Student Leaves Ham Sandwich on Lunch Table Near Muslims, Suspended for Hate Crim

[barelahh]

[quote author=Debp link=topic=16484.msg201796#msg201796
I know very well what Islam teaches and know about the atrocities committed by many Muslims in this world.  That is why I try to help native missionaries/pastors in Islamic countries through Christian Aid.  I might not be able to be a missionary in those countries, but I can try to help people who are.

My point is that as Christians we are to love all people with Christ's love.  Christ not only told us to love our neighbor as ourselves, but Christ told us to love and pray for our enemies.   This is the way we can reach Muslims with the good news of Christ, not by making fun of their beliefs.
[/quote]
And my sons have all been there to help them too while doing their jobs as marines and navy servicemen.  Don't think anyone hates any of the people, its islam that is the enemy.   Why would anyone respect a belief that promotes their followers to blowing up their own children, to murder innocents?

Imagine if you or I had been born in an Islamic country?  And if we didn't know if God would be sending us to paradise or hell....all we could do is try our best, do ritualistic prayers, and hope that He would not send us to hell.   Imagine if you or I had been so indoctrinated into Islam.   We must pray for these people.

I don't disagree. 

If I were a Muslim coming to this site and would see some of the unkind things said about Muslims.....well, it would just reinforce a Muslim's misconception about Christians and Christianity.   I used to go to another Christian site and was appalled at the extremely rude talk to actual Muslims there.  (Alot of the Christians there were flinging insults and mud as easily as could be....so sad.)  So the essential point is will we be a hinderance or a help to those without Christ?  Are we willing to lay our lives down to try to actually reach these people with the good news of the free gift of salvation through Christ?

You know something, i don't think i would lay down my life for them.  they hear the truth, they reject it.   Its doesn't make me any less christian because i wouldn't lay down and die.  Were supposed to fight evil not lay down and die from it.

[Soldier4Christ]

Brothers and Sisters,

With this being such a prevalent subject in todays world this is indeed an excellent subject for us to discuss in a peaceful manner amongst us.

There is a fine line that we must keep on this. Yes, we are to love our our enemies and no one can deny the fact that islam is in fact an enemy of Christians. As Jesus said, "He that is not with me is against me".

We are also not to intentionally offend as that is placing a stumbling block in others way. At the same time we are not to allow them to run rampant over us, putting blocks in our way of spreading the Gospel. If we allow these things to continue in the manner of this article that is exactly what we are doing. We are allowing them to push us back to within the confines of our churches and homes.

It is not only islam that is doing it. It is all of the political correctness advocates of today and the islamists are making use of this movement against us. It is such statements as "offended" and being "scarred for life" that is a detriment to our putting out the word of God. Jesus did not mince words with the Pharisees (neither did the Apostles) and I will not mince words with those that are doing these things.

[Brother Jerry]

Deb

I do agree with you that we should show Christ's love for all people.  And as you said Christ told us to love our enemies. 

Let me also state this about that verse.  Christ did not say that we are to not have enemies.  Matter of fact we know that our primary enemy is Satan.  But Christ acknowledged that we will have enemies.  There will be people that will be confrontational with us, they will attempt to oppress us, they will scourn us, and for some people much much more.  But that does not mean that we do not love them as Christ also loves them.  They are still our enemies.  And Christ did not teach that we are to submit to our enemies. 

Even with our biggest enemy Satan and sin we are to fight it with the glory of God on our side.  We don the whole armor of God and use our faith as a shield against the enemy and strike with the Word of God. 

The love of Christ is not to just sit by and let things happen in the world, that is being luke warm and Revelations lets us know that luke warm will be spewed out.  We should be actively combating evil and unrighteousness with the truth that is Jesus Christ.  And instead of just leaving a ham sandwich on the table we should maybe also be leaving a tract there that explains how Christ sacrifice has made all that is unclean possible to be clean.  And how Christ came and died for their sins so that they may enjoy a fellowship with God.

I will admit that I have been a big speaker here as well as other places of how Islam is creeping its way into the American lifestyle.  And that no matter how hard people want to think it a peaceful religion it is far from it.  As quoted here and in many other places the Quran and texts of Islam preach that non-believers are second rate citizens and that Christians and Jews are one step further down the social ladder.  Jesus came to the world for all people, Hindu, Muslim, Atheist, Jew, and any other there may be.  And it is that truth that we must bring to light and it is that truth that is the love God has for us. 

I love the Muslims that I know around me.  But their religion is my enemy and I try to fight that with the truth of Jesus.  But I also do not compromise my faith and beliefs in order to ensure that they are not offended.  If they are offended by my lifestyle, and my lifestyle is in line with the Bible, then I should sit down and chat with them on why they would find what I am doing offensive.  In the end they would find it offensive because what they believe does NOT fit with what the Bible teaches, and I cannot and will not be sorry for that.

[Debp]

And my sons have all been there to help them too while doing their jobs as marines and navy servicemen.  Don't think anyone hates any of the people, its islam that is the enemy.   Why would anyone respect a belief that promotes their followers to blowing up their own children, to murder innocents?
I don't disagree. 
You know something, i don't think i would lay down my life for them.  they hear the truth, they reject it.   Its doesn't make me any less christian because i wouldn't lay down and die.  Were supposed to fight evil not lay down and die from it.

When I talk about laying down our lives for them, I mean we should deny the flesh when it comes to insulting and ridiculing Muslims.  No one will reach anyone for Christ if they deliberately do this.

I get a prayer letter from a native mission in Iraq.  They just handed out another 20,000 New Testaments and hope to hand out many more as funds come in.  The native missionaries/pastors say the Muslims there are eager to receive the Bible!!  They are even establishing churches (although it is still very dangerous for pastors in Bagdad and some other cities....3 were recently murdered, 1 has fled.)  Northern Iraq is peaceful and has asked for Christians to move there....they will even give them land for churches!  (A note:  These Christians are so glad the USA is there and they pray for Pres. Bush daily.)

So please, let's all let our lights shine for Christ.....as Pastor Roger mentions let's not intentionally offend and put stumbling blocks in another's way.

[Debp]

Deb

I do agree with you that we should show Christ's love for all people.  And as you said Christ told us to love our enemies. 

Let me also state this about that verse.  Christ did not say that we are to not have enemies.  Matter of fact we know that our primary enemy is Satan.  But Christ acknowledged that we will have enemies.  There will be people that will be confrontational with us, they will attempt to oppress us, they will scourn us, and for some people much much more.  But that does not mean that we do not love them as Christ also loves them.  They are still our enemies.  And Christ did not teach that we are to submit to our enemies. 

Even with our biggest enemy Satan and sin we are to fight it with the glory of God on our side.  We don the whole armor of God and use our faith as a shield against the enemy and strike with the Word of God. 

The love of Christ is not to just sit by and let things happen in the world, that is being luke warm and Revelations lets us know that luke warm will be spewed out.  We should be actively combating evil and unrighteousness with the truth that is Jesus Christ.  And instead of just leaving a ham sandwich on the table we should maybe also be leaving a tract there that explains how Christ sacrifice has made all that is unclean possible to be clean.  And how Christ came and died for their sins so that they may enjoy a fellowship with God.

I will admit that I have been a big speaker here as well as other places of how Islam is creeping its way into the American lifestyle.  And that no matter how hard people want to think it a peaceful religion it is far from it.  As quoted here and in many other places the Quran and texts of Islam preach that non-believers are second rate citizens and that Christians and Jews are one step further down the social ladder.  Jesus came to the world for all people, Hindu, Muslim, Atheist, Jew, and any other there may be.  And it is that truth that we must bring to light and it is that truth that is the love God has for us. 

I love the Muslims that I know around me.  But their religion is my enemy and I try to fight that with the truth of Jesus.  But I also do not compromise my faith and beliefs in order to ensure that they are not offended.  If they are offended by my lifestyle, and my lifestyle is in line with the Bible, then I should sit down and chat with them on why they would find what I am doing offensive.  In the end they would find it offensive because what they believe does NOT fit with what the Bible teaches, and I cannot and will not be sorry for that.

Brother Jerry, please see my response to Barelahh as well, as it is more detailed.

Somehow it seems some here think I am defending Islam. I am not.  What I don't agree with is deliberately insulting Muslims.  I live my life in Christ and pray for God's wisdom when speaking to others.

When Muslim students come to the USA to study, the radical Islamics seek to recruit them.  Will we be the reason they become a radical, if we insult them?  Or will they see the difference Christ makes in our lives and want to know the Savior?

[barelahh]

When I talk about laying down our lives for them, I mean we should deny the flesh when it comes to insulting and ridiculing Muslims.  No one will reach anyone for Christ if they deliberately do this.

I get a prayer letter from a native mission in Iraq.  They just handed out another 20,000 New Testaments and hope to hand out many more as funds come in.  The native missionaries/pastors say the Muslims there are eager to receive the Bible!!  They are even establishing churches (although it is still very dangerous for pastors in Bagdad and some other cities....3 were recently murdered, 1 has fled.)  Northern Iraq is peaceful and has asked for Christians to move there....they will even give them land for churches!  (A note:  These Christians are so glad the USA is there and they pray for Pres. Bush daily.)

So please, let's all let our lights shine for Christ.....as Pastor Roger mentions let's not intentionally offend and put stumbling blocks in another's way.

Ok deb i get what your saying but if i am also not going to change my daily life, to tiptoe around some islamic belief that is a false teaching to begin with.  I see islam as a major danger to our nation, and to christianity.  the more we cower and hide from them when they get offended the more strength they get and grow stronger which in time and not much time at all they will manage to silence the Gospel of Christ through laws and "hate crime legislation" as well. 

I am sorry but i am no diplomat, i never claimed to be never will be one. I speak what i think and if folks don't like it, then thats their problem not mine!  I don't lie to them. I speak the unvarnished truth in all of my dealings and if it offends then thats not my problem.  Would you rather i LIE to them to spare their easily offended nature?? 

[Debp]

Ok deb i get what your saying but if i am also not going to change my daily life, to tiptoe around some islamic belief that is a false teaching to begin with.  I see islam as a major danger to our nation, and to christianity.  the more we cower and hide from them when they get offended the more strength they get and grow stronger which in time and not much time at all they will manage to silence the Gospel of Christ through laws and "hate crime legislation" as well. 

I am sorry but i am no diplomat, i never claimed to be never will be one. I speak what i think and if folks don't like it, then thats their problem not mine!  I don't lie to them. I speak the unvarnished truth in all of my dealings and if it offends then thats not my problem.  Would you rather i LIE to them to spare their easily offended nature?? 

I don't expect you or anyone else to tiptoe around....and I certainly do not believe in lying of any sort!!   God hates liars.   But I do think it's good to use wisdom with "outsiders" as the Scripture says.  You can surely eat pork....or do anything else that we Christians believe in....nothing wrong with that.

About being a diplomat, the Bible college I went to had a theme song called "We are Ambassadors for Christ".  Also, in the Personal Evangelism class, we learned about "friendship evangelism" besides cold turkey evangelism on the street and campuses.  So I guess that's why this emphasis stayed with me.   But in earlier years, I did alot of street evangelism.

May I ask if you or others here have had success in sharing with Muslims?   I have been able to share about salvation through Christ, Muslims have asked me further questions about our beliefs, they have asked for prayer (even from my church), called when in dire emergencies and needed prayer and visitation.....and I have also recently had the opportunity to pray with a Muslim in Jesus' name.  So I do think that reaching out with Christ's love and using wisdom does definitely help to open a door to them.

[Shammu]

I agree bareahhh, and Debp......... I know you aren't defending the muslim faith.  If you look, you will see, I'm not insulting the islamic faith. If you reread my post you will see, I said that I love the people, but not the sin.  In this case, it is islam for the sin.

Though, I won't change my ways, or cower to them either.  I still love them, as Jesus comands us to love. No where in the Bible will you find, "hate the sinner."

[Soldier4Christ]

May I ask if you or others here have had success in sharing with Muslims? 

Yes, but it has been very few. Most have called me blasphemous and many other names for even mentioning Jesus. Few of them wanted to listen but rather wanted to preach to me and would continually cut me off each time I would try to speak.

[barelahh]

I don't expect you or anyone else to tiptoe around....and I certainly do not believe in lying of any sort!!   God hates liars.   But I do think it's good to use wisdom with "outsiders" as the Scripture says.  You can surely eat pork....or do anything else that we Christians believe in....nothing wrong with that.

About being a diplomat, the Bible college I went to had a theme song called "We are Ambassadors for Christ".  Also, in the Personal Evangelism class, we learned about "friendship evangelism" besides cold turkey evangelism on the street and campuses.  So I guess that's why this emphasis stayed with me.   But in earlier years, I did alot of street evangelism.

May I ask if you or others here have had success in sharing with Muslims?   I have been able to share about salvation through Christ, Muslims have asked me further questions about our beliefs, they have asked for prayer (even from my church), called when in dire emergencies and needed prayer and visitation.....and I have also recently had the opportunity to pray with a Muslim in Jesus' name.  So I do think that reaching out with Christ's love and using wisdom does definitely help to open a door to them.

you know my gift isn't evangelist or teacher or pastor. My gift and i am going by several people that i love and trust is of prophacy.  They tell me i have the ability of forthtelling, not foretelling.  I don't know for sure, but i understand things that most people will go HUHHHH
I love delving into daniel, malechai habakuk, Isaiah, jeremiah, joel and revelation.
I am a introvert for the most part and do not get along with people very well unless i know them well.
SOOOO i do more for the cause by not going out and opening my mouth in a group of people.  I tend to come across as hellfire and brimstone when i try to explain things. Nothing really wrong with that just that i don't have the ability to be a diplomat.  Some are some aren't.  they send the diplomats out to the missions field and keep the prophet gift for study groups.

[Soldier4Christ]

They tell me i have the ability of forthtelling

I prefer to call this the gift of understanding.

[barelahh]

I prefer to call this the gift of understanding.

I agree, i think of it myself as interpretation or understanding.  My dad was one who could make it come alive.

[nChrist]

Hello Barelahh,

We have quite a few folks on the forum who have studied Bible prophecy for decades. It's a fascinating and worthy study. I mentioned "worthy" because many people don't think that any time should be spent in this area. For like reasons, there are many people who don't think it's worthy to study the Old Testament. I'll simply say that all of the Bible has a dramatic purpose. I'll also say that understanding the Old Testament and Prophecy adds vibrancy to the truths that are easier to grasp.

I don't know any real Christians who hate the lost. This gets back to the purpose for this thread. I think that the best description is that we hate sin but not the sinner. Those of Islam are definitely lost, and this should be a burden on the heart of every Christian. Please - I didn't intentionally single out this one religion, but this one is part of the thread topic.

Part of the discussion involves how we interact specifically with those of the Muslim faith. I'm ill and homebound, so all of my experience in this area is on the forum. I'll have to say that the vast majority of this experience has been horrible. There was definitely hate involved, but not from me, rather from them. Their sole purpose was to come here and preach and condemn us. Quite a few of them went from the horrible to the insane zealot, and things got ugly pretty quickly. Our experience here  over the years leads pretty quickly to a conclusion that allowing the preaching of other religions here is not part of our mission.

To Debp and all, I would hope that anyone would determine pretty quickly that Christians Unite is for our Lord and Saviour, JESUS CHRIST. The debate on what we do or don't do in sharing the GOOD NEWS on a forum read by thousands every day is a fascinating topic. I would think that many other methods could be considered if things were one on one or at least on a more personal basis. Here, the vast majority of our readers aren't members and they never will be. Many considerations were made, but the decision was to make our message and purpose here plain. JESUS CHRIST is the only WAY and HE is our purpose.

Those in Islam do consider what we say about JESUS CHRIST to be blasphemy. To them, JESUS CHRIST was just a subordinate messenger and a man. How they react to us really depends on how firm they are in their own beliefs. After all, many of them have been taught to either convert us or kill us for all of their lives. So, hate is really a one-way street, and it isn't from Christians. Their hate is the first major obstacle to overcome. I must mention that there are many success stories around the world, and many of them eventually lead to a Christian giving up their life in the attempt to share the GOOD NEWS. I give thanks that we don't face danger on Christians Unite in sharing with many thousands of people every day. All of us can and should be praying for the many Christians around the world who do have their lives on the line for CHRIST.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:31-32 NASB  What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?  He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

[Faithin1]

Wow, what a thread!  What on earth is happening to this country?  A ham sandwich is now being considered a 'hate crime' device.  Now, what a person chooses to have for lunch can be considered a life-shattering event for someone who is opposed to that particular meat.  I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I think this is ridiculous.  I refuse to alter my food preferences to appease Muslims or anyone else.  I don't try to dictate what others should or should not eat, and I am not going to allow someone to dictate that to me. 

I am a Christian, I love Jesus, and I try to live my life accordingly.  Yes, we are to love our enemies, but correct me if I'm wrong, but Jesus never told us that in order to love our enemies we have to conform to their beliefs.  Muslims also believe that women should cover themselves.  Are we next to expect all women in this country to wear burkas so as not to 'offend' anyone?    This is America, and in America we eat pork.

[Brother Jerry]

Stop the presses.

Go back and click on the link to the story.  Top of the article

EDITOR'S NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN ACTUAL NEWS STORY. IT IS A PARODY.

This is not a real story. 

Now I do believe that if we as a country continue down this path...it will be a true story tomorrow.

Also Deb
I know you are not actually defending Islam.  I apologize if my post appeared confrontational in that.   I just felt a need to expand upon my thoughts and I did not properly seperate them from the actual replies to you.  Again I apologize for that.