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Whitehorse
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« Reply #15 on: October 02, 2003, 10:14:26 PM »

Heidi, I agree: we all sin. I'm concerned that this guy is not really a Christian, though; so lowering the bar may not be the route to go on this, for it is written:

He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. I John 2:9

similarly:

If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? I John 4:20

I think he needs to take a look at these, plus other verses that clearly point out that we are done with sin, that if we say we should go on sinning that grace may abound, the truth isn't in us.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?  Romans 6:1-2

AAAAmember, can you tell us what happened before this to make him declare this? Was it a doctrinal issue? What made him say such a thing?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2003, 10:22:40 PM by Whitehorse » Logged

AAAAmember
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« Reply #16 on: October 02, 2003, 10:36:28 PM »

I'm just as lost as y'all are about why he hates me so much - it has absolutely nothing to do with religion.  He makes fun of the way I talk (I'm from the north, this school is in the south), my intelligence, my appearance, my social skills, my relationships, my everything.  He has called me everything from a liar to a whore to a b*tch, has placed giant insects on my desk, in my face and in my hair, has messed with my cell phone while I was at class one day and changed it to spanish, has turned my posters upside down and re-hung them, and has generally made my life a living hell.  Even my roommate is confused - when she asks him why he's so cruel he can't give her a reason, and when she asks him to be nice he *cries* and accuses her of taking my side...he's told her multiple times that I'm hurting their relationship!!!

It's gotten so bad that I recently applied for a room change but unfortunately I found out today that all of the dorms are full...with waiting lists. Tongue So I'm stuck.  My roommate's not the problem - she's awesome, but her boyfriend is a JERK.  He's made me so miserable that I've even thought of transferring schools.  He's made me cry more times than I can count.

Sound like the model Christian to you?

A4C - nice sarcasm, but it wasn't called for.

~AAAA
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Whitehorse
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« Reply #17 on: October 02, 2003, 11:09:06 PM »

It seems the key is in the fact that he feels you're getting in the way of their relationship. If your roommate has confided in you about their relationship, that may give you some clues. It's quite possible that you are having a good influence on your roommate. Maybe she's sticking to her values and her boyfriend is nonplussed with that.

One idea is to talk to him without your roommate there to add to the balance one way or another. Maybe you could let her know you're planning on talking to him, and then go knock on his door before they have any chance to discuss it; ask him why he is angry.

If you speak gently and take a spirit of compassion and concern (as hard as I know that will be) he is more likely to confide in you. Try to see how he is looking at it even though he is completely in the wrong-because then he is more likely to be honest. It's a good idea to do this after you've forgiven him so you won't feel tempted to use it against him next time he offends you.

I hope that helps; I don't know the situation etiher, so I'm just guessing. What I'm wondering is, is your roommate a Christian? Because it seems she's dating someone who is not. Maybe your roommate is your one link to this guy. If so, the problem proabably exists there, whether for good or not. Especially if you don't know why he is angry with you.

But it seems she's jumping back and forth between the two of you, agreeing with him about his social obligations, and yet he says she's siding with you.
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« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2003, 01:02:59 AM »

Now...I KNOW the whole speech about "AAAA - being a good person won't get you into heaven.  You have to accept Jesus."  But I at least thought that accepting Jesus meant that you had to at least be a nice person as well.

Is this true?  Can my roommate's boyfriend harass me daily and make my life a living hell but once he gets to heaven, he says a little "oops - sorry!" and then goes right to heaven?

I find the actions of this guy an embarrassment to Christianity. Just because he claims Christ it doesnít mean he is one of His.  
We are not to judge who is or who is not saved because only God knows the heart. From what you have said the evidence of salvation is lacking in him.
Unfortunately most churches today teach a false gospel of works. As long as you do the work of accepting Christ as your savior; believe, confess, repent, whatever work your church requires, you are saved.
This is very unfortunate for so many people.

Matthew 7:21 ∂ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

What Matthew 7 is telling us is many people who confess Jesus is their Lord were never His people.
When God saves us He removes the love we have for sin. It is called being born again. He gives us a new heart.

Ezekiel 11:19  And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Ezekiel 11:20  That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Notice that the result of this new heart is to walk in obedience. If we are saved it is something we do with pleasure. If we are unsaved we seek our happiness in sin.
The bible tells us to test ourselves to see if we are saved.

2 Corinthians 13:5  Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves.

We canít set up our own test so God tells us how to test.

1 John 2:3  And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1 John 2:4  He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Romans 7:22-25 teaches us we will still sin but it doesnít give us pleasure.
What you have said about this guy says, to me, that either he doesnít know what he is doing is wrong, or he is not saved. If he is saved God will deal with him, in this life. He does chastise His children.

Hebrews 12:6  For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
Hebrews 12:7  If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Hebrews 12:8  But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

If some one is not saved He will deal with them in the next life. The unsaved will be cast in to outer darkness. Nothing of God will be found there. No light. No love. No companionship. Only despair.
Jesus was especially hard on the hypocrites.
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John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2003, 08:02:41 AM »

Hi all.

Just a little question for everyone.

I was in my dorm room with my roommate and her boyfriend the other day (her boyfriend has been harassing me CONSTANTLY about everything - he's terribly cruel) so finally I got exasperated and told him that he was obligated to be nice.  The conversation went something like this (no exaggeration, I swear):

me: ____, you HAVE to be nice to me.
him: No, I don't HAVE to be nice to you.
me: Yes you do.  It has to do with what you do every Sunday.
him: I go to church.  What does being Christian have to do with this?
me: You're a Christian - you supposed to be nice to people and be a good person.
him: Nope.  All I have to do is accept Jesus.  I can be as mean to you as I like.  I just have to account for it when I die.  
me: So when you account for it, do you get in trouble?
him: Nope.  I just account for it and go straight to heaven.  You, on the other hand, go to hell.

And my roommate just sat there and nodded!!!  They were serious!!!  They basically said that ALL they have to do is believe in Jesus and BAM - straight one-way ticket to heaven!  Regardless of your character and morals!

Now...I KNOW the whole speech about "AAAA - being a good person won't get you into heaven.  You have to accept Jesus."  But I at least thought that accepting Jesus meant that you had to at least be a nice person as well.

Is this true?  Can my roommate's boyfriend harass me daily and make my life a living hell but once he gets to heaven, he says a little "oops - sorry!" and then goes right to heaven?

~AAAA
Hebrews 10:26.  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
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« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2003, 09:57:28 AM »

AAAA,

You question is a very valid one, and to be honest, not one anyone can answer in this board.  We don't know the whole story and the day to day interactions that go on between you two.  No matter his apparent justification, I admit that what he is doing wrong ... Christian or no Christian.  

So ... I admit he is wrong ... and I admit that I have no clue why he does what he does ... and ... I don't think anyone here can make any assumptions on his salvation.  No one here knows his heart.  I say all of this to set up an apparent explaination to his behavior, since you have asked 'why'.

When a person becomes saved, Romans tells us that we are set free from the penalty of sin, and the power of sin (but not the precense).  This means that we are forgiven and it is not held against us.  "Released from the power" means that we now have a choice to sin or not.  Before we are saved, we do not have the power to not sin.  One, because mostly we don't know what sin is, and two ... it is inherently who we are.  Now after we are saved, we move into a "sanctification" process.  This is a big word that just means we are being convicted to change things in our life.  When I first became saved, there were a great many things in my life I started changing.  It didn't happen over night and it wasn't quick.  I use to cuss alot.  It took a while to get over that.  Part of the problem is that our bodies have formed habits (some call this bondage).  It's kind of like an addiction our minds and bodies have and it takes time to kick those habits.  This time that we are working on these habits is the "sanctification" process.  This young man is/has been dealing with hateful feelings towards a particular group of people that he is associating you with.  He may not even see this behavior as a sin.  I know there are things I see as sin today, that I did not see as sin 5 years ago.  I think that he is young, and has a lot to learn.  He is weak in his knowledge of the Bible if he can justify doing what ever he wants.  He needs to read Romans 6.  Paul ask are we to continue in our sin because we are saved?  ... "May it never be!!" Paul says.  In chapter 6 Paul addresses the people who believed they could do whatever they wanted because they are saved.

I agree that what this young man is doing is wrong.  This is his particular habit that he has to break, and deal with.  I am dealing with my own mental habits and I would guess that every single member of this board has a mental or physical bondage they are dealing with.  Yes ... I'm forgiven.  No .... it does not justify continuing doing it.

I don't know the answer for you because I don't really know your heart.  If you really don't care and you really don't want to make up with him and really don't want to forgive him and want to remain as things are (which I don't think based on your posts), then just let things remain as they are.  But ... if you want there to be peace between you and (if possible) a friendship, then I agree with a previous poster.  I say you should forgive him in your heart.  Accept that he is wrong in his justification and he has done so because of ignorance of the doctrine of Grace.  Then when you are at peace in your heart, go to him and talk with him.  No matter how irate he gets, no matter how justified you may feel ... continue to talk to him in a calm manner and explain how he makes you feel.  Explain that you want things to change.  Explain that you want to know if there is anything you two can do to change this situation.  Don't throw Christianity in his face in a negative way.  That will only put him on the defensive.  But, if you can say it lovingly, you can say something like "Do you think Jesus would want us to be friends?"   Remember ... "Blessed are the peace-makers" Jesus tells us.

I feel for you and your situation, and I hope things work out.  Keep us up to date, I'm sure many of us would love to hear if your relationship with him changes for the better in any way.

I hope you have a great day.
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« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2003, 11:27:53 AM »

Do you guys have a football team there.  If you do, tell 2 of the biggest lineman you have that so-n-so is picking on you, and let them do the rest.  Don't worry.  Problem solved.   Grin
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« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2003, 11:55:18 AM »

He may not even see this behavior as a sin.  
This entire reply was well written, and I agree with your presentation, however my understanding was he knew what he was doing was wrong. He just figured being 'saved' gave him license to hurt.

The conversation went something like this (no exaggeration, I swear):

me: ____, you HAVE to be nice to me.
him: No, I don't HAVE to be nice to you.
me: Yes you do.  It has to do with what you do every Sunday.
him: I go to church.  What does being Christian have to do with this?
me: You're a Christian - you supposed to be nice to people and be a good person.
him: Nope.  All I have to do is accept Jesus.  I can be as mean to you as I like.  I just have to account for it when I die.  
me: So when you account for it, do you get in trouble?
him: Nope.  I just account for it and go straight to heaven.  You, on the other hand, go to hell.
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« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2003, 12:16:02 PM »

Iíve got an idea. If he is still moving your posters around why not print up some of these verses that some have shared with you and put them on the wall behind the poster. Like this one from Ollie
Hebrews 10:26.  For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Or these:

James 1:12  Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
1 John 4:12  No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
James 2:24  Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
1 John 3:23  And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
 
I am sure there are many more you could add. Hide them all over the place. Places he would only see if he was sticking his nose where it doesnít belong.
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John 6:29  Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
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« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2003, 12:34:39 PM »

Good idea, LC.  I like mine better though....
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« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2003, 01:33:30 PM »

I agree that he probably isn't a Christian. In that case, he's probably a tortured soul, either from intense jealousy or low sel-esteem. If you can see him from the perspective of bitter unhappiness, AAAA, you will feel intense sorrow for him rather than be offended by him. I would simply try to stay away from him rather than engage in a power struggle that you're surely going to lose because he is capable of going to lower depths to hurt you than you are to hurt him. If you try to hurt him, it will backfire because he will accuse you of being no better than him.  The best way to deal with him is simply to acknowledge, not to him, but just to yourself, just how miserable he is and pray for him. If you acknowledge it to him, then it will only anger him because he will see it as you trying  to hurt him.  Then you're still playing his game which he obviously loves. Only when you ignore him will he have no reason to continue the game.
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« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2003, 02:04:00 PM »

I agree that he probably isn't a Christian. In that case, he's probably a tortured soul, either from intense jealousy or low sel-esteem. If you can see him from the perspective of bitter unhappiness, AAAA, you will feel intense sorrow for him rather than be offended by him. I would simply try to stay away from him rather than engage in a power struggle that you're surely going to lose because he is capable of going to lower depths to hurt you than you are to hurt him. If you try to hurt him, it will backfire because he will accuse you of being no better than him.  The best way to deal with him is simply to acknowledge, not to him, but just to yourself, just how miserable he is and pray for him. If you acknowledge it to him, then it will only anger him because he will see it as you trying  to hurt him.  Then you're still playing his game which he obviously loves. Only when you ignore him will he have no reason to continue the game.

GO WITH THE FOOTBALL PLAYERS!!!
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« Reply #27 on: October 03, 2003, 02:18:25 PM »

He may not even see this behavior as a sin.  
This entire reply was well written, and I agree with your presentation, however my understanding was he knew what he was doing was wrong. He just figured being 'saved' gave him license to hurt.

I say he is not fully aware of what he is saying because he doesn't seem to grasp that salvation does not give him free reign to sin.  Somewhere along the line, he has gotten a wrong doctrine on what Grace means.  He may say he knows it's a sin, but his isn't grasping what this means.

I disagree with anyone who says this person is not saved.  You do not know that.  All of us Christians have done stuff that is very un-Christian.  Is there no one here who has gossiped, use sarcasm in a mean way, talked about people behind their back, looked down on certain individuals.  Is there no one on this board who has sinned and fully knew that it was wrong as they continued to do it?  If we looked long enough at each individual's actions, we could possible come to the conclusion that no one is saved.  We have all been hypocrites from time to time.  I ask you to hold your judgement (like we have any right to judge a man's salvation) and accept that this man is struggling with stuff like we all do.  Let's agree that what he is doing it un-Christian like, but to say that he is not saved is very unfair.  If you looked at my life shortly after I was saved, you might have come to that same conclusion about me.  God worked with me after my salvation and it took time to get to where I am now.  God was patient with me even when others were not.  We have no right to judge this man's salvation based on a couple of posts and based on this one trait of bad behavior.

I also do not agree that AAAA should just ignore him.  That does not solve the problem.  Normally, people don't like confrontation.  I can understand that.  If we left all the angry, mean people to their own devices, then what are we doing here on earth?  Why don't we (Christians) just kill ourselves now?  Paul hinted at this in Phillipians 1:21-25.  Because we know we have a purpose here on earth.  To show Christ to others.  To be the body of Christ here on earth.  We are not called to walk away from sinners (although I'm sure someone can pull a few verses that say we are).  If you look at Christianity as a whole, we are to love everyone.  We are to not judge anyone (especially their salvation).  Romans 8:34 - "Who is the one who condemns?"  Christianity is about relationships with people.  It is about love.  It is about being peace makers.  Luke 12:58 tells us to make peace with our opponents before we go to the judge (who is God).  My advice is to make peace with this man and through your obedience to God and peace, you will both be blessed.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2003, 02:21:33 PM by Romans8_1 » Logged
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« Reply #28 on: October 03, 2003, 08:02:47 PM »


~AAAA

It's gotten so bad that I recently applied for a room change but unfortunately I found out today that all of the dorms are full...with waiting lists.  So I'm stuck.   Grin Grin Grin

Sound like the model Christian to you? I think he is doing a GRRREAT Job Grin

A4C - nice sarcasm, but it wasn't called for. "sarcasm"Huh

 Grin
« Last Edit: October 03, 2003, 08:04:11 PM by Ambassador4Christ » Logged



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« Reply #29 on: October 03, 2003, 09:37:08 PM »

Romans, it's great that you want to see him saved and I love that you're willing to be concerned for his eternal state.

But I'm thinking it isn't just the behavior that is making people question this guy's salvation-it's the doctrine. And it's true we don't know everything, but here is someone who says that he can do whatever he wants and then God will save him. This is not at all the spirit behind Revelation chapters 1-3, or those verses above. God saves us through faith, but there's a tremedous difference between faith and presumption.

The question is, can he be saved by this doctrine he's carrying? It's a valid thing to question. Because if he doesn't have the right doctrine, he may miss the boat unless someone points out to him that this kind of faith cannot save.

I share your concern for his salvation, and for AAAA's wellbeing in all of this, too. She's saying his behavior is causing her grief.  Embarrassed
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