Sons of God?

[Whitestone]

Hello all,
As I am a newbie, I hope I have chosen the appropriate forum in which to post this thread. I’ll learn as I go.

I met the Lord at 17 years of age. Now at 53 years I have the all too typical background of having “belonged” to a large number and variety of denominations and non-denominations. Through many  distractions, wrong turns and often traumatic course corrections, I am yet confident The Lord has the finishing of my faith firmly in hand. Those small tastes we get of the Living Water leave us always thirsting and seeking for more, and we “shall be filled”  Marvelous Grace!!

I am posting to get fellowship regarding something that has caught my attention this past year or so. A friend gave me a large number of books by authors from the so called “latter Rain” movement. George Haughton, George Warnock, Bill Britton…some others. I won’t go into detail about the content…I’m hoping some of you are familiar with it. What has stood out most to me is the matter of the “Manifest Sons of God” teaching in some of these works…especially Bill Britton. As with all but the most timid writings, it is easy to find reams of nay-saying and charges of blasphemy. I have read a great many of these accusations. I am disappointed to find that most if not all detractors fall on tradition as a bench mark against which they measure the “heresy” of the so-called cults they are examining. A statement of the author is quoted as if the very statement is proof of the false teaching. And then something is said about how this goes against the “traditional” teachings of the church. I find this weak and disturbing.

One of the supposedly heretical assertions made by some of these authors, is that, in effect, “we are being brought into such oneness with and conformity to the image of Christ, that His very nature and life and sonship is and will ultimately be fully ours. I have not yet found the Mormon-like assertion that we will be gods in some autonomous godhood of our own, but that is where the critics seem to always end up….mistakenly as far as I’ve studied.

My hope is that some fellowship could come forth to discuss what some of you hear in such scriptural terms as “the first born among many brethren”,  “are being transformed “metamorphos” into His image”, “bringing many sons to glory”, “The Glory You have given Me…I have given them”, We shall be like Him” many, many more.

Those who stand for "orthodoxy" in these debates  cause me to imagine the prodigal son preferring to reject the robe and the ring and the son status and just stay with the humble, contrite “I’m just a servant” style religion that he conceived while in the pig slop. My expectations have enlarged a hundred fold as I begin to contemplate that I am received as a son…into His household!!.

W.S

[Soldier4Christ]

The Latter Rain movement of the "Manifested Sons of God" teachings is not according to Biblical teachings. The Latter Rain is a modern day version of Gnosticism. It attempts to elevate themselves to a the same stature of God, exalting themselves while reducing that of the Creator. Many of them are self-proclaimed Prophets with teachings that are contrary to Biblical teachings. The majority of these individuals have given prophecy's with specific dates that have never come true.

As such these teachings are against the forum rules and will not be allowed to be posted here.

[Whitestone]

Amen Bro. Roger. I wholeheartedly agree with the stance on false teachings and prophesies. Your watchfulness is commendable. And I am aware of much of the decidedly abberent teachings of Latter Rain et al. I had hoped my post was clearly stated enough to assure that I am not promoting this doctrine or movement...I am, as a student and a seeker, wanting to understand the many scriptures regarding sonship and being conformed to His image. My interest was piqued regarding these things as I studied the writings of the above mentioned authors. I also study many other authors from dramatically different ends of the theological spectrum. There is an amazing lack of material on the topic of sonship in the greater body of traditional church teachings. I wondered if anyone could offer a studied response. The gnosticism and reducing of God's stature stuff is not at all applicable to any of the authors I've mentioned...their writings have too quickly and uninformedly been swept off into the gnosticism file. I notice many authors are included in the Christians Unite articles and sermons index who address these things.. If I worded myself poorly...so as to make you think I have come here to promote gnostic heresies...then the care I took was not enough. As I said above:

My hope is that some fellowship could come forth to discuss what some of you hear in such scriptural terms as “the first born among many brethren”,  “are being transformed “metamorphos” into His image”, “bringing many sons to glory”, “The Glory You have given Me…I have given them”, We shall be like Him” many, many more.

I honestly care to hear perspectives on the scriptures regarding sonship...not debate the ligitimacy of some fringe group. I have been a Christian for almost 40 years and I have never heard a sermon about the Sons of God....just the quick breeze-by. I've only read about it in the non mainstream writings of George Warnock, T.A. Sparks, Bill Britton, others....and in some of the older more thorough commentaries.

W.S.
   

[Soldier4Christ]

It was my misunderstanding and the reason for my post was to clarify what you meant for myself. We have many that come here that will post questions on such a subject and then quite slyly slip in their false teachings.

I think that this could be a wonderful subject to discuss and hope that perhaps others will join in. I will post what I can on it as I am able. If this thread however slips into the other arena, of the “Manifested Sons of God” teachings, it will be locked or deleted.

[Whitestone]

Wonderful..I'll start the ball, and set a standard of brevity for myself. I've read Andrew Murray, my favorite author, for too many years and have aquired his penchant for paragraph length sentences..I will be brief..I will be brief 

I'm kind of fixated right now on the parable of the prodigal son. This is from my own study and no authors influence that I'm aware of. Why did Jesus tell it? what was God the Son telling us? I took it for years as a story about a sinner  saved...or a backslider repenting, or even Israel's ultimate repentence. It is only recently that I've begun to see some depths in this parable that have taken my breath away. I now believe that the older brother is Israel...("all that I have has been yours all along") and the prodigal I see as the collective gentile Adam (and each of us individually)...He began in the parable as a son of full status. All the riches of his inheritance were his for the asking. His wandering and squandering took him to the farthest reaches of decadence and squalor until it could be truly said of him:

Eph 2:12
12. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
(KJV)

This son's humble return reminds me of the Samaritan woman's statement: " Even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from the master's table". And yet The Father's reception..even His running to the son while he was still a long way off, speak of such unimaginable grace. The joy and love expressed by the Father are heart wrenching and beautiful beyond all thought. Jesus has made a way for so much more than a kind of bowing, blissfull, and eternal servitude..("even his servants have plenty to eat"  thought the son) We are being returned to his household!!...the robe, the ring, the kisses and the feast are to be our portion "This my son was lost...and now he is found"..Praise God!


Eph 2:13-19
13. But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
14. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15. Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16. And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17. And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;[/b]
(KJV)

There are more layers to this..I'll pause for now.

W.S.

 

[nChrist]

Hello Whitestone,

I'll try to help you out with a few basics:

1 - Cults love to complain that they are swimming against the currents of tradition and orthodoxy. These sound better than the truth: false teaching that twists and violates the Truth of the Holy Bible.

2 - One general rule of thumb that helps to identify a cult involves the elevation and glory of man or self, instead of ALL GLORY GOING TO GOD. Several cults even attempt to deify man as god.

3 - Another general rule of thumb that helps to identify a cult is the denial of the absolute and eternal deity of God the Father, God the Son, or God the Holy Spirit. They are ONE ALMIGHTY GOD and they are THE CREATOR.

4 - The twisting or denial of the plain and pure plan of Salvation, JESUS CHRIST, and the Cross is one of the quickest and surest methods of identifying a cult. JESUS CHRIST is ALMIGHTY GOD - THE CREATOR - and HE died on the Cross for our sins. The ONLY way for Salvation is faith in JESUS CHRIST and accepting HIM as Lord and Saviour. HE did rise from the dead and is our LIVING LORD AND SAVIOUR.

There are really too many examples of FALSE TEACHING to mention. Piles of books have been written by false teachers, cults, and false religions. Just a list of their names would be too lengthy to post here, but the plain truths of the Holy Bible are posted here. They represent the WORD OF GOD, not the traditions or orthodoxy of man. I'll mention just a few Biblical Facts that are unquestioned:

• No man is Holy, righteous, or without sin.
• All men have sinned and are in desperate need of forgiveness because they are doomed to the curse of sin, death, and hell.
• Faith in JESUS CHRIST and HIS shed blood on the Cross for us is the ONLY way to Salvation (rescue from the curse of sin and death).
• We didn't deserve Salvation, and we didn't earn Salvation. JESUS CHRIST paid for our Salvation on the Cross as the ONLY PERFECT AND ETERNAL SACRIFICE FOR US.
• For us who are saved, it is GOD who began a work in us, and only GOD can finish that work. GOD will give us a Glorified Body at HIS appointed time.
• For us who are saved, GOD has given us many promises, and those promises will be fulfilled perfectly at HIS appointed time.

Bluntly, GOD'S WORD tells us that any man who teaches any other GOSPEL is accursed. See the next post.

Love In Christ,
Tom

John 10:27-28 NASB  "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

[nChrist]

GOOD NEWS!

1:  Romans 3:10 NASB  as it is written, "THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NONE WHO SEEKS FOR GOD; ALL HAVE TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME USELESS; THERE IS NONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE."

2:  Romans 3:23  NASB  for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

3:  Romans 5:12  NASB  Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned--

4:  Romans 6:23  NASB  For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

5:  Romans 1:18  NASB  For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,

6:  Romans 3:20  NASB  because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.

7:  Romans 3:27  NASB  Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith.

8:  Romans 5:8-9  NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.

9:  Romans 2:4  NASB  Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?

10:  Romans 3:22  NASB  even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction;

11:  Romans 3:28  NASB  For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.

12:  Romans 10:9  NASB  that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

13:  Romans 4:21  NASB  and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

14:  Romans 4:24 NASB  but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

15:  Romans 5:1  NASB  Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

16:  Romans 10:10  NASB  for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

17:  Romans 10:13  NASB  for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Thanks be unto GOD for HIS unspeakable GIFT!, JESUS CHRIST, our Lord and Saviour forever!

[Whitestone]

Indeed Bro. BEP...the Gospel is a glorious and eternal truth..inscrutable. Cults do abound in the land and can quickly be measured against the scripture and found wanting. The Scriptures you have shared are wonderful. Thank you.

I was wondering...Has anyone ever studied/looked into the matter of sonship as it is brought forth in scripture? I have read some authors, whom I believe have taken the matter to extremes..however it became evident as I studied these works that the converse extreme also exits...a general lack of teaching and exposition of the following scritpures. (Try for a moment to imagine that I am a non-cultist with a sincere desire to have open fellowship about these verses..a good old fasioned Bible study....and that I have no pre-conceptions)


Rom 8:19
19. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. (KJV)

Heb 2:10
10. For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. (KJV)

Gal 4:6
6. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. (KJV)

Rom 8:29
29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (KJV)

Eph 2:19
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; (KJV)

John 17:22-23
22. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23. I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
(KJV)

Eph 2:19-22
19. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20. And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21. In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22. In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
(KJV)

1 Cor 6:17
17. But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. (KJV)

1 Cor 12:13
13. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (KJV)

2 Cor 3:18
18. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. (KJV)

2 Cor 4:11
11. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. (KJV)

Rom 8:16
16.The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: (KJV)

Rom 8:17
17. And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (KJV)

Luke 15:22-24
22. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet:
23. And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry:
24. For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
(KJV)

Rev 1:6
6. And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (KJV)

Rev 5:10
10. And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. (KJV)


1 Pet 2:4-5
4. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5. Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
(KJV)[color]

I'm wearing out my mouse 

W.S.

[nChrist]

Hello Whitestone,

First, I must apologize because I see that you are new, and I don't think that I have welcomed you to Christians Unite, so WELCOME!

I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite. We have many mature Christians on the forum who have probably studied many facets of being a Child of the KING of KINGS. Just the fact that this world is NOT our home is very pleasant to consider. Our short life here is nothing in comparison to our Eternal Citizenship in Heaven.

There are many portions of the Bible that give us a glimpse of what it might be like for Eternity with JESUS CHRIST. Much is obviously not revealed in the Holy Bible and it would be wonderful beyond human imagination. A similar problem would exist in trying to define the full Riches of Christ. Some is revealed, and the Reality would be beyond our imagination. There are many like areas of study, and I was just thinking about a more simple example: the Glorified Body that GOD will give us at HIS appointed time. We can know many things from the Scriptures, but many things aren't revealed. We know that it isn't flesh and blood, and it's like unto HIS Glorious BODY. So, can we define and describe that BODY? It would be much more complex to define and describe what one day in Heaven would be like for a Child of the KING of KINGS. We have some beautiful glimpses in the Holy Bible, but much would be left to the imagination until GOD reveals it.

Love In Christ,
Tom

I am adequate, complete, equipped for every good work.

2 Timothy 3:17 NASB  so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

I am able to come boldly before the throne of grace to find mercy and grace.

Hebrews 4:16 NASB  Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

I am a child of God and I will resemble Christ when He returns.

1 John 3:1-2  See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

I am loved.

Revelation 1:5 NASB  and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To Him who loves us and released us from our sins by His blood--

Romans 5:8 NASB  But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

I am victorious.

Revelation 21:7 NASB  "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.

[Soldier4Christ]

A study on this subject is not complete if we take just one or two verses out of Romans 8. Those that go out in left field with it refuse to look at the rest of this chapter especially so verse 23.

Rom 8:23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

I don't have much time to go into this in detail but I strongly suggest a thorough study of the entire chapter and all related verses throughout the Bible. The TSK is quite helpful here.

I will say that we, Christians, are all a work in progress. The fullfillment of that work is when Jesus returns and gives us a glorified body.