Nativity debate gets nasty

[Soldier4Christ]

Nativity debate gets nasty
'This issue is related to the 'prince of peace,' not the 'prince of let's shout''

It was a virtual tug of war with baby Jesus Oct. 16, when more than 50 residents flooded the Berkley City Council chambers, including representatives from the American Civil Liberties Union, engaging in, at times, a nasty debate about whether a nativity scene can remain on City Hall property.
   
Berkley Mayor Marilyn Stephan was forced to quiet the boisterous crowd after the clapping and hollering began to disrupt the public comments section of the meeting, which lasted nearly two hours because of the nativity debate.
   
“This issue is related to the ‘prince of peace,’ not the ‘prince of let’s shout, be haughty and be nasty to one another,’” Stephan demanded.
   
The ACLU is charging that the presence of a nativity scene and a star of David on city property is an unconstitutional endorsement of Christianity and Judaism, and thus offensive to residents who are not of either faith.
   
A large portion of residents supported the idea that the 65-year-old figures be given to the Berkley Clergy Association for display on religious property.
   
But the majority passionately expressed their wish that the city stand up against the threat of a lawsuit.
   
“I’m concerned that the ACLU is trying to tell us what we can and cannot do,” said Judith Purdy.
   
“The ACLU wants to secularize America,” John Maggetti said to council members. “If the mere threat of a lawsuit makes any of you afraid, then you shouldn’t be sitting where you are. Let them sue. Let’s go to court.”
   
Diana Keefe named a law firm that has offered its legal services at no cost to the city if it decides to keep the nativity scene in place.
   
“We should not buckle to the pressure of the ACLU,” she said.
   
Meg Boker argued to keep the nativity scene where it is, saying that her children are inundated with immoral and objectionable material every day on television and the Internet, yet she has to fight for any kind of religious or spiritual symbols to be displayed in public.
   
“When we force religion indoors, we become less tolerant as a society,” she continued. “We never get to learn about our brothers and sisters.”
   
But Berkley resident Don DeLong stood firm in his beliefs.
   
“Nativity scenes in businesses, churches and homes are fine,” he said. “They do not belong on public taxpayer property. Not all residents are religious. Not all residents are Christians. Not all Christians (like) nativity scenes. (It can have) a chilling effect.”
   
Berkley resident Joe Dell is personally affected by this controversy. He said he twice spent many hours rebuilding the nativity figures for community display. But he conceded, calling for the “peaceful compromise” of giving them to the Berkley Clergy Association.
   
“It’s the easiest and simplest solution,” he said. “Let’s not make Berkley a national battleground on this issue.”
   
Local pastors agreed.
   
“It rightfully and truthfully belongs on the property of faith-based organizations,” said Peter Carlson, pastor of the Berkley Community Church.
   
“It’s not your job to promote our religion for us,” agreed Peter Moore, pastor of the Greenfield Presbyterian Church, adding that displaying a nativity scene alongside a figure of Santa Claus and Frosty the Snowman waters down its significance. “They are not ‘winter symbols’ of equal importance.”
   
Shirley Hanson, a Berkley resident who fought hard against taking prayer out of public schools 25 years ago, said she feels differently now.
   
“Through time, I’ve learned a lot,” she said. “If we go to court, we’re going to lose. I’m a realist and I know that (the nativity scene) is going to have to go. If (residents) feel very strongly, put one in your own front yard. Here we have a legal issue that cannot be resolved with emotion.”
   
An ad hoc committee, comprising three council members, the mayor, the city’s attorney and the director of public works, will meet once more to discuss the matter before bringing a recommendation before council. A decision will be made by council during an open meeting at a later date.

[airIam2worship]

Why is it that the ACLU calls themselves American Civil Liberties Union? They should call themselves athiests civil liberties union, seeing as they want to deny Christ in everything possible. 

I wonder would they be willing to represent American Christians, who want to have Christ in all aspects of their life? 

I doubt it 

[Brother Jerry]

I find many many  things utterly saddening in this article

But the majority passionately expressed their wish that the city stand up against the threat of a lawsuit.

Now this may or may not mean a majority of the people in the city...but apparently there is a majority that want it....so we must remember that.

“Nativity scenes in businesses, churches and homes are fine,” he said. “They do not belong on public taxpayer property. Not all residents are religious. Not all residents are Christians. Not all Christians (like) nativity scenes. (It can have) a chilling effect.”

Besides the fact that there is NOTHING in the Constitution that prohibits the display of anything on public property.  Let us also rememeber that State level constitutions may be different.  Let us also remember that we are talking about a system of government in which the majority rules....or is supposed to.  Now since this is on public land which anything in government is actually in all practical purposes public...and we vote to see what happens on a public level....with laws, officials, etc....and what determines the vote is the majority...then again majority rules...now if the majority wants the display on public property then the majority wins.  If you do not like that then you have four options.  1) go somewhere where you are the majority.  2) join the majority. 3) convince more people of your position.  4). Shut up.

I also am leary on a couple of the other comments.

“It rightfully and truthfully belongs on the property of faith-based organizations,” said Peter Carlson, pastor of the Berkley Community Church.

Well call me old fashioned or a Bible thumper or whatever....but there is nothing about anything that "belongs" on the property of a faith based organization except people.  And there is no material object in a church building that seperates it from anything else.  And the better part of me says that more things in my church, like the Bibles, need to be out in more public places so people can see the word.  But moreso...the people in my church and every other church building need to be seen and seen walking in accordance to the will of God...and heard speaking the Word of God so that all may know the truth.

“It’s not your job to promote our religion for us,” agreed Peter Moore, pastor of the Greenfield Presbyterian Church, adding that displaying a nativity scene alongside a figure of Santa Claus and Frosty the Snowman waters down its significance. “They are not ‘winter symbols’ of equal importance.”
 

Hmmm scary words to hear coming from a pastor....it is everyones job to "promote" Jesus.  We should be out promoting it ourselves and if we can get the 10 commandments in city hall then praise Jesus for it.   

I think the quotes by the two pastors scared me more than anything. 

[Soldier4Christ]

Hmmm scary words to hear coming from a pastor....it is everyones job to "promote" Jesus.  We should be out promoting it ourselves and if we can get the 10 commandments in city hall then praise Jesus for it.   

I think the quotes by the two pastors scared me more than anything.

There are a lot of "pastors" today saying things that scare me also.

[Mom4Jesus]

I think the quotes by the two pastors scared me more than anything. 

Yes, the clergy of Berkley do not represent me.  I am an evangelical christian very actively involved in this fight in Berkley.
In fact it is very, very sad that our local clergy are not willing to take a stand for Jesus.  They have no idea the heartache they have caused.  I even sent them a letter attempting to give them some background on constitutional issues and the ACLU and some of them still showed up at the city council meeting and gave a NO vote to making a stand for christianity in the public square.  It was so disheartening.  In fact, one of those pastors quoted is my former pastor.  I left the church in January due to the liberal direction the church was heading in.  So sad!

We are being assisted from a wonderful lawyer from the Thomas More Law Center.  I'm very hopefully that the city council will recognize that it can not be hostile to Christianity by caving to the ACLU.  We have the law and GOD on our side, so whom shall prosper but US???

For anyone reading this, we need prayer, tons of prayer!  Please pray faithfully until our city council votes on 11.20.06.

I could update then if anyone is interested.

By the way, the headline of that article was deceptive.  It implies that we christians acted inappropriately, when no one at the meeting was inappropriate...on either side.  Everyone conducted themselves in a civilized manner.

Thanks for reading and praying!  If you want more info on what's going on in Berkley you can email us at STATberkley@hotmail.com

[Soldier4Christ]

Hi Mom4Jesus,

Welcome to Christians Unite.

I'm glad that you came here and posted this information. As with most news articles the truth is usually somewhere in between, such as you mentioned the title of this article. The media just can't seem to help themselves and usually over exagerate a situation.

I hope that you will keep us updated on this and will join us in other threads for some wonderful Christian fellowship.

Yes my prayers have been and will be with all that are working in behalf of this fight.

[Pizza_Mahal]

Why is it that the ACLU calls themselves American Civil Liberties Union? They should call themselves athiests civil liberties union, seeing as they want to deny Christ in everything possible. 

I wonder would they be willing to represent American Christians, who want to have Christ in all aspects of their life? 

I doubt it 

Huh? I thought ACLU mean athiests civil liberties union.
Anyway ACLU main goal is Communism and also thier main foe is us, followers of Christ, or any name in Christ. I hear it from somewhere before(sorry i forget but I be back to post when I remember ).

[Mom4Jesus]

City Council Votes Tonight!

People, please pray!  I will update the results of the council vote.

I know God is in control of this situation.  I pray that our position can change some hearts towards God.  Pray for wisdom for the citizens that will be making a stand (with public comments) for Jesus!

Pray for healing in our community! 

Your covering is so much appreciated today!

God Bless,
Christine

[Soldier4Christ]

Yes I will be praying on this.