had one for over 30 yrs. I don't read horescopes,carry a rabbits foot or throw salt over my shoulder either.

I do not attend a Church regularly. The Churches around this area seem to have waxed cold. I attended every Sunday for two years and never heard Hell mentioned at all. My daughter and I are home schooling her 4yr old daughter and 12 yr old step daughter. Bible Study is part of the Schooling. I usually spend and hour or more reading the Bible everyday and visit 6 different Christian Forums.