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Author Topic: Papal Address Confirming Evolution  (Read 17851 times)
Knox
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« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2003, 12:48:07 PM »

Sorry but I find it a little odd that someone who is apparently obsessive enough to disrupt their daily life by taking the time necessary to make over 200 posts in one week can speak to someone about skewed priorities.
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sunodino
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« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2003, 01:10:35 PM »

You don't need another Pope you need another faith- IN CHRIST ALONE!

Roman Catholism is the most heretical enemy of the truth in THIS WORLD today.  They certainly DO WORSHIP MARY AND CONSIDER HER A MEDIATOR FOR US!  They also teach Mary did not have other children as the Bible clearly tells us she did, and they also teach she was born sinless, which is a lie.  She was also in the upper room at Pentecost among the 120 praying souls.  Don't think she was mediating there.

Roman Catholism, supported the holocaust [sp?], and anti-semitism. Still does today.

The POPE is a false prophet, and nothing he says should be considered truth for living as a christian. AVOID HIM!

I KNOW, I WAS CATHOLIC BEFORE FAITH IN CHRIST ALONE JUSTIFIED Me AND TOOK MY SINS AWAY!  

Catholism, is a FEAR GENERATING RELIGION, if you read their own documents and encyclopedia, states that you MUST have enough works to help you when you die, so that you can get out of PERGATORY! A FIRERY PLACE YOU STAY FOR SOME UNKNOWN PERIOD OF TIME UNTIL THERE ARE ENOUGH PRAYERS AND INDULGENCES (indulgences are moneys given to priests for masses to pray your loved one out) SUFFICIENT TO GET YOU OUT OF THERE AND ON YOUR WAY TO HEAVEN.

THEY BELIEVE, IF YOU DON'T BELONG TO THE "MOTHER CHURCH" YOU WILL NEVER GET OUT OF PURGATORY.
They teach salvation comes from joining their church only and by works.
BUT THE BIBLE TEACHES FAITH IN JESUS, WITH REPENTANCE  WILL JUSTIFY A SINNER.
Jesus said, " He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mk 16:16 and Paul  wrote "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

This is the basis for Martin Luthers thesis, "the just shall live by faith"

They also have a false doctrine called TRANSUBSTANTIATION, which means EVERY TIME YOU TAKE COMMUNION, CHRIST DIES AND THE HOST TURNS INTO THE ACTUAL REAL BODY OF CHRIST AND THE BLOOD OF CHRIST.


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Sunodino travails...
For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15
Heidi
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« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2003, 01:16:01 PM »

AMEN, Sunodino!!

Tibby, I consider wtinessing and spreading God's word my top priority in life. What are yours? Sitting in church and hoping that saves you? Or maybe, you spend the week doing things for yourself. What we do what we value. I'll pray for you.
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Heidi
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« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2003, 01:25:37 PM »

Tibby,
If you want to be saved, I urge you to look UP to God, not the pope or any church for answers. It is only He who can give you what you need. Then you will form a personal relationship with Him.
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Corpus
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« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2003, 01:52:56 PM »

sunodino,

Let's establish from the outset:

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I KNOW, I WAS CATHOLIC BEFORE FAITH IN CHRIST ALONE JUSTIFIED Me AND TOOK MY SINS AWAY!

Now the following:

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They certainly DO WORSHIP MARY AND CONSIDER HER A MEDIATOR FOR US!

Either you truly weren't Catholic or had a confused understanding of it. This simply isn't true.

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Roman Catholism, supported the holocaust [sp?], and anti-semitism. Still does today.

Care to validate that claim?

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The POPE is a false prophet, and nothing he says should be considered truth for living as a christian. AVOID HIM!

Catholics don't claim the pope to be a prophet(Huh). Your statement is full of vim and vigor, which makes for fine theatrics, but lacking a tad in substance.

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Catholism, is a FEAR GENERATING RELIGION

Huh?
Not based on the experience of myself or the countless other Catholics I know. Frankly we all feel and experience our faith generating a great deal more faith and love than fear.

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THEY BELIEVE, IF YOU DON'T BELONG TO THE "MOTHER CHURCH" YOU WILL NEVER GET OUT OF PURGATORY.

BUZZ!!!!
wrong again

Now that's one unsubstantated historical claim and three false claims about doctrine. If you're going to post, at least get Catholic beliefs correct (or ask) before leaping in.

Ciao for now!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2003, 01:55:59 PM by Corpus » Logged
Heidi
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« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2003, 02:04:44 PM »

Sorry, Corpus, but you are in error. The pope did indeed support the Nazi regime during WWII.

The beliefs of the Catholic church are also indeed based on what the pope declares is sin, even if it disagrees with God's notion on sin.

If the catholics don't worship Mary, then why do people have to say several "Hail Mary's" after they confess their sins? She can't do anything about them.

Most catholics i know believe we are saved by works and will go to hell if they commit sins. They all said they got that from the catholic teaching.
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Corpus
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« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2003, 02:23:05 PM »

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Sorry, Corpus, but you are in error. The pope did indeed support the Nazi regime during WWII.

Let's try this again. Rather than making claims that SOUND conclusive, please explain your position of belief and substantiate it. Use a historical record, a book you read, something! But let's cut with the...'it's simply true' comments when dealing with matters of historical record or doctrine.

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The beliefs of the Catholic church are also indeed based on what the pope declares is sin, even if it disagrees with God's notion on sin

Ditto to my last reply.

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If the catholics don't worship Mary, then why do people have to say several "Hail Mary's" after they confess their sins? She can't do anything about them.

It's petitioning for intercessory prayer. We've all done it at one point or another. It's just usually from family and friends.

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Most catholics i know believe we are saved by works and will go to hell if they commit sins. They all said they got that from the catholic teaching.

Most Catholics I know believe they are saved by faith and works. They understand that one without the other makes the one dead. Now I'll go out on a limb and guess I know more Catholics than yourself, making my assessment of how Catholics in general understand their faith probably more accurate. Would you agree?
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Heidi
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« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2003, 02:36:52 PM »

First of all, I am watching a documentary on the History channel RIGHT NOW about the pope's alignment with Hitler during the Nazi regime. It is talking about how people lost faith in Christianity because of it.

The pope (depending on which human being the pope is) has changed his mind on divorce over the past 50 years. The pope has also gone back and forth on the abortion issue.

I have also been to catholic churches several times in my life. I have not heard one sermon on having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I get the feeling from the sermons I have heard and the people i've talked to, that the catholic church believes that one must muster up faith rather than receive the Holy Spirit. I have also heard at the catholic church that baptism saves. There are just too many rituals in the catholic church that lead me to believe they are focusing on rituals more than the Holy Spirit.

As for faith and works, faith comes as a result of the Holy Spirit. If one has the Holy Spirit, then he will produce works because the Holy Spirit rules him. It isn't a decision, it's a response. Works don't come first. The holy Spirit does.
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Corpus
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« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2003, 03:39:58 PM »

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First of all, I am watching a documentary on the History channel RIGHT NOW about the pope's alignment with Hitler during the Nazi regime. It is talking about how people lost faith in Christianity because of it.

Great! Now tell me who's work they're referencing. What Vatican or Nazi documents are they pulling. Not trying to be a dink here, but it's kind of hard to reply to general accusations without knowing who's saying what, and what documents, speeches, references they're going to.

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The pope (depending on which human being the pope is) has changed his mind on divorce over the past 50 years. The pope has also gone back and forth on the abortion issue.

Again, to avoid misunderstanding, according to whom, what, when or where? I could just as easily say...Zwingli was gay. But I suspect you wouldn't let me simply get away with the comment without substantiating it.

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I have also been to catholic churches several times in my life. I have not heard one sermon on having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. I get the feeling from the sermons I have heard and the people i've talked to, that the catholic church believes that one must muster up faith rather than receive the Holy Spirit.

Would that really affect your opinion about Catholicism...hearing a sermon about a personal relationship with Jesus? It seems a rather fine point for a church of 1 billion+. Trust me, it's been done and continues to be done, though probably not with the words you've chosen.

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It isn't a decision, it's a response.

So 'responding' involves no 'decision' whatsoever?

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Works don't come first. The holy Spirit does.

I never suggested otherwise.
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Mr. 5020
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« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2003, 05:04:08 PM »

And they say spam can't start good threads!   Grin
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« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2003, 05:48:51 PM »

The only TRUE church, Tibby, is Jesus Christ. One can worship Him anywhere. Your belief that the catholic church is the one true church shows me that you worship things in the world rather than Jesus. Churches are simply buildings where people can go and worship Christ together. They are not infallible. Your defensiveness of the catholic church indicates that your priorities are skewed.

Now, Heidi, where did I ever say the Catholic Church was the one true church? Let me give you a little of my history with Jason, so maybe you will understand, and not make such post. Jason is fairly new to the Christian faith, he has lived lost life, and recently found Christ. He has been in this one Church all his Christian Life. This Church told him that Catholics are all Pagans, condemned to Hell. I was not defending the Catholic church, I was defending myself and my experiences. Are you always this quick to assume the worst.


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Tibby, I consider wtinessing and spreading God's word my top priority in life. What are yours? Sitting in church and hoping that saves you? Or maybe, you spend the week doing things for yourself. What we do what we value. I'll pray for you.

Why are you telling me? KNOX was the one who posted the post questioning you priorities (thanks, by the way, knox).


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Tibby,
If you want to be saved, I urge you to look UP to God, not the pope or any church for answers. It is only He who can give you what you need. Then you will form a personal relationship with Him.

Ya think? I though  we settled this! The Pope/Patriarch doesnít save anyone, You know this, I know this, Corpus knows this, the Pope knows this. We know, Heidi, we know. You donít think we know, but we know.


Corpus- Good job with sunodino and Heidi. Wish I would have gotten to the last few posts first. You said it well, my friend.

5020- When I got home and saw we had just about filled up a whole page from this morning, I though the same thing, lol. Sad how people will take even the smallest opportunity to attack their Brothers and sisters in Christ, isn't it.
 
« Last Edit: September 08, 2003, 05:50:01 PM by Tibby » Logged

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Heidi
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« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2003, 06:08:33 PM »

Tibby, you said the you researched and found that the catholic church was the true church (whatever that means.) Since I don't know you well, I didn't know what you meant by that. I elaborated on it. What do you mean by the catholic church is the tru church?

The catholic church before the Reformation sold penitences and forgiveness. Their doctrine has changed little since then. They have still rejected Luther's doctrine that we are saved by faith alone. The idea that we have to come to priests for confession and that human beings are worshipped as saints makes it hard for people to understand the message of a personal relationship with Christ. I simply have known more Catholics who have admitted that their doctrine kept them from pursuing a personal relationship with Christ than any other denomination's doctrine. There's a reason for this and I'm wondering what it is.

As for the pope allying himself with the Nazi's, if you want to research this, Corpus, then I'm sure you can contact the History channel. I doubt the Catholic church will be a reliable source for the truth about the situation. But you can try them too.

Tibby, I apologize for misreading the name on the post about my time on this website.  As far as being attacked, I feel your whole post was an attack. Especially the part about the good job other people did with me and Sunodino.
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Mr. 5020
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« Reply #42 on: September 08, 2003, 06:09:25 PM »

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Corpus:  Great! Now tell me who's work they're referencing. What Vatican or Nazi documents are they pulling. Not trying to be a dink here, but it's kind of hard to reply to general accusations without knowing who's saying what, and what documents, speeches, references they're going to.

Your lack of knowlege about the Vatican's involvement in the holocaust is not our problem.  Instead of blatantly denying the truth, do a little bit of research.  I guess ignorance is bliss.

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Tibby:  Now, Heidi, where did I ever say the Catholic Church was the one true church?
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Tibby:  I researched and found the Catholic Church to be the true church. I found all that I was told of Catholics...

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Corpus:  Again, to avoid misunderstanding, according to whom, what, when or where? I could just as easily say...Zwingli was gay. But I suspect you wouldn't let me simply get away with the comment without substantiating it.

It's pretty easy Corpus.  If you said that, I would do research and prove that to be untrue.  Unfortunately, you're blissfully wallowing in your ignorance as if that makes it untrue.

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Tibby:  Ya think? I though  we settled this! The Pope/Patriarch doesnít save anyone, You know this, I know this, Corpus knows this, the Pope knows this. We know, Heidi, we know. You donít think we know, but we know.

Before Vatican II, the catholic "church" claimed that it was necessary to be subject to the pope for salvation.  My question is:  Was the catholic "church" a heathen church back then, and due to the recantation, is now the "true church"?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2003, 06:19:01 PM by Mr. 5020 » Logged

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Knox
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« Reply #43 on: September 08, 2003, 06:46:23 PM »


The catholic church before the Reformation sold penitences and forgiveness. Their doctrine has changed little since then.

Hogwash. Nothing but a lie.

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They have still rejected Luther's doctrine that we are saved by faith alone.

So what? What makes Luther so special that he can formulate  'doctrine'.

 
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The idea that we have to come to priests for confession and that human beings are worshipped as saints makes it hard for people to understand the message of a personal relationship with Christ.

If you believe that Catholics worship Saints you are sorely mistaken. This is just common garden-variety Catholic-bashing.

 
Quote
I simply have known more Catholics who have admitted that their doctrine kept them from pursuing a personal relationship with Christ than any other denomination's doctrine. There's a reason for this and I'm wondering what it is.


Hmmm, let's see. Could it be that Roman Catholicism is the world's largest Christian denomination? There are One billion, 50 million Catholics. Any Catholic who believes thay can't have a personal relationship with Christ as a Catholic just isn't paying attention.

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Heidi
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« Reply #44 on: September 08, 2003, 06:55:14 PM »

Knox, you have no info to back up your assertion that the catholic doctrine hasn't changed much.

Since you don't understand the Holy Spirit, you haven't a clue what Luther is talking about, in which case, your no authority on what saves a person.

As far as billions of people being catholic, Christ said that few will enter the kingdom. Many will say they preached in His name and cast out demons in His name but the owner of the house will say He never knew them. If the majority of people believed in Christ, then Christ would have told a lie. But so far, your argument bears out even more that He's telling the truth.
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