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Author Topic: Pornography- The silent killer of the Body of Christ  (Read 24342 times)
Brother Paul
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« on: October 07, 2006, 05:02:00 PM »

Has anyone other than myself ever suffered the spiritual decline brought on by pornography? If so lets unite here to discuss and overcome this major obstacle in a brotherly way. I realize most posters have a reputation to uphold here as with any discussion forum, but at the end of the day I wish to maintain the reputation as an honest man. I will tell you I am a Minister who has obtained deliverance from all addictions and still struggle with pornography for unlike other substances God has delivered me from (drugs etc) pornography consists of a God given desire to be attracted to the opposite sex.This is a major problem in America where 1/3 of all Pastors suffer from pornography addiction in one form or another.So who will be honest and engage this discussion in a realistic manner. Hopefully some will to edify the Body of Christ and exhort the Brethren.

God Bless, Paul
« Last Edit: October 07, 2006, 05:41:22 PM by Brother Paul » Logged
nChrist
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2006, 07:18:58 PM »

Hello Brother Paul,

WELCOME!


I sincerely hope that you enjoy Christians Unite.

Brother Paul, I'm not a minister and I don't have a problem with pornography. I don't know how graphic you want to get with this subject, but we do have children here as young as 8. So, we don't get graphic at all with sexually oriented matters.

I would view this like many other tools of the devil to destroy (i.e. alcohol, drugs, gambling, etc.). Frankly, I would doubt that 1/3 of all pastors are addicted or associated with pornography, so I would be interested in your source of information. I'm not hinting that pastors are more than human and perfect by any means, but I've never heard huge statistics like this, nor would I know how any organization could collect statistics like this.

So, I will make this a matter of prayer.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 124:8 NASB  Our help is in the name of the LORD, Who made heaven and earth.
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Brother Paul
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2006, 07:48:20 PM »

Blackeyedpeas

    I understand your position and appreciate it, but I did not post here to stir up strife but to simply discuss an issue that is huge in the Body of Christ. I have studied this matter in grave detail and have found surveys that indicate that 1/3 of Pastors do indulge in some form of pornography. Here is a link that exposes this massive problem in some figures. I think we would both agree that 1 Pastor is to many. As for children on this forum I would hope that parents would monitor on line useage in children especially sites  titled " For men only" I know I would. But my intent was not to get graphic but meerly to discuss this issue.

God Bless, Paul

(Commercial Web Link Removed)
« Last Edit: October 07, 2006, 09:21:06 PM by blackeyedpeas » Logged
nChrist
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2006, 09:30:23 PM »

Brother or Sister Paul,

The commercial web link was removed. Advertising and soliciting is not permitted on the forum.

The article mentioned 20%, not 33% - AND, there was no method given for their opinion. As far as I know, this would simply be a guess out of thin air. There probably is some sort of problem associating some pastors with pornography, but I doubt very seriously there has been any scientific method used to obtain anything more than a guess.

One would be too many as you said, so this will be a matter of prayer. There is also a well-known scandal that isn't a guess at all regarding the molestation of children by practicing priests. Many have been prosecuted in courts of law, and many more cases are beyond the statute of limitations. This was almost institutional in nature and does not involve any guessing. So, the need for prayer in this area is overwhelming. This does not hint that all Christians should be painted with the same, broad brush.

Love in Christ,
Tom

John 10:8-10 NASB  "All who came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. "I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. "The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I came that they may have life, and have it abundantly.
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Brother Paul
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« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2006, 09:45:48 PM »

BEP

    I have encountered persons of your mind set  before and I assure you that I do not wish to argue numbers with you. Whats the difference between 20% and 33.3%? As I said one is to many. I wish to discuss not debate. If anyone wishes to discuss this issue please respond. I dint mean any disrespect or illfeelings, I simply wish to discuss this matter in a Christian manner.
God Bless,Paul
« Last Edit: October 07, 2006, 10:13:13 PM by Brother Paul » Logged
nChrist
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« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2006, 10:26:36 PM »

BEP

    I have encountered persons of your mind set  before and I assure you that I do not wish to argue numbers with you. Whats the difference between 20% and 33.3%? As I said one is to many. I wish to discuss not debate. If anyone wishes to discuss this issue please respond.
God Bless,Paul

Brother or Sister Paul,

Just what is my mindset?

First, there's a big difference between the stated 20% which is a guess and the 33% that you posted. Neither would be accurate - at the best a guess - and probably would be grossly higher than the truth.

I don't know what there would be to discuss. Even for one, this would be evil and something to confront. A person who has yielded to this type of evil has no business standing in the pulpit. There's really nothing complex about this situation. Again, this does not hint that pastors are or can be perfect and without sin. BUT, it would suggest that anyone serving as a pastor should be able to resist something this major. If not, they don't belong in the ministry. Rehab and counseling was tried for many of the priests involved in the biggest sex scandal in history, and it didn't work. What does work is removing them from that position and prosecuting them to the fullest for any violation of the law. Do you wish to offer a different solution?

Love In Christ,
Tom

Ephesians 1:18-23 NASB  I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe. These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
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« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2006, 10:52:33 PM »

Amen Brother Tom I agree completely. There are 2,313,662 Ministers just for the Prsebyterian denomination. (I couldn't find figures for any others at the moment so I am just using that as a comparison figure.) That does not include all the Christian denominations. At 20% that is 462,732. At 33% that is 763,508. That is a significant difference indeed. Such blown up figures does nothing but make an attempt at making Christian ministers look bad.

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« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2006, 12:21:06 AM »

Brother Roger,

In reflection, it might sound like I was trying to paint all or a great percentage of priests with the same brush, and that would be wrong also, so I apologize.

I would also like to mention some absolute facts that I want to state now:

1 - All Christians were in desperate need of JESUS CHRIST to rescue us from the curse of sin and death. We were all forgiven of horrible sins that were worthy of nothing but death and punishment. If not for the Blood of our precious JESUS CHRIST on the CROSS, we would be lost - undone - condemned - and damned to an eternity of punishment in hell.

2 - NO Christian can say that they are perfect or holy, and all Christians sin. We still have a desperate need to pray and beg our Lord and Saviour to forgive us. We all need to pray every day that GOD helps us to avoid the things of this world and gives us strength to stand AGAINST the things of the devil. We all need help and strength from GOD every day. This is the will of GOD for our lives, so HE will answer our prayers for help and strength if we mean it.

Brother Paul,

Sin is sin, and I should not have made any distinction of any one sin being more major than another. All Christians have a need for confession and forgiveness every day if we wish to walk in the SPIRIT and have sweet fellowship with our LORD and SAVIOUR.

This is a perfect example of the power of prayer and why all Christians need to be in prayer many times every day. We also need to be in prayer for each other, our pastors, our leaders, and the entire BODY OF CHRIST. GOD gave us prayer and fellowship for many of our ills. GOD gave us the HOLY SPIRIT who lives in our hearts for comfort and guidance. Our real power and strength is in CHRIST - not ourselves. Not one of us has any righteousness, except as filthy rags. All Righteousness that any Christian has is ONLY in CHRIST.

Brother Paul, we can do all things in CHRIST!


Love In Christ,
Tom

Hebrews 11:6 NASB  And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.

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Brother Paul
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« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2006, 08:48:39 AM »

BEP

So to clarify your position is that a man or women who submits to temptation shouldn't minister. I feel that is way out of line and so does the Word of God. I don't know what your credentials are other than forum mediator that would qualify you for such a statement. How would Peter have preached on the day of Pentecost if he had felt that way. He would have never steeped into the Pulpit and preached again after he lied and denied Christ or David would have never gone on to greatness after Bathsheba.You ever heard that anyone who preaches the Gospel should live the Gospel and that very same Gospel proclaims that if we confess our sins He is faithful to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness and that all have sinned and came short of the Glory of God and that our Righteousness is as filthy rags to God. So mistakes don't by any means disqualify us, and might I also add that one must be careful on here for if you direct people wrong in your posts you will give an account of it one day. I named this post the silent killer for a reason because no one wants to talk about it, so lets keep it quiet and sweep it under the rug and it will go away. When millions are addicted to pornography and need the Body of Christ to rise up and overcome this huge giant. And the Bible also teaches to confess your faults one to another and for the strong to go and restore a weaker one. I was hoping for some testimonies from overcomers and steps to freedom and some encouragement from the Breather, instead I get resistance. Thats anything but " Love in Christ" my friend. With that I rebuke you brother and advise that you study up on human relations and the Word and come out of your I'm always right attitude. I encountered this on secular forums but never thought I would find it in a "Christ-ian" (to be Christ like) forum. Ask your self would Christ have took your attitude, if not you may wish to take his. Wishing you well and praying fervently for you. I do not wish to partake in such a forum so I will bid you fare well. And if you will use any search engine and type in "Pastors addicted to pornography" you will find that 33 percent is very accurate. Wink
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« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2006, 10:47:52 AM »

Yes Peter did sin against Jesus. He also repented and did not deny Him after that. Those that are still struggling and participating in a sin such as pornography are the ones that need to step down from behind the pulpit. There are many such that are actively participating in sins that are still there trying to preach. It is not good for Christ and is not good for any of us.

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« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2006, 12:44:00 PM »

Brother Paul,

It appears that you are trying to justify the viewing of pornography by a pastor before and after standing in the pulpit - over and over again. You can't do that with the Bible, and you should know that you can't if you know anything about the Bible. I would be your elder by twice or three times over, but I shouldn't have to tell a pastor which portions of the Bible apply to this problem. I easily could, but why don't you ask the deacons and elders of the church you pastor?

I reject your rebuke and would say the same things that have already been said in this thread. If you can't or won't stop the pornography while you are trying to stand in the pulpit and lead a congregation, you need to find another line of work. This is a simple Biblical truth, and it's not a hateful or self-righteous statement. If you need help in finding the numerous portions of Scripture that apply, I would repeat you should ask the deacons and elders of the church you pastor? Trying to assign percentages to pastors who mix the pulpit with pornography won't work and has nothing to do with the Holy Bible.

I will pray that GOD helps you stop the pornography addiction, but I won't lie to you in an attempt to make you feel better about what you're doing. I see that you have made yourself a guest, but I know that you will be back to read this. Quit trying to justify your continued behavior because it can't be done. Becoming angry with someone who tells you the truth isn't very wise either. If you actually think that you can be a pastor and a pornography addict at the same time, tell this to your congregation. In the meantime, we will be praying for you.


Love in Christ,
Tom

1 Corinthians 5
1 Timothy 3
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« Reply #11 on: October 08, 2006, 01:26:56 PM »

Amen brother. There are many people that are taking on the idea that they can remain steeped in their sins once they become a Christian. So called Christians that are homosexuals, porn addicts, and support such other sins are the results. To repent of your sins does not just mean to ask for forgiveness but it also means to leave such things behind you, with the aid of our Lord and Saviour.

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« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2006, 12:12:47 PM »

I stumbled upon this message board while trying desperately to find information about sexual addiction and pornography addiction for my beloved husband. I came across the title for this thread and thought " Finally!". Upon reading I saw no hint of "brotherly" love or support. This man came reaching out to other brothers and instead is treated like such an outcast and told he doesn't belong in the ministry. Maybe it is time you "Godly men" came down off your pedestool's and embraced this brother. Not one of us is perfect!

This attitude is why brothers who are suffering do so in silence. These couples are suffering silently because of fear of being treated like this. If these people cannot turn to their brothers and sisters in Christ, who can they turn to?? This addiction is like any other (alcohol, food, smoking, etc). It needs understanding and love. Do you think these men like living how they live?? No, they don't. It's a very humiliating thing for them. It's also very hard on their families. These people try to change and overcome their addictions. In order to do it succesfully, they need support. You don't just say I'll pray.

My husband was a lay speaker who preached and was going to begin seminary. He had been trying to overcome his addiction for 4 1/2 years. When everything finally hit the fan this past april, he realized that he would lose everything if he didn't get the help he needs. When I first learned of his addiction in dec 01, I tried to get him help but never dreamed the chaplain (an officer above him) would try to get him in trouble. We tried dealing with it together and it worked until we weren't trying so hard and he got back into it. It's a constant thing in our marriage now. We have since withdrawn from the church because there is no support and once people learn, it's like you have the plague. It hurts me immensely. Do you think my husband enjoys the hurt that I have had to deal with?? Do you think he likes the way people see him? Do I like how people treat him? No, no, and no.

As a wife, I'm going to ask that people stop treating these people like they are deviants who aren't worthy of anything. People in ministry are just that, people. They are no better than Joe Schmoe down the street.
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« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2006, 12:35:15 PM »

Hi wifetoj77,

Welcome to Christians Unite.

While I agree with some of your statements I disagree with most. A pastor does need to be above reproach, blameless. If he cannot stand as such then I stand on the statement that he does not need to be behind the pulpit. This is Biblical. As for the help he needs it needs to come from someone that can work one on one with him and not over the internet. The most we could do for him here is to pray for him.

I also disagree with your statement that he did not receive any support from us. Yes we are all imperfect but this line of thought that it is ok to continue in the ministry while battling this problem is what has brought paedophilia's and homosexuals to be behind the pulpit. A pastor is to be the role model for the congregation. He cannot do that in truth when he is himself battling such a problem.

I certainly would not want an alchoholic preaching from behind the pulpit while drunk or someone to stand there preaching about the hazards of smoking while lighting up a cigarette. As you said yourself it is an addiction that is just the same as these.

Yes it does need understanding and love. Sometimes that love comes in ways that the person does not like and refuses to accept. This is the truth of the matter.

I am sorry to hear that your church is not supportive in this matter. I suggest that you find one that is. There are many coming out now that have a program called "Reformers Anonymous". It is a wonderful program for people of all sorts of sin in their lives. The program is handled with love and a whole lot of support.

1Ti 3:1  This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
1Ti 3:2  A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
1Ti 3:3  Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
1Ti 3:4  One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
1Ti 3:5  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
1Ti 3:6  Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
1Ti 3:7  Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
1Ti 3:8  Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
1Ti 3:9  Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
1Ti 3:10  And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
1Ti 3:11  Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
1Ti 3:12  Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.


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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2006, 02:01:19 AM »

Tom,
 
Although I might have worded things a little different I agree with most everything that you have written thus far.  From reading the posts it looked like Roger wanted others to not judge him, but was unwilling to show them the same grace.

It is not my aim in responding to this post to disparage him, so I will stop at this point.  I pray that God touches his heart and gives him the humbleness to receive Godly counsel.  That being stated, I am not sure how effective my prayers at this point in my life. 

The real reason that I am writing is because I would ask for prayer concerning my own life.  Pornography/sexual lust, pride and anger are three things that Satan, the world and my flesh have used to lure me from God.  I know that all three of these sins are related, but am really not sure which comes first, or is the predominant one in my life.  I would like to get rid of them.  I can't find a way out of this cycle that I am in.

Another thing that bothers me (besides that fact that I have a bad testimony) about this is that if my problem with pornography would come out it would hurt the ministry of a close family member.  Even though I am not in a leadership position I attend the same church as this person.  Also my computer is hooked up through their webservice, so even if I overcome my problem with pornography today if at some point in the future some viewed their internet history it would give them a misrepresentation of who was viewing the offensive material.

I am looking for Biblical advice and godly wisdom in two areas:  First, what can I do to get rid of this sin.  I know the Bible.  Regardless, I am either missapplying scripture, or missing something.  Second, what do I do about the possibility that a church leader could be blamed for my past sins.  I have considered quietly talking with some of the church leaders about my situation. 

Again I would ask that those who read this post would pray for my deliverance and the boldness to share my testimony and warn others once I am delivered.

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