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Question here.....again =)
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Topic: Question here.....again =) (Read 6014 times)
Amorus
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Re: Question here.....again =)
«
Reply #15 on:
July 19, 2006, 10:26:43 AM »
Yes, lets get back to business. I think what I would like to know is about what the Bible refers to as the third heaven 2 Corinthians 12:2, the first being the atmosphere Job 35: 10 - 11 and the second being the realm of the sun, moon, stars Genesis 1: 14 But I'm open to all study so lets refine a bit what we would like to look at. Thoughts?
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Last Edit: July 19, 2006, 10:39:48 AM by Amorus
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airIam2worship
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Re: Question here.....again =)
«
Reply #16 on:
July 19, 2006, 11:45:57 AM »
I believe I have some notes regarding that from a sermon my pastor delivered a while back, I have gone thru several notepads since then but I think I can find it. Unless I put it in storage when I moved, if not I'm sure I can perhaps ask someone at church or even pastor himself if that topic is available on CD or cassette.
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PS 91:2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in Him will I trust
airIam2worship
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Re: Question here.....again =)
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Reply #17 on:
July 19, 2006, 11:54:42 AM »
I went to the ATSD and this is the definition I got, maybe we could start with this.
HEAVEN
In the Bible, means primarily the region of the air and clouds, and of the planets and stars, but chiefly the world of holy bliss above the visible heavens. It is called "the third heaven," "the highest heaven," and "the heaven of heavens," expressions nearly synonymous. There holy beings are to dwell, seeing all of God that it is possible for creatures to see. Thither Christ ascended, to intercede for his people and prepare for them a place where all shall at length be gathered, to go no more out forever, Eph 4:10; Heb 8:1; 9:24-28. In this life we can know but little of the location and appearance of heaven, or of the employments and blessedness of its inhabitants. The Scriptures inform us that all sin, and every other evil, are forever excluded; no fruits of sin will be found there-no curse nor sorrow nor sighing, no tear, no death: the former things are passed away. They describe it figuratively, crowding together all the images which nature or art can supply to illustrate its happiness. It is a kingdom, an inheritance: there are rivers of pleasure, trees of life, glorious light, rapturous songs, robes, crowns, feasting, mirth, treasures, triumphs. They also give us positive representations: the righteous dwell in the presence of God; they appear with Christ in glory. Heaven is life, everlasting life: glory, an eternal weight of glory: salvation, repose, peace, fullness of joy, the joy of the Lord. There are different degrees in that glory, and never-ceasing advancement. It will be a social state, and its happiness, in some measure, will arise from mutual communion and converse, and the expressions and exercises mutual benevolence. It will include the perfect purity of every saint; delightful fellowship with those we have here loved in the Lord, Mt 8:11; 17:3,4; 1Th 2:19; 4:13-18; the presence of Christ, and the consciousness that all is perfect and everlasting. We are taught that the body will share this bliss as well as the soul: the consummation of our bliss is subsequent to the resurrection of the body; for it is redeemed as well as the soul, and shall, at the resurrection of the just, be fashioned like unto Christ's glorious body. By descending from heaven, and reascending thither, he proves to the doubting soul the reality of heaven; he opens it door for the guilty by his atoning sacrifice; and all who are admitted to it by his blood shall be made meet for it by his grace, and find their happiness for ever in his love. See KINGDOM OF HEAVEN.
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PS 91:2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in Him will I trust
airIam2worship
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Re: Question here.....again =)
«
Reply #18 on:
July 19, 2006, 11:59:04 AM »
2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
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PS 91:2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in Him will I trust
Amorus
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Re: Question here.....again =)
«
Reply #19 on:
July 19, 2006, 12:31:54 PM »
Thanks Sister,
One thing that jumped out at me was the resurrection of the body.
Quote from: airIam2worship on July 19, 2006, 11:54:42 AM
We are taught that the body will share this bliss as well as the soul: the consummation of our bliss is subsequent to the resurrection of the body; for it is redeemed as well as the soul, and shall, at the resurrection of the just, be fashioned like unto Christ's glorious body.
LUKE 24: 37 - 43 They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a ghost. He said to them, "Why are you troubled, and why do doubts rise in your minds? Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have."
When he had said this, he showed them his hands and feet. And while they still did not believe it because of joy and amazement, he asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" They gave him a piece of broiled fish, and he took it and ate it in their presence.
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airIam2worship
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Re: Question here.....again =)
«
Reply #20 on:
July 19, 2006, 12:32:12 PM »
Easton's Bible Dictionary
Heaven
(1.) Definitions. The phrase "heaven and earth" is used to indicate the whole universe (Ge 1:1; Jer 23:24; Ac 17:24). According to the Jewish notion there were three heavens,
(a) The firmament, as "fowls of the heaven" (Ge 2:19; 7:3,23; Ps 8:8, etc.), "the eagles of heaven" (La 4:19), etc.
(b) The starry heavens (De 17:3; Jer 8:2; Mt 24:29).
(c) "The heaven of heavens," or "the third heaven" (De 10:14; 1Ki 8:27; Ps 115:16; 148:4; 2Co 12:2).
(2.) Meaning of words in the original,
(a) The usual Hebrew word for "heavens" is shamayim, a plural form meaning "heights," "elevations" (Ge 1:1; 2:1).
(b) The Hebrew word marom is also used (Ps 68:18; 93:4; 102:19, etc.) as equivalent to shamayim, "high places," "heights."
(c) Heb galgal, literally a "wheel," is rendered "heaven" in Ps 77:18 (R.V., "whirlwind").
(d) Heb shahak, rendered "sky" (De 33:26; Job 37:18; Ps 18:11), plural "clouds" (Job 35:5; 36:28; Ps 68:34, marg. "heavens"), means probably the firmament.
(e) Heb rakia is closely connected with (d), and is rendered "firmamentum" in the Vulgate, whence our "firmament" (Ge 1:6; De 33:26, etc.), regarded as a solid expanse.
(3.) Metaphorical meaning of term. Isa 14:13,14; "doors of heaven" (Ps 78:23); heaven "shut" (1Ki 8:35); "opened" (Eze 1:1). (See 1Ch 21:16.)
(4.) Spiritual meaning. The place of the everlasting blessedness of the righteous; the abode of departed spirits.
(a) Christ calls it his "Father's house" (Joh 14:2).
(b) It is called "paradise" (Lu 23:43; 2Co 12:4; Re 2:7).
(c) "The heavenly Jerusalem" (Ga 4:1; 6:18; Heb 12:22; Re 3:12).
(d) The "kingdom of heaven" (Mt 25:1; Jas 2:5).
(e) The "eternal kingdom" (2Pe 1:11).
(f) The "eternal inheritance" (1Pe 1:4; Heb 9:15).
(g) The "better country" (Heb 11:14,16).
(h) The blessed are said to "sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob," and to be "in Abraham's bosom" (Lu 16:22; Mt 8:11); to "reign with Christ" (2Ti 2:12); and to enjoy "rest" (Heb 4:10,11).
In heaven the blessedness of the righteous consists in the possession of "life everlasting," "an eternal weight of glory" (2Co 4:17), an exemption from all sufferings for ever, a deliverance from all evils (2Co 5:1,2) and from the society of the wicked (2Ti 4:18), bliss without termination, the "fulness of joy" for ever (Lu 20:36; 2Co 4:16,18; 1Pe 1:4; 5:10; 1Jo 3:2). The believer's heaven is not only a state of everlasting blessedness, but also a "place", a place "prepared" for them (Joh 14:2).
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PS 91:2 I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in Him will I trust
Amorus
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Re: Question here.....again =)
«
Reply #21 on:
July 21, 2006, 10:15:55 AM »
A good place to start, maybe, with how our bodies will be changed! AMEN!
1 COR 15: 35 - 58 (It is also good to read all of Chapter 15)
The Resurrection Body
But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man,
so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?"The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
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Last Edit: July 21, 2006, 10:17:33 AM by Amorus
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2nd Timothy
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Re: Question here.....again =)
«
Reply #22 on:
July 22, 2006, 07:57:44 PM »
Great topic.
Here's one verse that always gets my mind working.
1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
referring to...
Isa 64:4 For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside thee, what he hath prepared for him that waiteth for him.
I don't know about you guys, but I can condure up some pretty increadible things about heaven in my heart, and I'm not even getting in the ballpark. woohoo!
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Tim
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linssue55
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Re: Question here.....again =)
«
Reply #23 on:
July 24, 2006, 10:06:52 AM »
Quote from: Amorus on July 18, 2006, 09:01:34 AM
Just wondering if anyone has done an in depth Bible Study on Heaven? If so, does anyone have any favorite verse (s)they can provide? Thanks so very much and God Bless you all.
The Doctrine of Heaven
In our continued study of Philippians 1:21 in which verse Paul as a mature believer claims that living is for Christ and dying is profit, we have now entered into a study of the Doctrine of Heaven. The believer's physical death is a profit in that his soul and human spirit are thereafter transferred to heaven. Though heaven is beyond the understanding of man's finite mind and imagination let us try to note, in our limited vocabulary, the splendor and glory of our eternal destination!
Throughout human history prophets have received glimpses of the glory of God in heavenly places. For example, Ezekiel's vision of Eze 1:26-28. Or the apostle Paul having actually visited heaven which is one of the reasons he dogmatically considered death to be a profit or promotion. God also took John to visit the New Jerusalem which is where we receive our major description of it in Revelation chapters 21 and 22. But regardless of the descriptions we receive, when our eyes finally fall upon our Lord Jesus Christ in His FULL GLORY, seated on His throne in the New Jerusalem in heaven, we will be fixed in awe and complete devotion. The best of all our experiences before this point will pale when faced with the glory of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ in all His splendor! Heaven exemplifies all that makes up God's essence and perfect grace. At that time we will see and know Him in full. Right now in time we can only know Him in part, 1Corinthians 13:12, but in heaven His fullness will be exposed before us! Such a time should be the believer's source of encouragement and anticipation.
Heaven, by way of definition, is the dwelling place of God and his angels variously conceived of as the place where the blessed will live after death. It is also a place of great beauty and pleasure. The dwelling place of God, i.e., His abode is in the third heaven. Distinction must be made since theologically there are three heavens. The first heaven is that which we see, the clouds of the air, our immediately encompassing atmosphere, Acts 14:17. The second heaven is known as the stellar universe i.e., the galaxy beyond earth's immediate atmosphere where angels engage in spiritual warfare, Eph 6:12. And the third heaven in its celestial magnificence is the abode of God, Hebrews 8:1, and is located beyond the stellar universe to the north according to the Psalms and the book of Isaiah. In the third heaven there is found the capital city of the eternal state, the New Jerusalem, Revelation chapters 21 and 22. The New Jerusalem is the present and future location of the throne of God and the seat of our Lord Jesus Christ. Upon our physical death, it is there our interim bodies will congregate in the presence of our Lord, in the midst of the beauty and grandeur of the New Jerusalem. It is also where our resurrected bodies will congregate after the Rapture and Judgment Seat of Christ. This is what Paul saw when he was taken to heaven which is why we find it no surprise that he was not incredibly ecstatic about coming back to earth. Of course, whatever the will of God had for his life he happily complied with but his sight was on heaven! It's strange that believers today claim to want to go to heaven but they do not want to die. If their faith were strong enough, they would know that what lies beyond physical death is of profit!
Let us go through the chain of events which occur when the believer is triumphantly released from his physical body. At the moment your physical body breaths it's last the (believer's) soul and human spirit exit the human body and enter the interim body noted in 2Corinthians 5:1-8 at which point the believer is met by angels who are sent to escort him on his breathtaking journey to heaven. Why is an angelic escort sent? Is it because God thinks we will get lost? No, it is because of the fact that fallen angels can prohibit space travel between heaven and earth according to the account noted in Daniel 10:12-13 in which the angel who was sent to aid Daniel was delayed 21 days by the fallen angels in the atmosphere. You must remember the angelic conflict drives fallen angels to try and botch up whatever they can within God's plan and realm. Another example of the foul play of fallen angels would be Satan's attempt to steal the physical body of Moses to mislead God's people. So Daniel 10:1-13 describes the type of battles that take place in the spirit world. Battles that if we could see would cause us to be so frightened we wouldn't leave our houses.
Now, when the Rapture of the church occurs, we are told that in a second of time we will be face to face with the Lord in the clouds of the air, 1Th 4:17; 1Co 15:52. But when we die physically and the angels come to escort us to our home in heaven, it is a glorious journey. We do not die and in a second are face to face with the Lord, there is no where in Scripture that indicates this second in time transfer at death. Our ascent is one of leisure and beauty. Heaven is billions and billions of light years away, what we experience during our ascension to the third heaven goes far beyond our best vacation!! We rise through the clouds free from any physical impediments we knew in our human bodies. We are free also from the laws of gravity and are lightly rising in a quiet, pleasant fashion. We are also faced with angels who are smiling and beautiful. We continue to rise above the clouds through the planets and stars that we use to gaze up at on earth and speculate about. What our astronauts were renown for we are casually passing by. We continue to sweep upward into the third heaven which is beyond the sun and stars and has a glorious illumination of its own. It appears so cheerful and enchanting due to the presence of the Shekinah Glory, the Lord Jesus Christ Himself. No sun is needed here in this heavenly city that we are approaching, the city called The New Jerusalem, which is the capital of heaven.
As we approach the holy city we are aghast at its overwhelming beauty. We are unable to speak having never before seen such radiant and majestic delight. The angels smile knowing that for us to behold this sight is completely exhilarating! They probably receive just as much pleasure watching our response. This city is a very real and unique city, it is not a mirage or some type of mystical projection. It is an enormous city who's architect and builder is God, Hebrews 11:10. It is a city in which the perfect will of God is done! Think of the most breathtaking place you have been or seen, well it cannot even compare to this perfect and holy city! It's mind blowing! Even if you could contact loved ones on earth to share with them your experience you wouldn't be able to describe it. When God took the apostle John to visit the New Jerusalem John found it very difficult to describe in language of human accommodation and so likened it as unto a bride who is arrayed in her most beautiful and extravagant attire.
Surrounding the enormous city the newly deceased believer who we shall hereforth call the newly alive believer, notes a commanding and stunning wall which is described in Revelation 21. This wall is 72 yards tall and 1,500 miles long on each side, forming a perfect cube around the holy city, which city is also 1,500 miles high! The foundation of this grand wall is made up of twelve foundation stones on which are written the names of the twelve apostles. Each foundational stone is 500 miles long with an apostles name engraved and gilded into it, our apostles being: Peter, Andrew, the 2 James', John, Philip, Bartholomew, Thomas, Matthew, Thaddaeus, Simon, and Paul. Is this to say that these men are monuments of greatness? No! It is rather a show of God's awesome grace. We are all mere men and in as such are objects of God's grace. All these men though they have all failed, have their names engraved into the immense foundational stones of the wall surrounding the eternal city, expounding on the fact of God's grace. In fact, the focus in this city is the grace and magnificence of God. It is a city where God's perfect will is done!
(cont)
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Last Edit: July 24, 2006, 10:08:34 AM by linssue55
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linssue55
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Re: Question here.....again =)
«
Reply #24 on:
July 24, 2006, 10:07:46 AM »
Now, attached onto each of these twelve foundational stones is an enormous precious stone. In fact, the same stones which were placed in the Ephod (i.e., the breastplate of the Jewish high priest), Exo 28:21, are also the stones which make up the wall surrounding the New Jerusalem. The stones are as follows:
1) Jasper, a translucent stone probably what we today know as a diamond.
2) Sapphire, a blue stone with a star seen within.
3) Chalcedony, a bluish white stone.
4) Emerald, a bright green stone.
5) Sardonyx, a white/orangish red stone.
6) Sardius, a blood red stone.
7) Chrysolite, a yellow/green stone.
Beryl, a bluish green stone.
9) Topaz, a yellow-gold stone.
10) Chrysoprase, a greenish stone.
11) Jacinth, a red/yellow stone.
12) Amethyst, a purple stone.
And within each one of these immense precious stones is found a gate like that of a huge pearl. Why a pearl, for the reason of serving as a constant reminder of the price Jesus Christ paid on our behalf. A pearl is formed from the suffering of it's host, the oyster. Above each pearl gate is a plaque with a name of one of the Tribes of Israel. So here's the picture... each side of the wall has three foundational stones each with an apostles name on it and on top of each foundational stone is attached a huge precious stone making up the wall. These stones are semi-transparent through which the radiance of the Shekinah Glory within shines out. Set in each brilliant stone is a gate, so there are three gates on each side and above each gate is a plaque with a name inscribed on it. The names inscribed above each gate make up the twelve tribes of Israel, again pointing to the grace of God. So on the East wall above the gates we have inscribed the Tribe names of Judah, Issachar, and Zebulun. On the south wall we have Reuben, Simeon, and Gad. On the west wall we have Ephraim, Manasseh, and Benjamin. And, on the north wall we have Dan, Asher, and Naphtali. And standing at each of the twelve gates is an angel, representing victory in the angelic conflict, they are also there to serve us. None of these angels "deserve" to be standing before the city of God, also another representation of the grace of God. Note, that these gates are not used to keep anyone out but to channel the incoming traffic. Nor do we have to answer any trick questions to enter the "pearly gates". But, because it is so overwhelming we might just feel inclined to stand at the gates starring at this splendid wall for all eternity. So, the angels make sure we find our awe-struck little selves around the holy city.
Next the angels take us to meet our Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ! We cascade through the golden, glassy streets of the city. We ascend to the high point of the city, called Mount Zion, on which is situated our Lord's throne. Yes, we will finally see the splendor and glory of the majesty on high, Isa 35:2! That which we have been eagerly anticipating all our lives, the Lord Jesus Christ - face to face in all His fullness! If we could we would faint but no longer being hindered by a human body we proceed forward accompanied by angels. When our eyes finally fall upon the One who saved us, redeemed us, reconciled us to God and offered us the occupancy of this glorious city we fall in worship, in gratitude, and complete humility at the feet of our precious love, so gracious and selfless. We melt in adoration before Him as He welcomes us to His home, the home He went to prepare for us. We gaze up at His wrenching brilliance, we find that His gaze is beyond description, far greater than the most dazzling and beautiful of sunsets that had ever moved our souls on earth. How we loved His word on earth and how it moved us then, but to meet Him face to face brings us near the feeling of explosion!
After meeting TLJC on His throne we are shown to our welcoming committee of loved ones who have gone before us! There is a joyous reunion as we catch up on the grand accounts of heaven. Our loved ones show us around the New Jerusalem, our new and eternal home. We see that the throne of God is at the peak of Mount Zion and that there are miles and miles of indescribably majestic terrain which stretch from the throne down to the 1,500 mile wide square base. We marvel at it's enormous size, a perfect cube of 1,500 miles wide by 1,500 miles long by 1,500 miles high. We are no longer bound to mere horizontal travel, but our interim bodies now include vertical travel and this grand city climbs 1,500 miles upward! Level after level of the most beautiful architecture we have ever seen! Oh that house on earth that we though was so pretty is poverty in light of God's perfectly designed and majestically built city. We also notice that there are twelve rivers flowing through the New Jerusalem from God's throne. These rivers are perfectly clear and one is able to see right down to their crystal bottoms! We are told that these waters offer supernatural power in liquid form.
On each side of these sparkling rivers are beautiful heavenly orchards with twelve kinds of fruit. The leaves of these trees are used for the healing of the nations, indicating that there will be nations in heaven, but no enmity between them. The old sin nature was left far, far behind in the dead physical body. Away with it went our selfish desires and the things of the earth as noted in Gal 5;19-21. In heaven we will not only have perfect fellowship with God but with each other. We will knit together through the perfect impersonal love of God. We will all reside in perfect righteousness with no old sin nature! We will always walk in the light, 1Jo 1:7. In heaven everything is done according to the perfect will of God. In heaven, all the misery caused by being self-centered will no longer exist. Hence we will love all as we love TLJC. It will be just as natural for us to be unselfish in heaven as it is natural for us to be selfish here on earth. We are all to some degree self oriented, we can't avoid it since we have an old sin nature. In heaven we will be NON POSSE PECARRE, that is not able to sin. Just as Jesus Christ incarnate was not able to sin in His deity yet able to sin (POSSE NON PECARRE) in His flesh. We will no longer be held captive by our flesh and so we will be unable to sin. We will reside in our new nature forever. Every day spent in our earthly body is another day we are not face to face with our Lord. But it is also another day we are afforded the opportunity to glorify God on earth by our decisions for His plan in the angelic conflict. Through the work of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ we have a new home waiting for us! A hearth warmer than any known on this earth, a brilliance grander than any splendor experienced in this life. This is why the apostle Paul states in Phi 1:21 that to die is profit!! He has seen the New Jerusalem as we too will someday see it. That should be our anticipation, that should be our energy.
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dan p
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Re: Question here.....again =)
«
Reply #25 on:
April 29, 2008, 07:35:08 PM »
Where did God dwell before He made the heavens. I see jude v6 as a pllace where angels were before God made angels, their first estate. So if paradise , the same as the third heaven, is created and there are 4 heavens ?What can you say ?
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