Rapture........

[musicllover]

HI,
    I'm swamped with home work these days, my Mom has been in the hosp, we had a hearing for my foster son, (judge ruled against a new trial  ) and I'm huffin and a puffin tryin to meet myself before I come when I should be going or going when I should be coming...... so forgive me I've not had a chance to read thru many of the posts or add to the thread of One Nation Under God. Email if you need to if you need more on that subject.
     I posted part of this on another thread that seemed to die out, and I wanted to hear some input on this. Some want to say that the rapture is a new teaching that began in the  1800's. WRONG, This is bogus, a fabrication to make the "rapture" look untrue, and unbelievable, the rapture is NOT a teaching of some sect or cult. The rapture has been debated for centeries, and the debate exists from the scriptures themselves.  The word rapture maybe a new way to say it,  used more in this day and age, but it means the same as what the scriptures is saying about the coming of the Lord. Read the following and make your own decesion. I would also like to know the name of the author who wrote this book about Irving and the vision stuff.  

the early church fathers on the "rapture" as Talk about in 1 Thes 4:17, and 1 Cor. 15:51-55.
The following are cuts and pastes from  the teaching of Justin Marytr.  http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/justin.html

Justin Martyr was a second century Christian apologist. His apology is dedicated to Emperor Antoninus, who ruled from 138-161. His apology may be dated internally from the statement in chapter 6 that "Christ was born one hundred and fifty years ago under Cyrenius." Since Quirinius entered office in the year 6 C.E. according to Josephus, the apology may be dated to the year 156 CE.
A dialogue this early church father had with Trypho.
      CHAPTER LII -- JACOB PREDICTED TWO ADVENTS OF CHRIST.

"And it was prophesied by Jacob the patriarch that there would be two advents of Christ, and that in the first He would suffer, and that after He came there would be neither prophet nor king in your nation(I proceeded), and that the nations who believed in the suffering Christ would look for His future appearance......

Found at
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/justinmartyr-dialoguetrypho.html

And this I found to be very very interesting.

CHAPTER LXXX -- THE OPINION OF JUSTIN WITH REGARD TO THE REIGN OF A THOUSAND YEARS. SEVERAL CATHOLICS REJECT IT. ........ From Trypho to Justin M.
.....And Trypho to this replied, "I remarked to you sir, that you are very anxious to be safe in all respects, since you cling to the Scriptures. But tell me, do you really admit that this place, Jerusalem, shall be rebuilt; and do you expect your people to be gathered together, .............

Justing response, please go to this sight and read in its completeness.

........ But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be
built, adorned, and enlarged, the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.....

CHAPTER CX -- A PORTION OF THE PROPHECY ALREADY FULFILLED IN THE CHRISTIANS: THE REST SHALL BE FULFILLED AT THE SECOND ADVENT.

And when I had finished these words, I continued: "Now I am aware that your teachers, sirs, admit the whole of the words of this passage to refer to Christ; and I am likewise aware that they maintain He has not yet come; or if they say that He has come, they assert that it is not known who He is; but when He shall become manifest and glorious, then it shall be known who He is. And then, they say, the events mentioned in this passage shall happen, just as if there was no fruit as yet from the words of the prophecy. O unreasoning men! understanding not what has been proved by all these passages, that two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonoured, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High,......

Blessings

[Psalm 119]

Dear Musiclover,

The "secret pre-tribulation rapture" is what is in dispute. This doctrine is directly traced backed to Margaret McDonald and the Irvingites (named after Edward Irving) in the 1830's. Her false visions were documented by a Robert Norton M.D.

I truly believe that Jesus will come back for His Church. That the dead in Christ will rise. But He is coming once more....not twice! The early believers believed that the I Thess 4:17 verse pertained to the ressurrection ;not a secret rapture. There is a difference in the two.

I hope this clarify's some things.

Psalm 119

ps please check this site out.

http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/timeline/index.html

[Royo]

I agree much with what Psalm 119 has said.
The rapture of the church has always been around, as per the teachings of Paul in 1 Thess. 4.16,17, and 2 Thess 2.1-8.
As Psalm 119 has said, it is the 'pre-trib rapture' that only came in to being in the 1800's.
As I understand it, the church is to be raptured, or "caught up", before the wrath of God is poured out upon the world. As Jesus said, "But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be." [Matt. 24.37]. Before God poured His wrath upon the world in a flood, He made Noah and his family safe. So also will He take the church out of the world before He pours out His wrath upon the world in those last 7 years.

Most scholars call this last seven years the 'seventieth week of Daniel', because it is Daniel that speaks of these last seven years in Daniel 9.27. And he also speaks of the abomnation of desolation that will take place in "middle of the week", which is also spoken of by Jesus in Matt. 24.15, "therefore when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place."  Take note of "standing in the holy place", for as we look at 2 Thess. 2.1-8, Paul speaks of "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering to Him," and goes on to say that this "will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." This is the "standing in the holy place" that Jesus was speaking of in Matt. 24.15.
So, the "gathering to Him," of 2 Thess. 2.1, or the "caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air," cannot take place until after this "abomination of desolation" spoken of by both Jesus and Daniel, which Daniel says takes place in "the middle of the week".

So for people to say that the rapture happens before the seven years begin goes against what the Word of God teaches.

If you look at Rev. chapter 7, you will see that the first half of it is God sealing 144,000 Jews against His wrath that is about to be poured out in the trumpets and bowls. And the second half of Rev. 7 shows the church in heaven after having been raptured. Then in chapter 8 of Rev. we see the beginning of God's wrath with the trumpet judgements.

There is so much more to see, but I pray this helps you to see the truth, or lie, about the 'pre-trib' rapture. I hear so many Christians saying things like, "well, at least we don't have to worry, cause we won't be here." They also think, that because of this, that they don't really need to get prepared. (spiritually). So many think that they can just keep living their worldly life, and that one day soon they will be raptured, and go to be with God, never having had to go through any tribulations at all. Won't they be surprised?

Love in Christ our Lord.  Roy.

[musicllover]

Dear Musiclover,

The "secret pre-tribulation rapture" is what is in dispute. This doctrine is directly traced backed to Margaret McDonald and the Irvingites (named after Edward Irving) in the 1830's. Her false visions were documented by a Robert Norton M.D.

I truly believe that Jesus will come back for His Church. That the dead in Christ will rise. But He is coming once more....not twice! The early believers believed that the I Thess 4:17 verse pertained to the ressurrection ;not a secret rapture. There is a difference in the two.

I hope this clarify's some things.

Psalm 119

ps please check this site out.

http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/timeline/index.html

Good evening,
           OK,    I understand what your saying. I guess I'm stuck in a rut, from a previous Christian sight there was a big debate on the rapture teaching as a whole.  I got the impression that some here, also believed this as a false teaching, not relevant to today, that it comes from cultic like beliefs startred by such people as this McDonnel women.
     As far as any "secret" pre trib rapture........ no I don't believe it is secret, as this Mcdonnel women's false vision fortold. Skippping that bit of taboild heresey, I do believe in a pre trib rapture. NOT secret to the "church", gee we are talking pretty loudly for it to be a secret.....lol. But those who are left behind might be thinking some kind secret, monsters from outer space or spontanious combustion of lots of Jesus fanatics. And yes there will be some who will know the truth.....
      So that was why I posted from the teaching of J Martyr. To show that this isn't some  bogus, new age, or newer than the scriptures teaching.  Even tho its wrote in the scriptures, its hard for me to understand,there are some who don't believe in a rapture at all.  
        I completely understand the pre trib, and mid trib, and pre trib teachings. And the support of the scripture for each view. There are still more valid reasons for me to believe in a pre trib rapture. I don't believe that people who believe in a mid trib, or post rapture are doomed to hell. I clarify that because some thing that is what the big debate is all about. Not for me, its that fact that a pre trib rapture will remove the body of Christ, and those who don't believe in Jesus coming son of God, ect ect ect.....will live thru tribulations.
       I do wonder, will you be removed WHEN ever it happens if you believe in "A" rapture? Will believing in a mid trib rapture cause you to miss the "pre trib rap"

What do some of you think?

        I find it hard to keep the all the terms seperate, so I stick pretty hard to the way I understand it, with the support of the scripture, but yet I want to remain teachable. But honestly it does get confusion sometimes.
Terms like
      Last days.......,WHEN, are they now, or yet to come? I believe the scriptures say they are now, beginning at the birth of Jesus until Jesus returns to earth.  One of the many  question with in the rapture teaching.
     They taught last days in the times of Jesus, soooo HOW much closer are we to that day? But anyway.

    Rapture....... Chirst is gong to come in the air and take every member of the church , both living and dead to Heaven, giving each a resurrected body.
     
       7 years of tribulation, are first 3 1/2 as good years, the anti christ sets himself up as a world ruler, good guy so to speak.  The last 3 1/2 years he reveals his true colors, breaks treaty with Isreal, abomination of descicration, and the one world system come into being, all one money, all one relegion, and all take mark of the beast or you die ect ect
     
       Pre trib rapture would be the removing of the Church  at the beginning of the 7 years of tribulation.

        Mid trib rapture......... the removal of the church at the middle of the tribulations, 3 1/2 years are left for those left on earth.

         post trib rapture........ the removal of the church (people of God) at the end of the 7 years of trib.

        Second coming of Christ, also called the second advent...... Christ and his angesl comes to defeat the anti christ and his followers at the battle of Armageddon. Kicks some devil booty. the second debate with in the rapture teachings.
       
        Millennium.........1000 years following the end of the Tribulations.
AND yet a third debate with in the raputre debate.

 To clarify my belief...... I believe in a pre trib raputre, 7 yys tribulation, and Christ returns bounds Satan for a 1000 yrs. As then end of that 1000 yrs (milleniumal reign), the devil is defeated and then thrown into hell for eternity. Pre trib rapture is NOT the second coming of Christ. My understanding is that since Christ at the pre trib rapture doesn't set foot on earth, he meets his church in the air. So maybe that will help with some of the confusion.
       
       Does that sound like laymans terms for the sake of all those who read? Is there any more terms that need to be clarified?  Its mind twister for any beginner to deal with. Even after several years of reading and learning I can still get mixed up. Learning to seperate the scripture from the rapture, and his second coming is confusing as well.
      Rev 1:3 Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it, for the time is near.
       So this is a promise to those who read and seek to understand. When its very hard to understand, God blesses our effort I believe. I love to talk end times, its like iron sharpening iron. We each dig into how we understand, being fair minded, not hard nosed. HOW many rapture threads have been started, and how many arguements arise from each? What about a understanding of how the scriptures can be read, and how the pre trib, and mid trib believers can be in unision together?  
     

[Royo]

Hello Musicllover.

I agree with most of what you said, except of course the 'timing' of the rapture. But that is neither here nor there.
As to something you said: I have no doubt that whenever it takes place, (pre, mid, post, etc.), every born again Christian will go. The Father God does not call the name of each Christian who is to be raptured; He simply calls the Holy Spirit out of the world, and anyone He lives in goes with Him. Our salvation is not based on works; and whether we go in the rapture is not dependent upon whether we believe in one, or the correct one. It is only based on whether the Holy Spirit of God lives in us.

Bless your seeking soul, and thank you for the fellowship.

Yours in Christ.   Roy.

[musicllover]

Hello Musicllover.

I agree with most of what you said, except of course the 'timing' of the rapture. But that is neither here nor there.
As to something you said: I have no doubt that whenever it takes place, (pre, mid, post, etc.), every born again Christian will go. The Father God does not call the name of each Christian who is to be raptured; He simply calls the Holy Spirit out of the world, and anyone He lives in goes with Him. Our salvation is not based on works; and whether we go in the rapture is not dependent upon whether we believe in one, or the correct one. It is only based on whether the Holy Spirit of God lives in us.

Bless your seeking soul, and thank you for the fellowship.

Yours in Christ.   Roy.

Royo,
      SO I again have to wonder what all the fuss is about. IS there any scripture that says believing in a mid trib compared to a pre trib rapture will keep anyone from hearing the trumpet calls. Not that I am aware of.......so I have to ask, Does it have to divide the church?
   What about NOT believing in ANY rapture? What are your feelings on that?
     I am curious as to any scriptures that explain this.
    Of coarse denying Christ will cause you lots of misery no matter if there is a rapture.
      I still believe that the "pre" trib rapture is an old teaching. And it depends on how you interpit the word. As I said before there are scripture to support both the pre and mid trib raptures.  I defiantly don't believe in the "secret" rapture. So does this McDonnel women say secret rapture or pre rapture??? I seem to be reading two diff understanding between Psalm and Royo. Wouldn't there would be a diff between "secret", and "pre" ?
     I want to get a little further understanding before I post the scriptures for a pre trib rapture? And still I wonder does it make any difference,as long as you believe in a rapture?

[twobombs]

A lot of US christians believe that the rapture occurs pre-trib
A lot of EU christians believe that the rapture occurs almost post-trib

As I look at the current state of affairs I say that both of them are right

You might say: " Why ? How is that Two Bombs ?"

The key for understanding both "camps" is their geographical location. Let me illustrate :

Let's say I live in a valley near the coast, and a good friend of mine lives on the side of a high hill adjacent to the valley, yet not visible for me, sea-side so to say. (example seen in: scotland)

Both me and my friend read the news and weather on the same channel, and the weather forecasts incoming clouds with rain.
Both me and my good friend get ready for the rain.

The next day the fields and house of my friend are soaked with water; yet I needed no raincoat whatsoever and my fields are dry.

What happened: The hillside stopped the clouds, and dumped all the water on the house and field of my friend.

Morale of this short story: Don't live to close to the coast

2nd morale of this short story: the hillside is the US; the valley the EU. When a terrorist threat comes in for the both of us (US & EU) the relative unprotected shores of the US coast will be a target for ships with bad cargo; yet the EU with all it's Islamic ppl and moderate mild politics for the Palestinian cause will be able to dodge the fire; the EU isn't very busy with the roaring of the sea, but is just building and making the economy stronger.

The US people especially on the coastal cities will die just before the tribulation start, in an event that the politics called upon themselves. So an US citisen can devotely pray and believe that he wi'll be in heaven the day that the trib starts; yet the average EU citisen never needs to believe that, not should he need to.

Even more; not all will die in that attack, maybe even those that believe that they will see the day of days when the Lord comes back to pick us up whilst still on our feet....

You see; these are the days that all prophecies that are spoken will come to pass; and when our Lord says that the Trib will include massive loss of live, insomuch that when time itself would not be speeded none would live to see the day.

Well, say it ain't so; those weapons aren't conventional. Just as the 9/11 attack wasn't conventional, so will the next attack be; unconventional ; i.e.: nuclear and chemical.

Many, many visions and prophecies from the start of the US republic (the first president), all the way through the fifties (the vision with the statue of liberty), the eighties (henry gruber)and until now (many more ie: David Wilkerson)

[musicllover]

A lot of US christians believe that the rapture occurs pre-trib
A lot of EU christians believe that the rapture occurs almost post-trib

As I look at the current state of affairs I say that both of them are right

You might say: " Why ? How is that Two Bombs ?"

The key for understanding both "camps" is their geographical location. Let me illustrate :

Let's say I live in a valley near the coast, and a good friend of mine lives on the side of a high hill adjacent to the valley, yet not visible for me, sea-side so to say. (example seen in: scotland)

Both me and my friend read the news and weather on the same channel, and the weather forecasts incoming clouds with rain.
Both me and my good friend get ready for the rain.

The next day the fields and house of my friend are soaked with water; yet I needed no raincoat whatsoever and my fields are dry.

What happened: The hillside stopped the clouds, and dumped all the water on the house and field of my friend.

Morale of this short story: Don't live to close to the coast

2nd morale of this short story: the hillside is the US; the valley the EU. When a terrorist threat comes in for the both of us (US & EU) the relative unprotected shores of the US coast will be a target for ships with bad cargo; yet the EU with all it's Islamic ppl and moderate mild politics for the Palestinian cause will be able to dodge the fire; the EU isn't very busy with the roaring of the sea, but is just building and making the economy stronger.

The US people especially on the coastal cities will die just before the tribulation start, in an event that the politics called upon themselves. So an US citisen can devotely pray and believe that he wi'll be in heaven the day that the trib starts; yet the average EU citisen never needs to believe that, not should he need to.

Even more; not all will die in that attack, maybe even those that believe that they will see the day of days when the Lord comes back to pick us up whilst still on our feet....

You see; these are the days that all prophecies that are spoken will come to pass; and when our Lord says that the Trib will include massive loss of live, insomuch that when time itself would not be speeded none would live to see the day.

Well, say it ain't so; those weapons aren't conventional. Just as the 9/11 attack wasn't conventional, so will the next attack be; unconventional ; i.e.: nuclear and chemical.

Many, many visions and prophecies from the start of the US republic (the first president), all the way through the fifties (the vision with the statue of liberty), the eighties (henry gruber)and until now (many more ie: David Wilkerson)

Two Tombs,
              .......lol. I'm not sure if I read this correctly? People dieing just before the rapture? I'm shaking my head, in wonderment. Is this science fiction or how you really understand it to be.
     I do believe that Islam is going to play a BIG part in the setting up of a world system, possibly even the anti Christ. So I guess I can agree of a few of your ideas. I've no doubt that if Islam had there way that we Christians would have been blown up had someone like Hussein had the bomb. WHich I believe he was trying to build.

[musicllover]

 OK, before we get off into outter space, My next question to any who want to answer.
   Is it possilbe that there is a pre trib raptrue and a mid trib rapture? NOt Christ setting foot on earht,  but the meeting in the air? How does this fit into scripture, are there any scripture that might support this? I really want people to think here, IF IF it makes no difference WHEN the ratpure happens, but that we believe that Jesus will return in the air,is the son of God, died, rose....... then wouldn't it be better for people to simple say yes I believe in the rapture, rather than pre, or mid. Not to argue over dates and times, cause honestly we aren't going to know those anyway. The real deal is to have Jesus in our hearts. And think about this, you believe in the rapture.......(any of them), One hour before this rapture takes place that the world has no idea is about to happen and you don't see the bus and cross the street in front of that bus, your probably dead, the next second. NOT believing in a Jesus let alone a rapture could prove a eternal mistake when hit by that bus. We just don't know when our time is up. BUT if we are here when the raputre happens......then those who believe are those that will meet Jesus in the air.
       Does this make any sense to anyone?

[twobombs]

I tried to illustrate my current views. These days and the coming years are complex times. As far as I know a lot stuff will happen at different places at the same time.

Only recently I found out that that a lot of people see that at the start of the Tribulation period the Gog-magog war would start. New information suggests an all-out attack on the coastal cities of the USA, whilst attacking Israel also.

[ollie]

 1 Thessalonians4:15.  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
 16.  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 17.  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 18.  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 1 Thessalonians5:1.  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
 2.  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
 3.  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
 4.  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
 5.  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
 6.  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.[/b]
 7.  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
 8.  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
 9.  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
 10.  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
 11.  Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

"Pre trib., mid trib., post trib" is not important just that God's people watch, be sober, and be ready at any and all times.

[musicllover]

1 Thessalonians4:15.  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
 16.  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 17.  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 18.  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 1 Thessalonians5:1.  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
 2.  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
 3.  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
 4.  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
 5.  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
 6.  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.[/b]
 7.  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
 8.  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
 9.  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
 10.  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
 11.  Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

"Pre trib., mid trib., post trib" is not important just that God's people watch, be sober, and be ready at any and all times.

Ollie,
      I most defiantly agree. Its been such a long hot debated subject that I fear the real meaning, and reason for the rapture is lost in the differing opinions. I find it very  refreshing to know that we can agree that most do believe in a rapture, as written in the scriptures. That is IS NOT something that needs to divide the brethren.
      Do you have an opinion of 2 raptures, pre, and mid?

[twobombs]

Oh, I agree that we need to be ready; but my work on the rapture is done with the knowledge that 'a good and obediant servant knows when his Master cometh'

And the verse you cited in tessalonians is proof that there is such a thing as a day and an hour.

'The thief in the night', 'no one knows the days and the hour' and 'ye know perfectly when the day of the Lord cometh'  ALL, I REPEAT, *ALL* refer to one jewish holliday called the feast of trumpets, ROSH HASHANAH, wich is the end of the Jewish year.

God's timing is perfect, it's just us that falter and fail to see the simplicity and the might of the plan of God with this earth.

Having said that I know that it is much better to espect Him; be ready and do His works. Then to know the year, day, hour, minute and second and not be active in the works of faith.

[ollie]

1 Thessalonians4:15.  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
 16.  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 17.  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 18.  Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
 1 Thessalonians5:1.  But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
 2.  For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
 3.  For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
 4.  But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
 5.  Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
 6.  Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.[/b]
 7.  For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
 8.  But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
 9.  For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
 10.  Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
 11.  Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

"Pre trib., mid trib., post trib" is not important just that God's people watch, be sober, and be ready at any and all times.

Ollie,
      I most defiantly agree. Its been such a long hot debated subject that I fear the real meaning, and reason for the rapture is lost in the differing opinions. I find it very  refreshing to know that we can agree that most do believe in a rapture, as written in the scriptures. That is IS NOT something that needs to divide the brethren.
      Do you have an opinion of 2 raptures, pre, and mid?

No opinions.

The bible tells of only one more coming of Jesus and that we only have the knowledge that the day of the Lord will come upon us as a thief in the night, and we should watch and be ready for this occurance as it will come unexpected and we should not be unaware that it will come.

[ollie]

Oh, I agree that we need to be ready; but my work on the rapture is done with the knowledge that 'a good and obediant servant knows when his Master cometh'

 Mark 13:34.  For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
 35.  Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
 36.  Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
 37.  And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.