Babbling on like pagans

[Heidi]

I have a question about prayer. Jesus says that when you pray, do not pray on the street corners where you can be seen by men. Instead go into your room and pray to your Father in secret, for there will be your reward.(I apologize that I'm paraphrasing but do not have access to a bible at the moment). He also says do not babble on like the pagans do for your father already know what you need before you ask it. So why do so many Christians keep on praying the same thing? Isn't that a lack of faith? He already heard us and knows what He's going to do about it.

[Knox]

He also says do not babble on like the pagans do for your father already know what you need before you ask it. So why do so many Christians keep on praying the same thing?

I'm pretty sure that you are referring to Matt 6:7. According to the footnote in my Bible, the pagans of the time used to address their gods by a series of titles, in the superstitious belief that their prayer wouldn't be heard unless the right title was hit on. That is what Jesus is referring to as 'vain repetition', not the repeating of prayers.

PS You don't need to have a Bible on hand. There are loads of Bibles available on-line. Here is a link to a KJV I prefer to use, but there are many other versions available, maybe some people wouldn't mind posting some links.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/kjv/

[Whitehorse]

Well, the context of the verse is that Jesus was admonishing people not to carry out their acts of devotion with the motive of trying to get attention from others, making a big show to get praise from men, etc. Jesus follows up this admonition by showing how unnecessary it is to go on with long, showy prayers. (After all, God can hear us!) And that's what distinguishes this verse from this one:

And shall not God avenge His own elect, which cry day and night to Him, though He bear long with them? Luke 18:7

This one is context of the parable of the unjust judge, where Jesus is showing his disciples to have faith, even if God takes long, and apparently, to continue to pray. In fact this persistence is honored by God. Paul himself also prayed three times for the removal of his thorn, and Jesus prayed thrice in the garden before entering His suffering.

I hope that helps.
Blessings to you.

[Heidi]

Whitehorse, i agree with you that Jesus's meaning is to not show how "spritually mature" we are by praying for the praises of men. But don't you think that when people pray in groups there is always some of that? I believe that is why He wants us to turn to our Father in private. I really do think that the reason we keep praying to God is to show Him how much we want something. I get annoyed in some churches when they go on and on in prayer. I really believe this shows a lack of faith.    

[Symphony]

Maybe it's the circumstances that will help distinguish our babbling from genuine prayer.

Acts 12 begins with James being put to the sword, by Herod.  Later on in that same chapter, we have  "...where many were gathered together and were praying." (v. 12b), and just then Peter shows up, released miracuously from prison.  

Maybe our "group prayers" will become genuine as any personal or private prayer, as we become tested in our faith...

In those circumstances I think we will all welcome and hunger and thirst for the fellowship of the brethren...

   

[Heidi]

Symphony, that's a good point. For me, I know that whenever I keep praying something, it's usually something that I feel God's answer will be "no". It's usually because I want it too much instead of asking for His will. That's why the more I can "let go" of my own desires, the easier it is for me to accept His will.

[Whitehorse]

Whitehorse, i agree with you that Jesus's meaning is to not show how "spritually mature" we are by praying for the praises of men. But don't you think that when people pray in groups there is always some of that? I believe that is why He wants us to turn to our Father in private. I really do think that the reason we keep praying to God is to show Him how much we want something. I get annoyed in some churches when they go on and on in prayer. I really believe this shows a lack of faith.    

Heidi, I see what you are saying, and I agree that sin seeps into everything. The Bible says our righteous deeds are as filthy rags and that no one is righteous. I guess I'd offer this: the motive of the individual is the individual's responsibility. But I wouldn't stop having corporate (group) prayer because some have a problem with personal pride. Jesus said that where two or more arre gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them, and anything they agree upon in His name, they will receive. So it's clear that the Bible instructs us to agree in prayer. That is righteous. But the sins of the individuals are theirs to work on. In any group, you will have some trying to make a show. You will have others steeped in envy at the gifts and talents of others. Then there are those who only show up at prayer meeting because they use prayer as a means of gossip. Then there are those who ask for prayer but do not pray for others, those who make requests to get attention of their own...it goes on and on and on. Wherever you have human beings, you will have sin. The thing to stop isn't the worship in this way, but the sin.

You've asked a really great question. Thanks for that.

Blessings to you.

[Heidi]

I agree that it is up to each individual to know his own motives when he prays. Personally, I prefer short and to- the point- prayers. But I do believe that we should keep Jesus's words in mind about prayer.

[Royo]

I am sorry to disagree with you Knox, but "vain repetitions" means just what it sounds like it means. We are not to repeat the same prayer over and over, in hopes He will hear.
I do not refer to praying for a particular thing more than once, that is fine. I refer to saying a certain prayer over and over. Like when I was young, and catholic: we were told to say the "our Father" a certain amount of times, and we would be forgiven. To God, that prayer is in vain. We are repeating a certain prayer over and over, hoping He will hear.
Prayer is, above all else, a dialogue with our Father God. A TWO WAY CONVERSATION. If I were having a conversation with you, you would soon get bored with me saying the same thing over and over, especially if I never took the time to listen to what you had to say. But that is how many Christians pray; they throw words at God, but rarely ever take the time to listen to what He has to say to us.
We read the Word to know ABOUT God: we pray to KNOW God. He showed me years ago that the 2 most important things in a Christians life are prayer and the Word.
God speaks to me often, but it is because He taught me that I needed to take time to listen to what He has to say. It has been the greatest lesson I ever learned. From trying to kill myself 25 years ago, to having conversations with God. WOW!
I am nobody, and yet the God of the universe takes time to talk with me. Simply amazing. That is prayer.
"Be still, and know that I am God." [Ps 46.10].
The 2 greatest joys in my life are watching God work, and talking with Him.
Your brother in Christ. Roy.

[joyunending]

I agree,,,, when you are in church and you hear prayer, some 'sound' sooooo good and some are downright beautiful!!
    Some people are afraid to pray in public because they fear that they will sound foolish, or stupid....
    God hears 'all prayer' that comes from the heart.  He knows our hearts , and that is where prayer sould originate....   Saying beautiful words, will not get anything... saying heartfelt words, that is the secret prayer, no matter where it is said, that is what God hears and answers, even if the answer is no!!!!
             JOY

[Royo]

Amen Joy. Well said.
God bless you. Roy

[Knox]

I am sorry to disagree with you Knox, but "vain repetitions" means just what it sounds like it means. We are not to repeat the same prayer over and over, in hopes He will hear.

Well actually you're not disagreeing with me, but the scholar who added that footnote!

I tend to think that my source is correct, however. I use the Knox translation which is unrelated to the KJV. My Bible has 'many phrases', instead of 'vain repetitions.

The Pagans of the day were not known for having set prayers, so I doubt that they were thought to be in the habit of repeating the same prayers over and over.

[Royo]

Hi Knox.
Since I have not done any study of pagan praying of 2000 years ago, and did not live then, I will have to take your word about weather they prayed prayers in repetition or not.
Though I still believe "vain repetitions" refers to saying the same thing over and over, I will cede that you could also be right. Or, that it is possible that both meanings apply.
Yours in Christ. Roy.

[Tamara]

I agree,,,, when you are in church and you hear prayer, some 'sound' sooooo good and some are downright beautiful!!
    Some people are afraid to pray in public because they fear that they will sound foolish, or stupid....
    God hears 'all prayer' that comes from the heart.  He knows our hearts , and that is where prayer sould originate....   Saying beautiful words, will not get anything... saying heartfelt words, that is the secret prayer, no matter where it is said, that is what God hears and answers, even if the answer is no!!!!
             JOY

[Tamara]

  AMEN!! Beautifully said!