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Our Lord Jesus Christ loves you.
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Author Topic: Christian Jews and the law?  (Read 7255 times)
Barbara
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« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2008, 04:18:16 PM »

 I understand what you're saying completely, Brother Jerry! The first time I met anybody that made that claim I asked a lot of questions. I was shocked! It made no sense to me. But I guess that's how God is opening doors for them, people challenge them and ask questions. They know their Scripture and prove from Old and New Testaments that Jesus is the Promised Messiah and rejoice with us in this revelation. They'll explain in the beginning the Jews (disciples) of Jesus were called 'The Way', which was another sect of Judaism just as Pharisees and Saducees. So it was a natural extension - they believed their long awaited Messiah was God manifested in the flesh as Jesus Christ - the others did not. I find it very interesting. But you are of coarse entitled to your opinion. I know the Jews in Israel are telling them they're not Jews.

I'm also in the same boat as you, I've been going for 27 years to Pentecostal churchs in the north, Baptist and Messianic churches in the south - and I was born a Catholic. We're new here in Florida and looking around, so I guess I can only say I follow Christ and can't get enough teaching. My husband, son and I go wherever we hear truth and witness of Jesus Christ.

We're from NY so it's so common there now to see 'Jews for Jesus' and Messianic synagogues, there is no confusion because they're now part of the 'landscape', I guess cause there and here there's such a large Jewish population. They are everywhere, with their numbers and enthusiasm increasing. It is incredible. But I do completely understand your point about confusion and even contradiction to what we all have learned. I know in NY God is using it - He is amazing! I don't disagree with you, just am truly interested in this phenomena and the courage they exhibit.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2008, 04:32:57 PM by Barbara » Logged
Brother Jerry
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« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2008, 04:48:10 PM »

Agreed

And Barbara if I have not done it before welcome to the forums.  I am already enjoying the conversations.

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Brother Jerry

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I am like most fathers.  I, like most, want more for my children than I have.

I am unlike most fathers.  What I would like my children to have more of is crowns to lay at Jesus feet.
Barbara
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« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2008, 05:01:40 PM »

Thank you, Brother Jerry, you're very gracious! I must say I'm also enjoying the conversations, and the love of Christ exhibited on these forums!!!!
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nChrist
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« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2008, 06:21:53 PM »

Brothers and Sisters,

Mankind has confused things pretty terribly with all kinds of labels, tags, denominations, and you name it. Someone might have 10 PLUS tags attached to them that represent what religious beliefs they have.

For GOD, things are REAL SIMPLE. GOD has made Promises to THREE kinds of people:

1 - Israel - GOD has made promises that are unique only to Israel. As an example, CHRIST will restore Israel after HIS SECOND COMING, and the earthly KINGDOM GOD Promised will be a REALITY. CHRIST HIMSELF is the KING - the Anointed KING of Israel - will rule and reign over the earth for 1,000 years from the Throne of David in Jerusalem.

2 - THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST - ALL and I do mean ALL that are Members of THIS ONE and ONLY TRUE CHURCH not made with human hands are SAVED. Throw all of man's tags, labels, and denominations out the window because they mean absolutely NOTHING. ALL people, regardless of tag or label, who have placed their Faith in JESUS CHRIST and have CHRIST as the LORD over their lives are Translated into THE CHURCH WHICH IS THE BODY OF CHRIST at the moment of Salvation. CHRIST HIMSELF is the HEAD of this CHURCH that is NOT of this WORLD. Color, race, ethnicity, nationality, etc., etc., etc., mean absolutely nothing. Those who BELONG TO CHRIST are MEMBERS of HIS BODY, and this is the ONLY qualification for MEMBERSHIP. ALL others are rejected because they have rejected JESUS CHRIST as LORD and SAVIOUR.

3 - The lost. Those who have disobeyed, defied, and rejected CHRIST will be reserved for final judgment and Eternal Punishment.
__________________________________

There are so many tags and labels now that many people, including Christians, have no idea if a tag or a label means that a person is Saved. The only way to find out is to ask specifically what they believe about GOD THE FATHER, GOD THE SON (JESUS CHRIST), GOD THE HOLY SPIRIT, and ESPECIALLY THE CROSS! Many completely false and corrupt religions borrow or use some of man's labels and tags - and many of them blaspheme GOD with their beliefs and practices. There are new tags and labels popping up almost hourly now, and it's nearly impossible to keep up with all of them. Regardless, there won't be any of man's tags and labels in HEAVEN!

In terms of Biblical History, we live in a unique and special time that wasn't known to the Old Testament Prophets. In fact, it was a Secret not made known to men of other ages. There are quite a few different names some people call this period of time, but I'll just mention a limited number:  1 - The Age of Grace, 2 - The Dispensation of Grace, 3 - THE CHURCH AGE (Meaning CHRIST'S CHURCH - HIS BODY). This Age of Grace and CHRIST'S CHURCH are only possible because of the CROSS! We are not under the Law of Moses, rather we are under the Gospel of the Grace of GOD. For Christians, the Law of Faith in JESUS CHRIST has set us free from the curse of sin and death. The Law of Moses NEVER SAVED a SINGLE person because no man has ever been able to keep all of the Law. GOD made manifest in the flesh as JESUS CHRIST is the only one who ever walked this earth in Holiness and Spotless Perfection. The Law was a schoolmaster bringing man to the knowledge of sin and the need for GOD, and all men are sinners.

So, let me see if I can confuse this discussion just a little bit more, but maybe it will help. There are two kinds of Jews:

1 - A Jew who has rejected CHRIST and is a Jew!

2 - A Jew who has accepted CHRIST and is now a CHRISTIAN!


Did this help or further confuse things?

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ezekiel 39:25-29 NASB
Therefore thus says the Lord GOD, "Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and have mercy on the whole house of Israel; and I will be jealous for My holy name. "They will forget their disgrace and all their treachery which they perpetrated against Me, when they live securely on their own land with no one to make them afraid. "When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them from the lands of their enemies, then I shall be sanctified through them in the sight of the many nations. "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God because I made them go into exile among the nations, and then gathered them again to their own land; and I will leave none of them there any longer. "I will not hide My face from them any longer, for I will have poured out My Spirit on the house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD.
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Barbara
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« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2008, 08:24:26 PM »

This is an interesting study blackeyedpeas,

How are you?

You're right - the law of Moses never has saved a single person, but I don't believe it was ever meant as a means of salvation. Hebrews 11:6, in the faith chapter says:

"But without faith it is impossible to please him; for he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
(7) By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not see as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark...

(8)By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed...

(11) Through faith also Sara herself received to conceive seed...

(13) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off (in the future), and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth...."

So, I think, that even then, during the OT, Paul is telling us that they were saved by grace through faith in the promise of the coming Messiah and the work of salvation He would accomplish.

"And so, because he (David) was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne, he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that He was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh suffer decay." (Acts 2:30-31)

I believe they were saved by God's grace through their faith in the future coming of the Messiah and His work of salvation, it was never by works, lest any man should boast. And we are saved by looking back at the work of Jesus, the Messiah and having faith in Him.
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nChrist
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« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2008, 09:41:08 PM »

Amen Sister Barbara,

FAITH in GOD is one thing that can "be accounted as righteousness" for mankind. This still gives all of the Glory to GOD and NONE to man, and this is the Way of GOD. This also tells us how thankful we should be to be seen in and through JESUS CHRIST - NOT on our own merits or anything we deserve. We deserve NOTHING but punishment. The difference after the CROSS is that GOD can now be satisfied with the Perfect Sacrifice. GOD THE FATHER looks at us through JESUS CHRIST, and this is another reason to give thanks. In fact, there are a list of wonderful blessings and riches that were extended to us because of the CROSS!

Love In Christ,
Tom

Thanks be unto God for His unspeakable GIFT, Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour Forever!
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Brother Jerry
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« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2008, 02:03:10 PM »

Absolutely Barbara,

What I see Paul explaining in that chapter of Hebrews is that it is by faith that Moses followed the Law.  Prior to Christ the justification was having faith in God, and they were sanctified by allowing their faith to guide them into following the law.  Noah did not have the law but by his faith and willingness to follow the directions of God, he was sanctified.

The Jews had gotten to the point where they reversed the two.  They thought they were justified by following the laws, and sanctified by their faith.  They believed that unless you would follow the laws to the letter you would not receive justification to receive God's blessings.  And they believed that if you were following the laws to the letter then you would continue being sanctified by your faith in following the laws.  They removed God out of the equation and placed Him as an end result.
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Sincerely
Brother Jerry

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I am like most fathers.  I, like most, want more for my children than I have.

I am unlike most fathers.  What I would like my children to have more of is crowns to lay at Jesus feet.
nChrist
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« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2008, 03:58:31 PM »

Amen Brother Jerry!

Hebrews is an incredibly beautiful book that makes many contrasts between the Law and Grace. It confuses many, but the priceless treasure in Hebrews is "What changed at the CROSS."

Love In Christ,
Tom

 
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