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Author Topic: Error in Doctrine  (Read 8331 times)
Petro
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« Reply #45 on: May 15, 2003, 02:03:48 AM »

Harry,

So are you saying, the Jesus of the New Testament is the God of the Old Testament??

Because as you know, Jesus claimed to be the same "I am" of the Old Testament, and John opens his Book of Revelation with this revelation;  "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" (Rev 1:1), where He is revealed as that same God..

Jesus said;

Jhn 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31  Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32  Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33  The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

You may not understand what or whom Jesus, claimed to be, here at this passage, but the Jews who took up stones , understood perfectly well, that He stated, that He was God..

when He said;;

I and my father are one

This is the way, we understand the passage, and we agree, Jesus is the same Creator God of the Old Testament..

He still speaks today, to whosoever, will hear;

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.  (Jhn 8:24)  NWT

Thanks for sharing this truth..


Petro
« Last Edit: May 15, 2003, 02:18:31 AM by Petro » Logged

Petro
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« Reply #46 on: May 15, 2003, 03:16:45 AM »

Quote
author  AngelicMan

                           Here's an error
 The idea that a Son of God sent from eternity by the Father came down and took upon Himself human form collapses as totally erroneous and is exploded on considering the passages from the Word in which Jehovah Himself says that He is the Saviour and Redeemer, as the following:
 

Well this is interesting....How do you explain the next verse; it is one of many, which state plainly, states, that Jesus, is one and the same..

Feel free to compare this with, your verses;

Quote
Am I not Jehovah, and there is no God beside Me? There is no righteous God and Saviour beside Me. Isa. 45:21, 22.

I am Jehovah, and there is no Saviour beside Me. Isa. 43:11.
 
I am Jehovah your God, and you are not to acknowledge any God beside Me, and there is no Saviour beside Me. Hosea 13:4.

 


For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.  (Lk 2:11)

And the Apostle Paul testifies; as he speaks concerning Jesus;

For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.   (1 Tim 4:10)

and again;

  For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.
  Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
  Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
  But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:
(2 Tim 2:7-10)

  But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;
  To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.  (Titus 1:3-4)

Certainly if, after having escaped defilements of the world by an accurate knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,......... (2 Pet 2:20)



So Jesus the SaviorGod,  is not a God, He is the one and only creator God, as the scripture declares at Jhn 1:1..and rrevealed to be Jesus at vs 14 of the Gospel of John..


Petro
« Last Edit: May 15, 2003, 03:24:24 AM by Petro » Logged

AngelicMan
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« Reply #47 on: May 15, 2003, 06:43:57 AM »

Harry,

So are you saying, the Jesus of the New Testament is the God of the Old Testament??

Because as you know, Jesus claimed to be the same "I am" of the Old Testament, and John opens his Book of Revelation with this revelation;  "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" (Rev 1:1), where He is revealed as that same God..

Jesus said;

Jhn 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31  Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32  Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33  The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

You may not understand what or whom Jesus, claimed to be, here at this passage, but the Jews who took up stones , understood perfectly well, that He stated, that He was God..

when He said;;

I and my father are one

This is the way, we understand the passage, and we agree, Jesus is the same Creator God of the Old Testament..

He still speaks today, to whosoever, will hear;

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.  (Jhn 8:24)  NWT

Thanks for sharing this truth..


Petro

The Divine Trinity is in Our Lord Jesus Christ. That's why He asked that we follow Him, to take up the cross, that He is the way, the truth and the life

The Father and He are one as Soul and Body or as Divine and Human in Jesus Christ. In Jesus Christ the Divine and Human make one God, as in John 14: 8," He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father."

This is what the Lord meant:
"I am come from God" (John 8:42) - the Body came forth from the Soul.

"The Son can do nothing of Himself, - but what He seeth the Father do" (John 5:19) - the Body can do nothing of Itself, but what it is directed to do by the Soul.

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16: 16) - The Messiah, the Body of the Infinite itself, which alone is Life-in-itself.

"This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17) - the Divine Human in which it pleased the Lord to dwell while on earth.

"My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28) - the Soul is greater than the Body, since it directs it.

"No Man cometh unto the Father but by Me" (John 14:6) - Just as we cannot know a man's soul except insofar as his body reveals it.

All Christians should approach and worship the Lord only, because He the Father in the Human. Jehovah God became Man so we may approach Him as Man. It is the only way we can be able to understand God, by approaching Him as a Man.

 The Lord's prayer was meant for Him, not another person. He is the Our father in heaven.

Harry[/b]
« Last Edit: May 16, 2003, 06:13:12 AM by AngelicMan » Logged
Petro
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« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2003, 01:15:15 PM »

Harry,

So are you saying, the Jesus of the New Testament is the God of the Old Testament??

Because as you know, Jesus claimed to be the same "I am" of the Old Testament, and John opens his Book of Revelation with this revelation;  "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" (Rev 1:1), where He is revealed as that same God..

Jesus said;

Jhn 10
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28  And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31  Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32  Jesus answered them, Many good works have I showed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33  The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

You may not understand what or whom Jesus, claimed to be, here at this passage, but the Jews who took up stones , understood perfectly well, that He stated, that He was God..

when He said;;

I and my father are one

This is the way, we understand the passage, and we agree, Jesus is the same Creator God of the Old Testament..

He still speaks today, to whosoever, will hear;

I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.  (Jhn 8:24)  NWT

Thanks for sharing this truth..


Petro

The Divine Trinity is in Our Lord Jesus Christ. That's why He asked that we follow Him, to take up the cross, that He is the way, the truth and the life

The Father and He are one as Soul and Body or as Divine and Human in Jesus Christ. In Jesus Christ the Divine and Human make one God, as in John 14: 8," He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father."

This is what the Lord meant:
"I am come from God" (John 8:42) - the Body came forth from the Soul.

"The Son can do nothing of Himself, - but what He seeth the Father do" (John 5:19) - the Body can do nothing of Itself, but what it is directed to do by the Soul.

"Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" (Matt. 16: 16) - The Messiah, the Body of the Infinite itself, which alone is Life-in-itself.

"This is My beloved Son, in Whom I am well pleased" (Matt. 3:17) - the Divine Human in which it pleased the Lord to dwell while on earth.

"My Father is greater than I" (John 14:28) - the Soul is greater than the Body, since it directs it.

"No Man cometh unto the Father but by Me" (John 14:6) - Just as we cannot know a man's soul except insofar as his body reveals it.

All Christians should approach and worship the Lord only, because He the Father in the Human. Jehovah God became Man so we may approach Him as Man. It is the only way we can be able to understand God, by approaching Him as a Man.

 The Lord's prayer was meant for Him, not another person. He is the Our father in heaven.

Harry[/b]


Harry,

I see, you do understand exactly what the Jews understood, when Jesus, said "I and my Fatherm are one"

This has only been revealed to you by The Father from heaven..Praise Him..

You are correct..I agree totally with you.  Good post.
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