Interpretation, please

[Willowbirch]

Is there anyone here with any special insight into 2Tim. 2:13? It found me four times in one day, and I would like to know why.

"If we are faithless, he keeps faith, for he cannot deny himself."

[Rookieupgrade1]

Study notes give reference to Rom 3:3-4 where it shows that just because we do not believe in him, he will still carry out His promice. (the sins of man will be punished weather we believe they will or not)

[airIam2worship]

Hi Willow, I don't know if this will help you, I reffered to a Bible commentary

Barnes


Verse 13.  If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful. This cannot mean that, if we live in sin, he will certainly save us, as if he had made any promise to the elect, or formed any purpose that he would save them, whatever might be their conduct; for
 
(1.) he had just said, that if we deny him he will deny us; and
 
(2.) there is no such promise in the Bible, and no such purpose has been formed. The promise is, that he that is a believer shall be saved, and there is no purpose to save any but such as lead holy lives. The meaning must be, that if we are unbelieving and unfaithful, Christ will remain true to his word, and we cannot hope to be saved. The object of the apostle evidently is, to excite Timothy to fidelity in the performance of duty, and to encourage him to bear trials, by the assurance that we cannot hope to escape if we are not faithful to the cause of the Saviour. This interpretation accords with the design which he had in view.
 
  He cannot deny himself. Implying that it would be a denial of his very nature to save those who are unfaithful. He is holy; and how can he save one who is unholy? His very nature is purity; and how can he save one who has no purity?  Let no one, then, suppose that, because he is elected, he is safe, if he lives in sin. The electing purpose of God, indeed, makes salvation sure; but it is only for those who lead righteous lives. Nothing would be more dishonourable for God than to resolve to save a man that lived habitually in sin; and if that were the doctrine of election, it would deserve all the opprobrium that has ever been heaped upon it.
 

[Willowbirch]

Thank you, Rookie and Maria!

[Willowbirch]

I also found this editorial comment, by Zodhiates, with a slightly different view:

"The word for 'faithless' in Greek is apisteo, which here means 'to fail to exercise proper faith, confidence, dependence, or trustworthiness'. When we do not exercise the proper faith in the Lord, He still remains faithful; He is trustworthy. His trustworthiness does not depends on our trustworthiness. There is a certain faithfulness which God demonstrates toward His children which is not conditional. If we are sinning, missing His mark for our lives, He still demonstrates fainthfulness to us in keeping us in His fold. He cannot cut out a part of His body, and that is what we actually are as believers. But He allows us to suffer in proportion to our unfaithfulness to Him."

[Willowbirch]

Also, is there a connection between Luke 9:23 (take up your cross daily and follow Me) and 2Tim. 2:13?

[Rookieupgrade1]

There may but, but I am inclined to think that the Lord was addressing the unfaithfull, not the faithfull, which is what I believe Christ is doing in Luke.

[Soldier4Christ]

The Lord is faithful in keeping His word irregardless of whether we believe it or not. The following verses are also cross references to this verse. Also read the prior verse, 2 Tim 2 : 12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

 It is clear here to say that no matter what we may want to believe and whether we are faithful or not He will remain faithful to His word.


Isa_25:1; Mat_24:35; Rom_3:3, Rom_9:6; 1Th_5:24; 2Th_3:3
Num_23:19; Tit_1:2; Heb_6:18

[2nd Timothy]

I also found this editorial comment, by Zodhiates, with a slightly different view:

"The word for 'faithless' in Greek is apisteo, which here means 'to fail to exercise proper faith, confidence, dependence, or trustworthiness'. When we do not exercise the proper faith in the Lord, He still remains faithful; He is trustworthy. His trustworthiness does not depends on our trustworthiness. There is a certain faithfulness which God demonstrates toward His children which is not conditional. If we are sinning, missing His mark for our lives, He still demonstrates fainthfulness to us in keeping us in His fold. He cannot cut out a part of His body, and that is what we actually are as believers. But He allows us to suffer in proportion to our unfaithfulness to Him."

I have wondered this same thing regarding this verse, myself being somewhat of a fence sitter on the OSAS issue.   

2Ti 2:11  It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him;
2Ti 2:12  If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us;
2Ti 2:13  If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

If we died with Him and made Him Lord over our lives, we are saved.  Can a person who has truly died with Christ, then deny Him?   Peter denied Christ 3 times, and was eventually restored.  Judas however, repented and returned the 30 pieces of silver, yet his grief lead him to destruction.  One truly believed, the other never really did.  Joh 6:70-71

I'm not positive, but I think Christ being faithful when we are not, could be related to carrying us who have truly died with Christ, through some faithless hour.


Gal 2:20  "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; [....]

Cannot deny Himself.    Of course, living by faith is mentioned here too in the final portion of this verse.....lol  So I'm not sure. 


I tend to agree with PR's explanation also about Christ being true to His word too though.    Its definitely a passage worthy of study.   I have pondered it many times, and still not sure the full depth of what is meant.

[airIam2worship]

God cannot deny Himself, meaning everything God says shall come to pass.

Notice, when God created the heavens and earth if you read the first chapter of Genesis, before each thing was created it reads "And God said".

God's Word is creative anything He says shall come to pass. That is why God cannot lie, everything God says shall come to pass.

Therefore, He cannot deny Himself.

[airIam2worship]

cannot deny Himself........this would make a good study on God's attribbutes, His character, and God's Names and meaning. It would be a lengthy study, but a very worthwhile one, it would help us tremendously to know God's Awesomness and His completeness.

[Willowbirch]

cannot deny Himself........this would make a good study on God's attribbutes, His character, and God's Names and meaning. It would be a lengthy study, but a very worthwhile one, it would help us tremendously to know God's Awesomness and His completeness.

Well, I think one point of this "good Name study" - regarding your previous post - is that He is the Word. John chapter one starts out with, "The Word was with God; and the Word was God". "And the Word was made flesh". The Unspoken, Speaking Word is Jesus. But He is not "The Word of Jesus"; He is the "Word of God", His father. He spoke only what was in His father's heart to speak.