American Muslims angry at US stance on Mideast conflict

[Shammu]

American Muslims angry at US stance on Mideast conflict

by Laurence Thomann Mon Jul 17, 7:48 PM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - American Muslims chafe at the US government's hands-off approach to Israeli reprisals and worry about countless relatives and friends trapped by violence in Lebanon.
ADVERTISEMENT

US officials say
Israel "has the right to defend itself," since its incursion into Gaza three weeks ago and air raids on Lebanon, but
President George W. Bush's stance offends Americans who are Muslims or of Arab descent.

Early last week, a coalition of 11 major Muslim organizations publicly called on Bush to forcefully condemn the attacks on Gaza and to designate as "war crimes" the destruction of Palestinian civilian infrastructure.

After the Israeli bombing of Lebanon, the appeals for denouncing Israel have multiplied.

"Once again America's image and interests worldwide are being harmed by one-sided support for Israeli actions," said Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, the largest US Muslim rights group.

"We're urging Muslims in America and other people of conscience to contact their elected officials to tell them that we have to have balanced foreign policy for the Middle East, one that is driven by American interests, not Israeli interests."

American Islamic Congress director Zainab Al-Suwaij had an even more immediate goal, urging the US to actively lobby for an end to violence.

"The policy for the US should be stopping the violence, period, and starting to solve the problem through negotiations."

The American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee announced a rally outside the White House Tuesday to "protest Israeli military action in Lebanon and Gaza."

The committee, founded in 1980 by former US senator of Arab descent James Abourezk, calls itself the largest Arab civil rights group in the United States.

And on Wednesday, leaders of Arab-American communities around the United States plan to meet in Washington to discuss the crisis in the Mideast.

The plight of an estimated 25,000 US citizens in Lebanon, many of whom are dual nationals, has injected a sense of urgency to the gathering.

The Arab American Institute, which says it represents the policy and community interests of US Arab Americans, said 40 percent of the 3.5 million Arab-Americans are of Lebanese descent.

The institute has posted on its website photographs of Arab-American vacationers, children and visitors trapped in Lebanon by the fighting.

"In many cases (there is) no way for them to leave, even if a plan were to be developed, they can't go from one part of the country to the other to get out," said James Zogby, president of the Arab American Institute.

The United States has chartered a cruise ship for evacuations that can carry 750 passengers on each five-hour voyage between Lebanon and Cyprus, beginning Tuesday under protection of a US destroyer.

US helicopters flew 64 Americans from Beirut over the past two days, according to the military, without specifying whether they were embassy personnel, dual nationals or tourists.

Janah El Horr, a 24-year-old Lebanese who has been living in the US for three years, said she had been optimistic about Lebanon's prospects after the end of the country's devastating civil war in 1990.

"We were all happy with how (much) the country was able to achieve -- and in such a short time after the (civil) war and how the Lebanese people always thrive and have the will to overcome their civil war," said Horr, who recently returned from a a visit to her native country.

"It brings chills all over to see what this country is going through, so much destruction and pain and being threatened with a new war," she said.

American Muslims angry at US stance on Mideast conflict

[Shammu]

May I suggest they call

[nChrist]

May I suggest they call

Yes - Ghost Busters!

OR, anyone who will have sympathy for a bunch of terrorists who started a war with a series of unprovoked attacks. The only ones I know who might have sympathy for the terrorists is other terrorists. They got what they wanted and richly deserved.

[Shammu]

Well excuse me for a moment of weakness.....................

They do have the right of religion.

Don't you know islam is a religion of peace.................

Excuse me for a moment, brother...............



Now I feel better...........   But you already know, how I feel about islamic fools brother.

Edited to add; I have to do this a little bit brother (clown around). All the crud I've read off the islamic news sites, would make you sick.  Most of it isn't worth posting.

[nChrist]

       YES, we are probably in complete agreement about terrorists and a ton of other things. You know that I was simply trying to have a moment of levity in an upside-down, crazy world.

I have also been trying to keep up with the news around the world. The lunatics with fingers on the buttons of missile launchers want sympathy and understanding. AND, the comedy crew at the U.N. blames diplomacy or lack thereof. If diplomacy is the answer, it would have to be diplomacy designed to deal with rabid dogs. There's even a certain amount of irony here: one cuts the head off of a rabid dog and sends it off for testing. So, rabid dog diplomacy is in order.

Love In Christ,
Tom

[Shammu]

There's even a certain amount of irony here: one cuts the head off of a rabid dog and sends it off for testing. So, rabid dog diplomacy is in order.

Love In Christ,
Tom

AMEN brother AMEN!! Course you know how I feel Israel should deal with a rabid dog.

[nChrist]

          ROFL!

Charge!!

(Small Print: I still wish they would give us real horses.    )

[ibTina]

a big AMEN to all above me....

[2nd Timothy]

You know, I feel the same as you guys about this....It does really burn my bacon to see items such as this, but at the same time I have to admit, that I find myself feeling confused on how I am to respond as a Christian.   Don't get me wrong, I feel no sympathy for their cause or beliefs, and I know there is no way to compromise with these types.

I would like to hear from Pastor Roger on the following because I know he has done considerable study in this area.   In addition, I would like to hear how others are addressing this in their daily Christian walk.

I too have always believed that war is Just under the right circumstances.  Scripture shows a few times where Israel was to war with enemies.   Since we are commanded to love our enemies, how do we separate the two, or rightly divide the word on this issue as believers, as loving them, while at the same time defending our selves or nation from threats we all know so well in these days.  Know what I mean?   Someone posed this question to me, and I have to admit, I was unable to provide a sound biblical answer for my stance.      I know this has come before on the board, but thats been some time ago.



For those who are not familiar with me on the board, I'm not arguing either point here, just looking for sound Christian views and teachings on what I think is becoming an important topic for believers in our day and age.   I have a feeling this could be a great discussion if we can keep it from decending into a debate.



BTW mods, feel free to create a separate thread out of this if you think it better for discussion.


Blessings!

[Shammu]

Brother Tim Jesus would have us love the sinner, but hate the sin.  This includes those caught in a cult, such as islamics.

[2nd Timothy]

Brother Tim Jesus would have us love the sinner, but hate the sin.  This includes those caught in a cult, such as islamics.

I have always believed this too DW.   Still, I'm finding it difficult to separate this scripturally.   How do we love them and win a war at the same time?

[nChrist]

2nd Timothy,

Brother, I think that any Christian who has ever been put into a position where human life might be taken have thought and prayed about this for weeks. First, we can look to the Old Testament to see how GOD many times dealt with evil and who HE used as instruments. Second, we can look at the Bible descriptions of rulers, authority, and rendering unto Caesar. These thoughts don't relieve the moral questions about war, but they are the beginning foundation to study this issue. We know that some of the mightiest warriors in history were God's children, both before and after the CROSS.

We are definitely talking about dealing with evil, though I know that innocent people are also being killed and injured. Can the question still heavily involve GOD'S Will? YES, I say that it does. We saw what happened when tyrants like Hitler and Stalin weren't stopped. I don't know the casualty figures for Stalin, but many estimates for WWII near 50 million people. People talk about Vietnam and how wrong America was in trying to fight that war, but 3 million people gave up their lives when we stopped trying.

NOW, we are talking about barbaric killers with a primary target of innocent people. It's anyone's guess what happens if we don't stop them or at least try to contain them. They want the worst weapons in existence, and they will use them for little or no reason if they get them. Are we still the tools of GOD to control, contain, or try to stop evil? In many ways, I think that's exactly what we are. Further, I thought exactly this way as a police officer for 25 years. I dreaded taking a human life, but I was prepared to do it. I give thanks that I never had to take a human life, but many of my fellow officers did, and many of my fellow officers were killed in their effort to serve.

All taking of human life is UGLY, but there are obviously times when there are very few choices. I must add that the wrong choice might result in the loss of many MORE lives, including innocents. In my mind, I know that the hearts of Christian warriors hurt, and they have to pray for guidance and strength. They put everything together from the Holy Bible and consider all along with their orders and their wishes to return home to their families. It is not an easy task, and this is one of the reasons why we need to pray for them every day. Vast majorities of our armed forces and police services are Christians. I would much rather have Christians in these positions than the lost, simply because they have wrestled with Godly life and death issues and they probably pray numerous times every day.

We know that Christian warriors can't even the scales between good and evil for every action that is taken, especially in war. In war, they might not even know where the bombs are falling - just their orders and a kill or be killed enemy. If the Christian warrior lives to the end of the day, he or she still wrestles with the thoughts of good and evil, duty, orders, mission, and why they are fighting. This is just one reason why we should support them IF WE SEND THEM. That one Christian can't possibly weigh all of the factors and live to the end of the day in a war, so even Christians make mistakes in wars. This is just one reason why war is so UGLY, BUT the failure to act might be hundreds or thousands of times worse.

Brother, I know that Pastor Roger will have much more to say on this issue, and his information will probably make a lot more sense.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 121:2 NASB  My help comes from the LORD, Who made heaven and earth.

[BLAD]

I believe defending ourselves is not a problem but going to war just to conquer is  or going to war to impose our wil is a no no...  

in the old testatments they go war because God say so or as for David he inquired to the Lord first if he had to.

well in our time... we have to defend ourselves.

for what Israel do, i do not know. I hope they are on God side coz' just like the Israelites that went to the promise land after God said he will not go with them (before the 40 years in wilderness) well they will just loss....  

[Shammu]

I have always believed this too DW.   Still, I'm finding it difficult to separate this scripturally.

Love for sinners is not reason to keep quiet about sin. Instead it is a reason we should speak out against it.

Lev 19:17-18 You shall not hate your brother in your heart; but you shall surely rebuke your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. 18 You shall not take revenge or bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord.

Love your neighbor as yourself, do not hate him. But this does not mean to keep quiet about his sins. It means rebuke him without seeking personal vengeance. We are not seeking to hurt the person, but to help him. Hate the sin, but love the sinner.

Prov 17:15 He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the righteous are both an abomination [exceedingly disgusting and hateful] to the Lord.

We must hate sin if we are to avoid falling into its evil snare but we must see past the sin and see people around us as souls which are loved so much by Christ that He gave Himself for us all. The glitter of sin is always around us and if we do not learn to hate its stench we will be drawn into its grasp and soon be heading down the path which leads into the lake of fire.

In Matthew chapter 7 we are instructed not to judge anyone because in the way we judge we will be judged ourselves. We are to look beyond the things we perceive to be wrong and see the person and love them with the same Love Jesus has shown to us. We humans have a tendency to see faults in others while we think ourselves perfect and here Jesus is pointing out that we are a bad if not worse than the fault we are judging in someone else. If we build our faith upon Christ Jesus who is the rock of Salvation, we will withstand any storm which comes against us. However, if we build our faith upon the things of the world when the storms assail we will fall and our fall will be great and possibly eternal.

God loves mankind and He is love........ hang on to those truths. The Bible clearly teaches that God is love, as well as that God shows love.

1 John 4:8-9 He who does not love has not become acquainted with God [does not and never did know Him], for God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest (displayed) where we are concerned: in that God sent His Son, the only begotten or unique [Son], into the world so that we might live through Him.

How exactly does that work? We hate sin by refusing to take part in it and by condemning it when we see it. Sin is not be hated, not excused or taken lightly. We love the sinner by being faithful in witnessing to them of the forgiveness that is available through Jesus Christ. A true act of love is treating someone with respect and kindness even though they know you do not approve of their lifestyle and/or choice. It is not loving to allow a person to remain stuck in sin. It is not hateful to tell a person they are in sin. In fact, the exact opposites are true.

[nChrist]

2nd Timothy,

Brother, I just thought of some things that directly apply to your questions.

Who is the biggest provider of food, medical supplies, and humanitarian aid to our enemies?  We are.

Who tried for years with diplomacy and other things that never work with terrorists? We did.

Who will help them after it's all over? We will.

Just a few more thoughts.

Love In Christ,
Tom

Psalms 18:2 NASB  The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, My God, my rock, in whom I take refuge; My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.