A friend's decisions...

[LittlePilgrim]

Alright, the story is too long for me to really explain here, so as best I can, I'll summarize.

I think I've told everyone here about my friend, a girl by the name of Holli, and how I've been praying for almost the past year or two that God would use circumstances and people in her life to draw her to him...

Holli is eighteen now, like me, and has been through things in the past year or two that I will not state here out of courtesy to her, but that have left her VERY emotionally damaged. VERY damaged, and I fear these events have also impared her judgement.

It was about a year ago that she met a man (about her age) named Kevin and the two began a relationship together (Bearing in mind that this was THREE DAYS after a break-up with the boyfriend to whom she lost her virginity. X.X). Although I did not know much about him (Kevin) at first (though I'll admit I was somewhat jealous in the beginning as I had feelings for her that were unreciprocated), as I began to learn more about him and his character, I found an increasing dislike of him. In time, he has managed to manipulate (and yes, I mean manipulate, even though she would say otherwise) her into taking such extreme measures as breaking off most all contact with her friends (myself, and at least one other she considered a sister) and fostering hostility toward her parents, her mother in particular. She later rescinded her decision to break off ALL contact with us (Thank God, quite literally), instead merely communicating with us through message board posts (which still caused her to drift away somewhat).

The other changes I've noted in Holli since meeting Kevin are not for the better by any means, as one of the primary problems, I think is that her life seems to revolve around him and nothing else. In the past, she has threatened to leave her home and move in with him simply out of spite for her mother, though this has always been rescinded later. I had known they planned to move in together for awhile, and while I still felt this to be downright dangerous (and immoral, but as she is not a Christian, she will not listen to me when I state this as a reason for not doing so), I took some small solace in the fact that she now had her family behind her... Now, this third time she has talked about this... Well... I'll just post the message here. These are her words.

My boyfriend and I have been together for almost a year now, I know not long to be considering moving in together, but my mother and I have been coming to too many disagreements lately over things that I should be able to do or decide myself (I am 18.). I know there'll be some,"You're still awfully young." and some,"Think this through, don't make mistakes." but for months I've been thinking about it, and so has he. Truthfully, we're both sick of my mother holding me back, and she does. It's not a matter of that she's my mom and she wants to protect me, it's that she wants her babysitter/dishwasher to stay around forever. Proof: she's told me to my face. Many times she's said to me,"I need my babysitter." or, "I need my dishwasher." That's all I am to her, her free babysitter and dishwasher. Of course all she does is nitpick at the laundry, yell at my sisters, and sleep. That's all she really does besides the obvious shopping.
My boyfriend's parents said they don't care if I move in with them and my mom said,"You're welcome to move out whenever you want, but you're on your own so think long and hard about it." I've told her before that we were thinking of getting a place together lately and she said,"Well let's get your hopechest started, then." in a supporting tone. Well, I have to choose between the one I love and my family. Hard decision and my bf and I have talked it over. Okay, only a year together, but sometimes you just know. My aunt and uncle knew eachother for a week before getting married and they're still together and happy. I had to make a choice, and I choose him and we're in this together. If we do this we know there's no way out, but that's how sure of our relationship we are. We've gone through quite a few nearly disastrous fights, but we worked them out, so I think we can do this. I'm not imagining a fairytale, either, I know it'll be tough starting out but he's got a good job with outstanding insurances and great pay and he's going to go to college for Engineering when he saves up enough money. I don't yet have a job but I'm cracking down now and will more if we do this. I signed up at an employment agency yesterday and have 3 newspaper ad cut outs in my pocket right now plus a few other apps. out. We had to make a decision, and we chose eachother, otherwise I probably would end up living with my mom my whole life and being her free dishwasher and babysitter. He's looking through the ads for houses/apartments for rent right now and he says we'll know by tomorrow night if we're getting one or not. If it's a go, I don't know when I'll be able to come back. I have a computer, but don't know when we'll get internet.

Brothers and sisters, it takes allot to get me truly concerned, especially in situations like this that are now so common... But now not only is she making an immoral decision, she is attaching the very danger to it I'd hoped she would avoid and burning bridges behind her, cutting herself off from her family and (at least temporarily)her friends... Because of what has happened to her in the past, I am DEEPLY, DEEPLY concerned for her wellbeing... Afraid that if things go badly as I know they will (This is not mere speculation. This is from experience in knowing her, knowing her boyfriend's nature, and knowing how the world works), she will fall and not have anyone to help her up... She will be destroyed.

Dear friends, my brothers and sisters, I wish I could be there to take the bullet for her. I wish I could be there to snap her out of this. I wish she would even listen to me, but I know now it is out of my hands...

Please, pray fervorently for her. Pray that God would watch over her and use whatever happens to draw her to Himself. I feel more desperate for prayer now than ever in the past, and I am deeply thankful that God is always listening. But the words fail me now just as they did last time... So pray for me too, for my sanity and strength to deal with whatever this time brings.

I thank all of you... (And any advice or insight you can offer would be DEEPLY appreciated right about now. I'm at my wits' end)

[airIam2worship]

Little Pilgrim, I will definitely pray for you and for your friend. God works in very mysterious ways little Brother. God is not sitting in Heaven worrying, He is waiting, waiting for our prayers. He has a purpose for everything. Little Pilgrim I am telling you this because many times a lot of things are out of our hands, there is nothing we can do to change anyone or their thoughts, the only thing we can do is pray and continue to be her friend as best as her boyfriend allows it. She is making a very foolish decision and for all the wrong reasons. She is blaming her mom, and as the saying goes there are two sides to every story. I say it differently, there are 3 sides to every story example your side, my side and the truth. She doesn't sound a whole lot different than many teenagers that are raised without the fear of the Lord.
Continue to pray for her, I too will pray for her and for you.

[Shammu]

LP you can count on my prayers for you, and your friend.

[Soldier4Christ]

I join in the prayers of the others for you and your friend and include prayers for her Mother that the Lord will lead her in the right way to lead her daughter.

[LittlePilgrim]

Thanks for all your prayers everyone, and I have a bit up an update. It's not much, but it's something. I've been in contact with Robin (wayfarer), and she advised me to have Holli contact her, as she's been through much of the same situation herself... More than once. After some argument, I believe I've succeeded in convincing Holli to at least contact her to see what she has to say.

Pray that God will use Robin's lips and her heart to help lead Holli in the right direction.

We're still deep in the mud. I trust God. I know He will work this out for His glory and for all our good in the end, but I am not ashamed to admit I cannot see how. My sight is far too limited, so pray for continued endurence and sanity on my part.

(And does anyone have any Scriptures that could help me in this? Encouragement? ))

[nChrist]

Hello LittlePilgrim,

First, I will definitely pray for you and your friend.

Second, I am an old square and I make no apologies for being an old square. With that in mind, here is what I would say:

1 - Fornication is a sin, and it many times involves heartbreak and other horrible consequences.

2 - This many times simply involves the use of a girl and has nothing whatsoever to do with love.

3 - Bluntly, the girl is most of the time used and tossed aside, and she learns in a very rude way that lust does not equal love.

4 - If she is a Christian, she should already feel guilt and know that she has sinned against God.

5 - They've already had tremendous arguments, and she hasn't been able to put two and two together. After she is tossed aside, she will feel cheap, used, and stupid. If she doesn't, she will continue in this lifestyle and be victimized again.

6 - If the young man really loves her, he should be willing to make a serious commitment, deal with her family, propose, become engaged, and honor her with a wedding. At this point, he is treating her with disrespect by even suggesting that they move in together or have relations outside the bonds of marriage. This young man has already done things that indicate HE DOES NOT LOVE OR RESPECT HER. If he did, he would have treated her differently.

OK, I told you that I'm an old square, and I just proved it, but I don't apologize for it.  I could give you all kinds of Scripture that proves fornication is wrong and a sin, but any Christian would already know this. In my old fashioned opinion, Christian behavior does equal respect. This young man has already treated her with the ultimate disrespect and there isn't any information to indicate that he plans to change his behavior. At this point, it appears that more sin is all they have together, and they haven't even given a thought to a Christian future together. Nothing good will come of this, and heartbreak will be the least of the possible consequences.

This is what I would tell her if I talked to her about this situation. I would also talk about real love and respect. I would tell her to demand real love and respect, and she might laugh at me. In fact, many young people would laugh at me and I wouldn't care. I know that my thoughts are Biblical, and I wouldn't have a single thought of compromise.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Philippians 1:21-22 NASB  For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.  But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose.

[LittlePilgrim]

Bep,
Heh... No need to appologize. I'm a bit old-fasioned myself in that regard, and I make not appologies for it.

However, I'm not sure whether you misread, so I just want to be sure. Holli is NOT a Christian (though Kevin is SUPPOSEDLY). In fact, it was only a few months ago that she went from being completely atheistic to agnostic (partially because of God's use of my prayers).

I have spoken to her many times of the potential consequences of her actions. She says that she knows of them but is willing to risk them. She is, sadly, blinded.

That is why I am hoping that Robin will be able to reach her as someone who once was in that exact situation...

Anyway, I thank you for your input.

[nChrist]

LittlePilgrim,

I prayed about whether to respond to this or not, and I felt led to state the blunt truth. I will continue to pray for everyone involved. I did miss the fact that the woman is unsaved, and that would change many things. That would put more responsibility on the man who claims to be a Christian. I'm sorry that I misunderstood.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Romans 8:31-32 NASB  What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us?  He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things?

[Shammu]

Acts 11:23 When he arrived and saw what grace (favor) God was bestowing upon them, he was full of joy; and he continuously exhorted (warned, urged, and encouraged) them all to cleave unto and remain faithful to and devoted to the Lord with [resolute and steady] purpose of heart.

Acts 13:15-16 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the leaders [of the worship] of the synagogue sent to them saying, Brethren, if you have any word of exhortation or consolation or encouragement for the people, say it. 16 So Paul arose, and motioning with his hand said, Men of Israel and you who reverence and fear God, listen!

Romans 1:12-13 For I am yearning to see you, that I may impart and share with you some spiritual gift to strengthen and establish you; 12 That is, that we may be mutually strengthened and encouraged and comforted by each other's faith, both yours and mine.

[LittlePilgrim]

Bep,
Brother, I thank you for not being afraid to share blunt truth. I appreciate it greatly (In fact, I actually hate it when people sugar-coat things. XD And people hate the fact that I don't. I just state fact as I see it. :p)

Dreamweaver,
Thankyou for the Scriptures brother. To read what God has to say is always an encouragement in times like this.

Update:
Alright. I have a bit of an update again, though not so much in regard to Holli or her situation as to myself.

The more I learn of God, the more I am convinced He has a sense of humor (And I think perhaps that is why we are given one as well, just one more way we are made in His image).

I walked into the church this morning with my heart heavily burdened by this. In fact, so spiritually and emotionally exhausted was I by this struggle that it was hard for me to get up this morning. (There were other issues too, but they did not weigh as heavily on me.) I have felt a burden for Holli as long as I have known her, and it is my belief that such can only come from God, as all I have ever truly wished for her was that she would know Him.

Yet this morning, as the service began, the first words out of the pastor's mouth were: "I know that we all come this morning with burdens upon our hearts, but we come this morning to cast all our cares upon God..." And so he led us into prayer.

Today, our last Sunday at this church, also happened to be the date of a concert by the Christian group: Calling Levi. The words of the songs they chose were unbelievably uplifting, and one in particular reminded me of something that had always known, and yet I think much as I believed it, I needed to be encouraged by a reminder of it. I post the words to that song here rather than the music section because I believe that in my case they relate to this specific topic...

You Were There
by Ben Glover

I wonder how it must have felt
When David stood to face Goliath on a hill
I imagine that he shook with all his might
Until You took his hand and held on tight
'Cause You were there, You were there
In the midst of danger's snare
You were there, You were there always
You were there when the hardest fight
Seemed so far out of reach
Oh You were there, You were always there
You were always there

So there he stood upon that hill
Abraham with knife in hand was poised to kill
But God in all His sovreignty had bigger plans
And just in time You brought a lamb
'Cause You were there, You were there
In the midst of the unclear
You were there, You were there always
You were there when obedience
Seemed not to make sense
You were there, You were always there
You were always there

So haven't I learned that my ways
Aren't as high as Yours are
And You alone keep the universe
From crumbling into dust.
You are God and though we would
Not have understood You
There you were hanging blameless on a cross
You would rather die than leave us in the dark
Every moment, every planned coincidence
Just all makes sense with Your last breath
You were there, You were there
During history's darkest hour
You were there, You were there always
You were the Victor and the King
You were the power in David's sling
You were the calm of Abraham
You are the God who understands
You are the strength when we have none
You are the living, Holy One
You were, You are and You wil always be
The Risen Lamb of God

=========================

Amen to those words. I always knew, always believed that God was and is there, even when I cannot be, and though she does not believe, I know that He is with Holli, guiding her life just as He guides mine (And I believe this to be truth for all uneblelievers, as one cannot even come to God without His drawing)... I think perhaps I just needed to hear it from someone else. Like everyone else, I needed to be reminded, and so my spirits lift again, my soul refreshed... And for that at least, I know I can praise God!

[Orion]

In my prayers you shall again be.

You know I will be there for you and for Holli, and if I can be there for you, then God most certianly shall be.

Put your trust in him, and your prayers he shall answer.

[Brother Jerry]

Prayers and more prayers out for all involved.  Including Kevin the professed Christian.

She is young and is exhibiting a now typical teenager mentality.  I have seen it many times in and been there myself (Yes even I was a teen once...I bet even PR was at one time   ).  But she has started down an extreme path that warrants earnest and sincere prayers.

The post you showed us is full of hopes and dreams even though she tries to hide it with apparent understanding.  Not knowing what the future will bring she mentions he will go to school for engineering.  All the while she is going to work and put him through school.  His parents offered a place to stay but they want to do it on their own.  Before long a child will come into the picture and instead of a blessing it will be perceived a curse to them.  Some may think this sort of thing happens only in the movies.  But it is happening all across America.  And day by day there are girls thinking they can change the man or that it will not be them.  And those chances are small.

And Christian or not, no man or woman should make the person the profess to love choose between anyone they care about.  Satan is working over time there in burning up the seeds that have been planted in her heart. 

LP you continue to stand firm.  Pray ferverently.  And most importantly always be there for her.  As far as your feelings for her, you need to leave those with God as well.  Do not let your personal feelings get in the way of being a witness to her.  What she will need is someone to be there as a constant reminder of the love she had in her family and friends and they will always be there to welcome her back when she is ready for it.  Unfortunately right now the odds are that she is set in her path and she will not allow anything to deter her from that.  But she will be back.

Sincerely
Brother Jerry

[LittlePilgrim]

There's allot more I couldn't put here, Jerry. I guess she feels her mother is far too controlling, too angry, always yelling, etc.

The thing is, I know all you're saying is true. I learned that the first time she made threats like this. I'm not sure if I mentioned it above or not, so I'll say it here. The changes I have seen in her since she started dating Kevin have NOT been positive by a long shot.

I know Satan is working overtime, yet I can't help but remember that where Satan is at work, God is at work even moreso. I have prayed for two years God would use people and circumstances in her life to draw her to Him, and sometimes I can't help but wonder if this is an answer to my prayers and I just do not like it... I don't know.

I also understand what you are saying about my feelings... However, note the past tense of the phrase I used. I have since moved on and begun a relationship with a mutual friend named Mallory (Look in the answered prayer section. ). I still love Holli dearly as a friend, almost a sister, but I have become far more blunt with her in this situation, and I think laying aside what I once felt for her has allowed me to do do that.

Thankyou for everything, Brother Jerry, and keep in touch.

[Soldier4Christ]

Yes even I was a teen once...I bet even PR was at one time

That's a fact. Seems just like yesterday .............  (NOT).