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twobombs
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« on: October 15, 2003, 05:42:56 PM »

Hi People,

Correct me if I am wrong; but the current attacks on Israel's soil look like one BIG opinion maker.

The recent attack on the US envoys only seem to put more oil on the already burning conflict.

I forsee that the attacks will continue and cause the influence of the US&UN backed policy makers to get bigger and bigger, and usher in a major US/UN presence in the name of ' the war on terrorism' ; in that process provoking other nations and revolutionists to start an attack on Isael but first starting out in a similar fashion as it now happens in Iraq.

This major military and political attack on Israel has been prophecied as the Gog/Magog war and will also include a blitzkrieg-type of strike on the USA. Remember the wolfpacks 60 years ago in WW2 ? This time they seem to be equipped with nukes. Thus answering the question: " who can make war with the beast ? "

Other people got some similar ideas about this ?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2003, 05:46:38 PM by twobombs » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2003, 07:59:21 PM »

Gee,, um,,, hmmmm  Werent there major military attacks on Israel after this prophecy was made?

H
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aw
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« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2003, 12:54:33 AM »

I can't find nor have ever seen any evidence that America is involved in any way. I have heard some vague and nebulous theories that relate an EAGLE to prophecy and claim it to be America, but it is far fetched at best.

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Petro
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« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2003, 02:33:07 AM »

Attacks on Israel, will continue, right up until then, when God fights for them in there own land, he gave to their fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

This is nothing new and they are even attacked and despised by some who considet hemselves christian.

But God promises were not only to their fathers but to the national itself.

What is amazing, isn't that they are despised and hated by these, but that inspite of men working in liason with the evil one to utterly destroy Israel, has not accomplished it in the history of the world.

The fact that Israel is one again in the land, is mute testimony to Gods fauithfullness, He will accomplish all that He has promised, for His name sake.

Consider, what is written in holy writ;

Deut 30
30:1  And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2  And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3  That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4  If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5  And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6  And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
7  And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
8  And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
9  And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
10  If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11  For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12  It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13  Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14  But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15  See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16  In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17  But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18  I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19  I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20  That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Scoffers will, reject what is written herein (by claimi9ng this has been fulfilled), yet, they occupy a portion of the land given to them  today, and it is that the purposes of God may be fulfilled in them, as a testimony to the nations of World.

Thou they be the tail, today, in the end they will be the HEAD, in fullfillment of scriptures.

Petro
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Reba
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2003, 09:30:14 PM »

What makes a person an Israelie?

Place of birth?

Blood line of parents?
     
        IF bloodline what %

Does an  he/she have to be of the Jewish faith?

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ollie
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« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2003, 05:25:38 AM »

Attacks on Israel, will continue, right up until then, when God fights for them in there own land, he gave to their fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

This is nothing new and they are even attacked and despised by some who considet hemselves christian.

But God promises were not only to their fathers but to the national itself.

What is amazing, isn't that they are despised and hated by these, but that inspite of men working in liason with the evil one to utterly destroy Israel, has not accomplished it in the history of the world.

The fact that Israel is one again in the land, is mute testimony to Gods fauithfullness, He will accomplish all that He has promised, for His name sake.

Consider, what is written in holy writ;

Deut 30
30:1  And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee,
2  And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3  That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee.
4  If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5  And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6  And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
7  And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, which persecuted thee.
8  And thou shalt return and obey the voice of the LORD, and do all his commandments which I command thee this day.
9  And the LORD thy God will make thee plenteous in every work of thine hand, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy land, for good: for the LORD will again rejoice over thee for good, as he rejoiced over thy fathers:
10  If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which are written in this book of the law, and if thou turn unto the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul.
11  For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off.
12  It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
13  Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14  But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it.
15  See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16  In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
17  But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18  I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
19  I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20  That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Scoffers will, reject what is written herein (by claimi9ng this has been fulfilled), yet, they occupy a portion of the land given to them  today, and it is that the purposes of God may be fulfilled in them, as a testimony to the nations of World.

Thou they be the tail, today, in the end they will be the HEAD, in fullfillment of scriptures.

Petro

"Deut. 30:15  See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16  In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his waysand to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgements,".....

Hasn't this been fukfilled in Jesus Christ? Why would God go back to His previous covenant when it is fulfilled?
One will not inherit anything if they reject Jesus Christ!

We are not under the law as given to Moses, but the law of faith through the grace of God. To establish the law of Moses again would be blasphemy and a put down to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


Are not the verses you quote about past happennings and are over and done?  Since the law has been fulfilled in Christ and in these verses it is being told that the law must be kept. Is it not a clue that this is past and done?
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Petro
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« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2003, 08:04:36 AM »

Quote
ollies reply #5

 "Deut. 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his waysand to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgements,".....

Hasn't this been fukfilled in Jesus Christ?

For us who have believed God, this is true..

But see the conditions, set for them, at this chapter;

19  I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
20  That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.



Quote
Why would God go back to His previous covenant when it is fulfilled?
One will not inherit anything if they reject Jesus Christ!

There are elements in the First covenant which are the basis for the Second,  and by obedience to it they  can come to faith in Christ because the law (our tutor) brought us to Christ, and can also accomplish this for them, however some (who have not come) are blinded and   they cannot clearly, see that it (the  1st Covenant) has been abolished because they broke it.  And faith has not been revealed to them, YET! (I am speaking of them as a nation.)

As it is written;


Rom11
7  Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
8  (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
9  And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them:
10  Let their eyes be darkened that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
11  I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
15  For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
25  For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26  And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27  For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Quote
We are not under the law as given to Moses, but the law of faith through the grace of God. To establish the law of Moses again would be blasphemy and a put down to our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Paul asnwers this very well;

Rom 11
28  As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29  For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30  For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31  Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
34  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
35  Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Quote
Are not the verses you quote about past happennings and are over and done? Since the law has been fulfilled in Christ and in these verses it is being told that the law must be kept. Is it not a clue that this is past and done?

The verses quoted, have to do with possession of the land (this was the basis for the blessings and the curses spoken of at the begining of the chapter), that God promised their fathers and the Nation, they are as a Nation also heirs to the promises made, this is WHY the Nation has to be saved (though it only be a remnant), as a witness and a testimony to all other nations that there is a God that saves men from SIN, and that HE is there GOD.

Blessings,

Petro
« Last Edit: October 29, 2003, 10:23:46 PM by Petro » Logged

Reba
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« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2003, 11:23:53 AM »

Moses is said to have penned Deuteronomy.

Joshua is the next generation.


Josh 21:43-45
43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass.
KJV
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ollie
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« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2003, 09:35:17 PM »

Where is it stated that God will bring the Jews back to the promised land after the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 AD? That promise of the promised land was fulfilled.

Physically brought back that is. Just because there is a physical Israel does not necessarily mean it is a work of God.
So far it seems to be a work of man in and of his own doing and not of God.
By their fruits you shall know them.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2003, 09:36:28 PM by ollie » Logged

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« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2003, 10:06:57 PM »

Where is it stated that God will bring the Jews back to the promised land after the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 AD? That promise of the promised land was fulfilled.

Physically brought back that is. Just because there is a physical Israel does not necessarily mean it is a work of God.
So far it seems to be a work of man in and of his own doing and not of God.
By their fruits you shall know them.

ollie,

You are just going to have to do soem reading, and catch, up.

As for your statement;

"Just because there is a physical Israel does not necessarily mean it is a work of God."

Sounds like the theory of evolution, life just evolved.

Nations have come an gone, throught the history of civilization
but never has a nation been so utterly destroyed, and dispersed unto all the nations of the world, and 2000 years later, here they are back in the same area of the world where they where last time, they were a nation, with the same name no less......huh?

Domb luck i guess ....what do you think??

Just pure chance??

Even if you saw the verses, I doubt they will have an affect on your thinking, from what you've written have thus far.

You gotta havre faith.............man.

Blessing's

Petro
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2003, 07:26:47 AM »

What makes a person an Israelie?

Place of birth?

Blood line of parents?
     
        IF bloodline what %

Does an  he/she have to be of the Jewish faith?



Ezekial 37:16  Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions: 17  And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

The grafted in wild branches, companions, and the two houses of Israel are those that will be saved. I believe that The house of Israel or Ephraim is to a large part the church today which Jesus spoke of as the "lost sheep' that He came to save. Ephraim was and is the first born of God that receives the double portion or double blessing and is spoke of in Hosea as becoming like "Sons of the living God". Does that name sound familiar? It sure does. Ephraim and Judah are to be reunited before the end along with all those that beleive in Messiah - Jesus. A true Jew is one of the heart.

Jeremiah 31:9  They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.

Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. 7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. 8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Acts 13:23  Of this manís seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

Romans 2:28 (LIV) For you are not real Jews just because you were born of Jewish parents or because you have gone through the Jewish initiation ceremony of circumcision.
29 No, a real Jew is anyone whose heart is right with God. For God is not actually looking for for those who cut their bodies in actual body circumcision, but He is looking for those with changed hearts and minds. Whoever has that kind of change in his life will get praise from God, even if not from you.

Jesus spoke of other "sheep which are not of this fold; I must bring them in also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd." And "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" (John 10:16; Matthew 15:24)



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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2003, 07:23:27 PM »

Raphu,

 Thank you
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Petro
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2003, 09:46:32 PM »

Josh 21:43-45
43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

44 And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand.

45 There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass

These verses as I have mentioned already, where fulfilled in as much as the faithfullness of God is concerned, but the enlargement of the borders of the Nation never ocurred, do to their unfaithfullness.

The Borders of the land promised to Abraham's seed, was much larger, encompassing a land, from the river Nile and the Great Sea on the Western border to the river Euphrates (Gen 15:18), than what the Nation ever occupied, this is clear from the testimony of scripture, but it will be fulfilled in the earthly reign of Christ during the Milleniun.

Note, Gods Words.

Ex 34
21  Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest: in earing time and in harvest thou shalt rest.
22  And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end.
23  Thrice in the year shall all your menchildren appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.
24  For I will cast out the nations before thee, and enlarge thy borders: neither shall any man desire thy land, when thou shalt go up to appear before the LORD thy God thrice in the year.

Deut 12
19  Take heed to thyself that thou forsake not the Levite as long as thou livest upon the earth.
20  When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.

Deut 19
7  Wherefore I command thee, saying, Thou shalt separate three cities for thee.
8 And if the LORD thy God enlarge thy coast, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers, and give thee all the land which he promised to give unto thy fathers;
9  If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:
10  That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

Note verse 8 above, it is clear the Lord gave the land to the fathers, but their borders of what they possessed where never enlarged to include the entire parcel of land, and all the nations that occupied the lkand previously where not totally cast out of the land.

God gave them rest from their enemies round about, but, this doesn't prove the other nations where totally removed from off the land, the historical and biblical record is clear this never happened, and neither have they possessed it forever, but they will in the day the remmanent is saved representaive of the Nation, and then all Israel will be saved...

Blessings,

Petro
« Last Edit: November 04, 2003, 09:54:54 PM by Petro » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2003, 10:15:44 PM »

Some day maybe scripture will get it correct Petro and agree with you. Tell then i will trust Gods word to be true.


Josh 21:43-45
43 And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein


I do not see written here any exceptions.
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« Reply #14 on: November 05, 2003, 02:11:43 AM »

To add to what I have written.

It is clear from the Word, that Israel would be a nation of Priests, and it is not saying at this passage of scripture, that all would be Levites, but the whole nation would be Priest of God.

To whom would they minister the laws and ordinances of God, the answer to this question is to all the other nations of the World.

Who??, Those whom He had chosen in Christ from before the foundation of the World.

Gods plan, is made clearer, when one learns that God will create a New heaven and a New Earth, which will be inhabited only by HIS people spiritual Israel, whom He planned to save from the very begining.

And the boundaries of of the Apple of His Eye, was to be enlarged, as they lived by faith unto faith,

To include the desolate places, which this great river of living waters flowing from the throne of God at Jerusalem, spoken of in Eze47, will eventually water the whole earth, as it surely will water the desolate land in the Millenial Reign of Jesus on the earth.

Note the blessings;

Deut 28
2  And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
3  Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field.
4  Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep.
5  Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
6  Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
7  The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face: they shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
8  The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses, and in all that thou settest thine hand unto; and he shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
9  The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
10  And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD; and they shall be afraid of thee.
11  And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
12  The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure, the heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season, and to bless all the work of thine hand: and thou shalt lend unto many nations, and thou shalt not borrow.
13  And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:

The Bible tells the rest of the story.

Petro
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