How's President Bush doing?

[nChrist]

Oklahoma Howdy to Rafter,

I don't think you will find many here who support abortion. You spoke from your heart on this matter, and I can tell you for sure that abortion grieves the hearts of most Christians. Regarding a comparison of mourning between abortion and 9-11-2001, I think your point was valid. Mass, barbaric, and senseless murder defines them both. The difference is the magnitude, the number of victims, and ending it. I had high hopes that Roe vs. Wade would be overturned this year.  Many Christians here, including me, have been activists in trying to stop abortion for many years. I haven't forgotten and I won't stop. I don't advocate violence or illegal means to stop this. If abortion is part of the end times, we won't be able to stop it. The same would be true about any other event of the end times. I think that we can do all that is legally possible and pray that God's Will be done.

On a side note, my son is also in the Gulf. He firmly believes the terrorists should be engaged on their soil, not our soil involving our innocents. He is very proud of what he's doing and firmly believes he is serving his future children and grandchildren. I respect my son for what he believes and I agree with him.

In Christ,
Tom  

[rafter]

Thank you Tom for your reply. It is nice to hear from someone else who has children over there. My son and daughter-in-law are both in Baghdad. My son's has 3 children back here. It just gets difficult that's all.
  I should not have said anything about abortion, because I really was not pointing a finger at GW on this. Only that we have problems here that need to be addressed. We seem to be crumbling from the inside in this nation. Drug use is another major problem. And sometimes I feel we need to take the plank out of our own eye. So we can see clearly. By we, I mean as a country.
  I think Pslam's gave a pretty accurate discription of the job being done in the office of president. So I think I will leave it at that.
  And you are right I was speaking from the heart and did not say anything with the intent of stirring things up.
   God bless all who name the name of Jesus Christ.
       Denny

[Symphony]

Yes, rafter opines the familiar refrain, God's own lamentation,  of 1 Samuel 8:11:  "These will be the ways of the king who will reign over you:  he will take your sons and appoint them to his chariots and to be his horsemen, and to run before his chariots....    (v.13) He will take your daughters to be perfumers and cooks and bakers.  He will take the best of your fields and vineyards..."

No, Bush is no King.  But we are a nation and, a nation of the world and, we do behave as such(taxes, conscription, worldly courts who increasingly flaunt their authority in the face of the Most High(sodomy)).

True, rafter's children, as of yet, are volunteers, not conscripted.

Yes, we are rotting from the inside out.

God's lamentation was that we want a king of our choosing--and so He gave it to us--first, in the form of King Saul.  But God makes clear in no uncertain terms that it was for their hardness of heart that they wanted a King, and because they no longer loved the Lord...   And Bush, or any other "president", in our representative republic, is definitely a "king" of our choosing.  We do choose who will "rule" over us, in effect.

"And the Lord said to Samuel, 'Hearken to the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being king over them...'"  (I Samuel 8:7)

Psalm119 makes some good points, as does rafter and most everybody here.

Maybe one question is, To what degree can Christians be involved actively in the secular society at all any more?  President Bush is a perfect living example to that critical issue:  His carefully worded reply to the reporter, at the end of July, just before leaving for his much needed August  vacation, as to how he regarded the sodomy issue.  He came as close to condemning the behavior as sin, while still cautioning about the mote in our own eye, as you could really diplomatically get.

But for the believer--for the prophet of old, and for the Christian of today--is even that what we are suppose to be doing??   Hmmmm.  When the harlot was thrown at Jesus' feet, did he condemn her for her harlotry?   Well, actually, yes, but not by picking up a stone with all the others.  Actually, instead, he appealed to the mote in one's own eye argument--which is really how Bush handled it, too--but at the same time cautioning her to "...go and sin no more".  Bush did, in so many words, really call homosexuality a sin.  Unfortunately, the White House came out the day following backpeddling on that, as I recall.

My own tack is to call a spade a spade.  Homosexuality(in this example, with Bush), is an abomination.  Would I say that publicly??   Yes, I think I definitely would.  I think maybe I better.  Did Bush do right by qualifying that?  Hm.

The risk that Bush was really doing it just in order to secure his position or to help insure reelection is just too great for me to avoid thinking.  We all have our "positions" to protect.  The risk is that we qualify our witness in order to protect our own safety.  Jesus said in Rev. 3:20  he will spew us out for our lukewarmness.

Jesus put himself in the exact opposite light.  Jesus put himself exactly where they could get him, regardless.  But again, even Jesus was "diplomatic"--or, perhaps, at least towards the harlot, forgiving, or loving.

But Psalm119 makes good points about Bush and the Republicans--that even they are compromising and, arguably, are just conservative Democrats, really.

[Symphony]

But upon meditating further, now here two hours later, I'm thinking we as Christians can't afford to be compromising Jesus Christ.

There is only one truth, the truth that is in Jesus.  It is not "one of many faiths".

There is only one "faith", (...one baptism, one....?--isn't there a verse to that effect?).

I don't think we as Christians can afford to be giving anything other than that impression only.

And, as Psalm119 says, a member of that Methodist Church, which is another way of just saying "socialist"--that is, keyed into this mounting, world movement of socialism.  That may be a bit extreme, b/c Bush is avoiding the UN(well, sort of... ).   Oops, even there he's compromising.  Hmmm.

Yeah, almost just by definition, if you're involved in elected positions, etc., I'm thinking you better get out.

"See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ..."  (Colossians 2:

Maybe my ultimate point here though is that we still,under obligation, are praying for P. Bush, and his cabinet...

  In Jesus' Name

[nChrist]

Thank you Tom for your reply. It is nice to hear from someone else who has children over there. My son and daughter-in-law are both in Baghdad. My son's has 3 children back here. It just gets difficult that's all.
 

Oklahoma Howdy to Rafter,

Yes, it is difficult, more for you than myself. My son is single and has only himself to worry about. I can only imagine how difficult it is for families with children. My son is on an aircraft carrier, so my fear for his safety could not be compared to your concerns for your children. I will pray for you and your family.

You made many valid points in your post. I agree with you completely that America is rotting from the inside. I haven't given up hope on that issue either. It appears there is a loud and demanding minority who wish to turn away from, ignore, and hide Almighty God from public view. The opposite is the foundation of America, and God has richly blessed this nation. It is past time for Christians to wake up, stand up, speak up, and demand our country back. Many Christians are doing just that, and the numbers are growing by the minute.

In Christ,
Tom

[rafter]

Maybe my ultimate point here though is that we still,under obligation, are praying for P. Bush, and his cabinet...

Great post Symphony. And just to futher your ultimate point. We were under obligation to pray for Clinton and his cabinet also. Which I did, and refused to gossip about him. Even though I felt he was wrong, wrong, wrong. I still prayed for him. Sometimes we just have to be obedient.

Thanks Tom for your kind post. The compassion in it brought tears to my eyes. Sometimes I don't really know how upset I am about having my children in harm's way. I can't imagine how the people in the middle east deal with it day in and day out. At least I have the Rock Christ Jesus to cling to. And I have not given up hope on our decaying nation either. But to be honest I have been close this year on giving up on not only this nation, but unsaved family members also. I think it is in each one of our lives, the God given abilty to stand up and speak the truth. And to say it loud and often. And yes they will hate us for it, but if not we will hate our selves for not doing it.

One final note, to whom it may concern I pose a question.
 When did war ever bring peace? And how are we going to make things better in Iraq when we can't take care of our own back yard??
 Oh yah, Lord guide our president and protect his heart against the ememy, whether it is the flesh, the world, or the devil. Direct his thoughts and cause him to make wise decisions. Not just for our country, but for your glory.

     In the Mihgty Name of Jesus,   Amen

[toucan]

How's President Bush Doing?  He's doing an excellent job at attempting to do no one else could or would in the world.  Let's stop thinking about ourselves for once and realize what comes around goes around in the world.  Sadaam is an evil being and he shopuld be ashamed at all the lives he's taken as a leader, taking advantage of the weak and poor that he created.  The other evil in Korea is exactly the same evil and keeps his people starving and weak, while the military is strong.  Our leaders in the congress and senate are traitors for downgrading President Bush for his leadership attempts when they are only thinking of their gain.  Our overall mindset is greed.  We all need to support our President for his first term in office and then support him for the second.  

[Symphony]