Does Election necessarily mean Rejection?

[Left Coast]

God gives hearing to hear His Word , faith to trust and believe, and everything else men need to come to Jesus by faith, that they might receive the gift of eternal life, and He does it, for those whom he did foreknow (Rom 8:29-30) while they are dead in sin and trespass, because Jesus Christ died for us while we were yet sinners,(Rom 5:8-10) and we are saved by His life, which is our HOPE.

We who are saved speak boldly, claiming salvation (because we believe Gods Word), as though we possess it presently, but in reality we possess the first fruits of our salvation which if the Spirit of God, which is the earnest of our inheritance waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. (Rom 8:23)

I have never said differently.

It seeems to me you build your doctrine on two verses, 1 Jhn 3:23 and James 2:19 is the other one.

Nope I build it on the entire bible.
Maybe this will help. I truly pray that it does.
Man is spiritually dead.

Colossians 2:13 ¶ And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Ephesians 2:1 ¶ And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Ephesians 2:5  Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Like Lazarus in the grave we can do nothing.

John 11:43  And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth.
John 11:44  And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go.

The Lord does it all.
God gives us another picture of the work He does, we are like dry bones:

Ezekiel 37:1 ¶ The hand of the LORD was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the LORD, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones,
Ezekiel 37:2  And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.
Ezekiel 37:3  And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord GOD, thou knowest.
Ezekiel 37:4  Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Ezekiel 37:5  Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
Ezekiel 37:6  And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 37:7  So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
Ezekiel 37:8  And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.
Ezekiel 37:9  Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live.
Ezekiel 37:10  So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.
 
And while those two verses seem to be your only focus against me I have used a few other verses also. I copied and pasted this from post 86.

Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

Because God has given us a new heart we can keep Gods commandments

Ezekiel 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

You want verse 20 to come before verse 19.
It is Gods commandment to believe verse 19 states we can only keep Gods commandments AFTER He has given us a new heart. This is further strengthened in Hebrews:

Hebrews 10:16  This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
Hebrews 10:17  And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
More to follow............

[Left Coast]

So we are actually saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it. (Rom 8:24-25)

I think, repeat think, you misunderstood those verses. I am not sure of your understanding.
We have hope in Christ. We have faith that He has done the necessary work. It is not because of our faith or hope that we are saved but we have hope and faith that He has paid for our sins. All sorts of people believe they are one of His. It is their hope and expectation that they are. But the bible says that He never knew them.

Matthew 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
 
We are saved by GRACE. See Ephesians 2:5 that I used earlier.
We are saved when God changes us. Grace, Gods mercy upon us to take someone that is dead and give them life so that they can hear, believe, have faith and thus have hope of salvation.

The natural man who can receive nothing from God, nor understand anything, he can trust the Word of God and repent of their sin of unbelief, when God the Spirit works in the drawing of that man to the truth; what is the truth??

That we are all sinners, are dead in sin, and those who are willing are given hearing to hear the Gospel;

You are so close to the truth with this unfortunately you think that man has enough good to trust and repent. And of course babies cannot, so you have a misunderstanding of the gospel.
Concerning Acts 10:1-48:
Notice verse 44:

Acts 10:44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

It is here that He changes their hearts. The result of that? They believed!

Two questions come into my mind now.
1. Do you believe water baptism is a requirement for salvation?
2. Are you someone that feels tongues is available today?

When the Holy Ghost came upon them it was then that they were baptized BY the Holy Spirit. Water Baptism was a sign they were under the hearing of the Gospel.

Acts 10:47  Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

To baptize means to wash, with spiritual implications.

Acts 1:5  For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized {baptizo} with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.  
Mark 7:4  And when they come from the market, except they wash {baptizo}, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

We are washed in the blood of the Lamb when we become saved.

1 John 1:7  But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

That is why in the Old Testament the priest would sprinkle blood upon the people.
I am not going to go to much in to this I really am not sure what you believe on baptism.

2 Cor 5
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Absolutely that is what I have been saying. When we become a new creature, born again, given a circumcised heart, a heart of flesh, we are saved and ABLE TO BELIEVE TOTALLY THAT IT IS GODS WORK.
Concerning Acts 15. This is getting old, time and time again I have shown you the scripture that says it is God that gives us the ability to believe. That is why I have repeated John 6:29 so many times. For some reason you don’t seem to be able to hear it. Strangely at one time I thought you also believed God was the one that gave us the ability to believe.
No matter how many times you try to repeat your gospel it still has one glairing hole---babies cannot follow it. The true gospel is not limited.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

You haven’t used this verse. I think one of the reasons I have hope for you is because you know that we can’t receive him.
Generally it is said that Christ died for everyone and all we have to do is receive the free gift. But this verse also has a companion verse.

John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

I did not isolate John 3:27 I tried to show you that God often tells us that we can do something to save ourselves. Since we cannot do them he gives us a solution. I don’t think it was your fault you didn’t understand my point I didn’t make it very well.  
John 3:27 is the solution to John 1:12.
Deuteronomy 30:6 is the solution to Deuteronomy 10:16.
You like to use Romans 10:9 the solution is Proverbs 16:1.
You like to use several verses that say we have to believe and the solution to those is the above verses and John 6:29.
You confuse the scripture you confuse what I say, (that does help me to think through what I say a little more carefully.) and you have confused those that I have quoted.
You say I don’t understand Spurgeon, I am sure there is some things he says that I do not understand. Could you be more specific?
You need to deal with the babies.
What is your stand on tongues and water baptism?
Is there any teacher you could point to that sees it as you do?
And when you have misunderstood so many things, why is it you can’t acknowledge those things you have misunderstood?

[Petro]

Left Coast,

You can carry on without me, I won't waste my time with you anymore, it is fruitless.

Just tell me?

Are you a follower of Garner Ted Armstrong...??

Petro

[Left Coast]

Left Coast,

You can carry on without me, I won't waste my time with you anymore, it is fruitless.

Just tell me?

Are you a follower of Garner Ted Armstrong...??

Petro

NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!
Are you nuts???
Why can't you see?
Are you a Scientologist?

[Petro]

Left Coast,

You can carry on without me, I won't waste my time with you anymore, it is fruitless.

Just tell me?

Are you a follower of Garner Ted Armstrong...??

Petro

NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!!!
Are you nuts???
Why can't you see?
Are you a Scientologist?

left coast,

I am amazed, you used to be a Calvinist, then changed to ArmenianISM, and know you are a Hyper Calvinist, with a dash of Semi PeligianISM.

I couldn't figure you out, but I know that is what you have become, by considering this doctrine of yours.

Man must be saved, before God can give him, hear to hear, or understanding to understand.

You have wondered along way from the truth.


Petro

[Left Coast]

Petro I know what I am.
You are such a confused person you don't have a clue.
I don't know how you go through life so confused.
I asked information about you also evidently you are so confused you don't even know what to think about yourself.
This may help you, I don't know.

http://www.founders.org/abstract.html



When the original charter of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary was adopted in 1858 it contained the following statement which continues as a part of the "fundamental laws." "Every professor of the institution shall be a member of a regular Baptist Church; and all persons accepting professorships in this Seminary shall be considered, by such acceptance, as engaging to teach in accordance with, and not contrary to, the Abstract of Principles hereinafter laid down, a departure from which principles on his part shall be grounds for his resignation or removal by the Trustees."

The Abstract Of Principles

I. The Scriptures.
The Scriptures of the Old and New Testament were given by inspiration of God, and are the only sufficient, certain and authoritative rule of all saving knowledge, faith and obedience.
II. God.
There is but one God, the Maker, Preserver and Ruler of all things, having in and of himself, all perfections, and being infinite in them all; and to Him all creatures owe the highest love, reverence and obedience.
III. The Trinity.
God is revealed to us as Father, Son and Holy Spirit each with distinct personal attributes, but without division of nature, essence or being.
IV. Providence.
God from eternity, decrees or permits all things that come to pass, and perpetually upholds, directs and governs all creatures and all events; yet so as not to destroy the free will and responsibility of intelligent creatures.
V. Election.
Election is God's eternal choice of some persons unto everlasting life -- not because of foreseen merit in them, but of his mere mercy in Christ -- in consequence of which choice they are called, justified and glorified.
VI. The Fall of Man.
God originally created man in His own image, and free from sin; but, through the temptation of Satan, he transgressed the command of God, and fell from his original holiness and righteousness; whereby his posterity inherit a nature corrupt and wholly opposed to God and His law, are under condemnation, and as soon as they are capable of moral action, become actual transgressors.
VII. The Mediator.
Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, is the divinely appointed mediator between God and man. Having taken upon Himself human nature, yet without sin, He perfectly fulfilled the Law, suffered and died upon the cross for the salvation of sinners. He was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended to His Father, at whose hand He ever liveth to make intercession for His people. He is the only Mediator, the Prophet, Priest and King of the Church, and Sovereign of the Universe.
VIII. Regeneration.
Regeneration is a change of heart, wrought by the Holy Spirit, who quickeneth the dead in trespasses and sins enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the Word of God, and renewing their whole nature, so that they love and practice holiness. It is a work of God's free and special grace alone.
IX. Repentance.
Repentance is an evangelical grace, wherein a person being, by the Holy Spirit, made sensible of the manifold evil of his sin, humbleth himself for it, with godly sorrow, detestation of it, and self-abhorrence, with a purpose and endeavor to walk before God so as to please Him in all things.
X. Faith.
Saving faith is the belief, on God's authority, of whatsoever is revealed in His Word concerning Christ; accepting and resting upon Him alone for justification and eternal life. It is wrought in the heart by the Holy Spirit, and is accompanied by all other saving graces, and leads to a life of holiness.
XI. Justification.
Justification is God's gracious and full acquittal of sinners, who believe in Christ, from all sin, through the satisfaction that Christ has made; not for anything wrought in them or done by them; but on account of the obedience and satisfaction of Christ, they receiving and resting on Him and His righteousness by faith.
XII. Sanctification.
Those who have been regenerated are also sanctified, by God's word and Spirit dwelling in them. This sanctification is progressive through the supply of Divine strength, which all saints seek to obtain, pressing after a heavenly life in cordial obedience to all Christ's commands.
XIII. Perseverance of the Saints.
Those whom God hath accepted in the Beloved, and sanctified by His Spirit, will never totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere to the end; and though they may fall, through neglect and temptation, into sin, whereby they grieve the Spirit, impair their graces and comforts, bring reproach on the Church, and temporal judgments on themselves, yet they shall be renewed again unto repentance, and be kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.
XIV. The Church.
The Lord Jesus is the Head of the Church, which is composed of all his true disciples, and in Him is invested supremely all power for its government. According to his commandment, Christians are to associate themselves into particular societies or churches; and to each of these churches he hath given needful authority for administering that order, discipline and worship which he hath appointed. The regular officers of a Church are Bishops, or Elders, and Deacons.
XIX. The Resurrection.
The bodies of men after death return to dust, but their spirits return immediately to God -- the righteous to rest with Him; the wicked to be reserved under darkness to the judgment. At the last day, the bodies of all the dead, both just and unjust, will be raised.
XX. The Judgment.
God hath appointed a day, wherein he will judge the world by Jesus Christ, when every one shall receive according to his deeds; the wicked shall go into everlasting punishment; the righteous, into everlasting life.

I am so sorry for you.
I do pray for you that you will come to understanding.
You are so confused.

[Petro]

left coast,

So what are you trying to say now, that you are Southern Baptist??

I'm not, so none of this means anything to me, and I am not interested in knowing anything about what this religion, which harbored KKK members and holds to doctrines of hate teaches.

You might, but what can else I say, you my friend are wrong!




Blessings to you anyhow..

Petro

[aw]

You guys know the difference between a northern and southern baptist?

Northern one says, "There ain't no hell."

Southern one says, "The hell there ain't."

Hurumph, I am a southerner but not baptist. A child of the King who has redeemed me from hell.

aw

[Petro]

aw,

Good one........,

Blesings,
Petro

[Left Coast]

Petro I am a Christian. Period.
Most Southern Baptists today are Freewill believers. I cannot agree with them.
But originally they were not. Originally, they were believers in Election.
Don't be so prejudice. Satan likes to hide in all sorts of churches. He wants to tear them down. The SB Churches are very independent if some go off the deep end it doesn’t mean they all do.
Today supposedly there are some SBC that still follow the foundation. I’ve never found one but I live in a tiny corner of the world.
I left off some of the Principles because I don’t agree with them. A hyper Calvinist believes you don’t need to get the word out because God will save the ones He wants anyway. That is not my belief.
I am not a hyper Calvinist.
I am not a follower of Ted Armstrong. I don’t know or care what he teaches.
I am not an Armenian.
It doesn’t come out of my own head.
You have made all sorts of accusations as to what I am, what I believe, and where those beliefs come from. You have been wrong every time.
This is probably going to be boring but I am going to give you some of my background. I am sure all you will do is try to find something in it to show I am insane, I am not. However I have 4 kids and they have tried hard to make me insane.
I am 51 years old.
I am a retired hippy.
At one time I believed in reincarnation. A little less than 25 years ago I was told the bible supported reincarnation. Problem was the devil had removed most references and confused the others. Living and dying by the sword was one example. There are others.
I saw that everyone liked to use the bible to prove their point. As a reincarnationist I believed in many gods, but one above all others.
I decided to read the bible for truth, a little less than 20 years ago.
Every time, before I read, I prayed something like this:

God I don’t know who you are.
I don’t know if you even exist.
I don’t know if you are Jesus.
I don’t know if Jesus was just a great teacher.
I don’t know if Jesus was a con artist.
But please show me the truth.
I feel that if there is a truth, it is in this book.

And I would read. I didn’t want to be influenced by outside sources. I wouldn’t look at the headings above the chapters. I didn’t look at any commentaries. I didn’t go to church. I didn’t talk to others about this. I only read the words of the bible. I had a burning desire to know the truth.
I didn’t read from beginning to end but instead I bounced around, from book to book.
When I saw verses that said God gives us the eyes to see and the ears to hear that became my prayer.
It became very evident to me reincarnation was a false teaching.
Bouncing from book to book I often would find relationships between verses to explain verses. For instance:

Jesus removed a devil from a child and his disciples asked why they were not able to do it. Jesus answered:

Matthew 17:21  Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

This doesn’t seem to make sense. What does going without food have to do anything. The  solution:

Isaiah 58:6  Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

To loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, the oppressed go free, we are yoked to sin and eternal death. The gospel conquers sin. To fast is to bring the gospel.

I came to understand that Jesus was God made flesh. That He paid for mans’ sins.
I started to attend my wife’s church, A Southern Baptist. When I began to be a Christian she divorced me in 1986. We were back together in late ‘87 she walked out again, after getting angry at our son, I was reading the bible, 7½ years ago.
I began to think that salvation was based on our freewill decision.
My job took me out of town. As I traveled I listened to various Christian radio stations some good teachers some bad and some totally wacked. If I was out of town on Sunday I would visit various churches some I walked out on, some I learned from.  
I have worked all over Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, California, and Arizona. I have also made trips to Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, and Oklahoma.
I am a photographer. I have photographed Church directories.
I would read the materials in the various churches, different statements of faith.
I would talk to pastors, deacons, and various Christians. When working on Wednesdays I would hear all sorts of sermons. Some times I wanted to walk out, but I was working. Other times I have heard good preaching and was blessed.
Often I would camp instead of stay in a motel, I’m from Oregon I prefer the outdoors. Camping removed the television distraction. I would sit with my Coleman lantern two bibles, an interlinear, and a Strong’s.
I didn’t use Strong’s so much for defining words, as it was written by man. Instead I used it to see where else certain words appeared. Many words are translated various ways so I let God give the understanding by comparing scripture with scripture.
I began to question the freewill idea. I started to lean toward the thought that God chose who He was going to save. For several years I wondered which was right.
One time, while I was working in Bremerton WA. I wasn’t going to be able to go home. I only had Sunday off. I spent the whole week praying that God would help me find a good church to attend. All day every chance I had it was my prayer.
On Sunday I went to a church the pastor gave a sermon that had nothing really to do with the gospel other than what a great fellowship he had with the church. I don’t fault him he was retiring, it was his farewell sermon. I stayed to the end hoping for some message of salvation, he never gave one. But in the end he mentioned he was selling some of his library. On the table was a book of sermons from Spurgeon. It cost me $2.50.
Back at camp I randomly selected a sermon to read, Infant Salvation.
One of the reasons I have quoted this sermon so much is because of the impact it had on my life. I read verses like:

We believe, therefore, that even before the intellect can work, God, who worketh not by the will of man, nor by blood, but by the mysterious agency of his Holy Spirit, creates the infant soul a new creature in Christ Jesus, and then it enters into the "rest which remaineth for the people of God." By election, by redemption, by regeneration, the child enters into glory, by the selfsame door by which every believer in Christ Jesus hopes to enter, and in no other way.

Next I read another sermon and this sealed it for me.
From Elijah's Appeal to the Undecided:

I may preach to you, my hearers; and all the ministers in the world may preach to you that are wavering, but you will never decide for God through the force of your own will. None of you, if left to your natural judgment, to the use of your own reason, will ever decide for God. You may decide for him merely as an outward form, but not as an inward spiritual thing, which should possess your heart as a Christian, as a believer in the doctrine of effectual grace. I know that none of you will ever decide for God's gospel, unless God decide you; and I tell you that you must either be decided by the descent of the fire of his Spirit into your hearts now, or else in the day of judgment.

I am not a follower of anyone. Spurgeon understood election very well but he was only a man.
The original Southern Baptists understood election but they also were not perfect.
I check what I hear against the scripture, I trust God to guide me. He has not let me down.

[Petro]

left coast,

Well that is a wondeful testimony, it is proof God saves anybody who places their trust in his word.

Which is evident to me, apparently it isn't to you, since you claim one must be saved sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit before one can believe.

Hyper calvinists actually believe exactly this point, that is that  God saves those who don't even want to be saved, much less ask or pray for it, in fact they don't even pray to be forgiven nor repent, before being saved, they are saved against their will, and then the do all these things,hear,  repent, confess, believe and are sealed.

This is not true because if one seeks the truth elsewhere, he will never be granted to hear the  truth of Gods word.

It don't make sense, how you can subscribe to this point is beyond me.

But I am happy for you.  I say keep reading and studying, in do time, God will lead you to understand the mystery of this to you..

Oh.. PS  By the way Garner Ted, teaches this same point that a person is saved first then all these other things are added unto him, unfortunately salvation to him and others means belonging to the church they ascribe to.

There are so many teachings out there today, one better, know and understand what the scriptures teach in order to recognize what is true and what is error, this is what separates them that are of age, form them that are not.

Because the object of every Christian is to discern truth and refute error, since it is by excersizing his senses that one can discern good from bad.

Piling doctrines for here and there into one big gigantic man made gospel message isn't what makes it true, at all.


Blessings,
Petro

[Left Coast]

Petro,
It wasn’t until I was saved that I UNDERSTOOD His word.
I had an intellectual understanding, and many feel that is believing. But there is a difference between that understanding and truly BELIEVING. You don’t understand that difference yet. I know now that it was ALL His work. I rest entirely on that very comfort. Because it is all His work I am at piece.
I had a health scare this year, preliminary blood tests suggested my liver was not healthy. My father died of liver disease, he was not an alcoholic. I considered the possibility I might only live 5-10 years. I was in absolute comfort with it, because I new God was in total control.
They took all my blood did an ultrasound and came to the conclusion the liver is fine, the thyroid is acting like a 7 year old boy with too much sugar and too much caffeine. It’s hyperactive.
Because the liver readings were weird I am careful as to what I do.
But the comfort of knowing God is in total control and my salvation is not based on my work just can’t be explained. If it was because I believed I would worry because there are times when I have doubted. If it was because of my repenting, I would be lost. I can’t seem to totally live a sinless life.

Hyper calvinists actually believe exactly this point, that is that God saves those who don't even want to be saved, much less ask or pray for it, in fact they don't even pray to be forgiven nor repent, before being saved, they are saved against their will, and then the do all these things,hear, repent, confess, believe and are sealed.

ALL Calvinists believe that. Did you read Spurgeon’s sermon that I quoted above?

From Elijah's Appeal to the Undecided:

I may preach to you, my hearers; and all the ministers in the world may preach to you that are wavering, but you will never decide for God through the force of your own will. None of you, if left to your natural judgment, to the use of your own reason, will ever decide for God. You may decide for him merely as an outward form, but not as an inward spiritual thing, which should possess your heart as a Christian, as a believer in the doctrine of effectual grace. I know that none of you will ever decide for God's gospel, unless God decide you; and I tell you that you must either be decided by the descent of the fire of his Spirit into your hearts now, or else in the day of judgment.

Don’t you understand that we are spiritually dead. DEAD.

But I am happy for you. I say keep reading and studying, in do time, God will lead you to understand the mystery of this to you..

It is not a mystery. I understand your idea BUT IT CANNOT WORK. You on the other hand have not understood what I have been saying. Could it be that your pride is in the way?
You still have not answered my questions. Some should be very simple answers.
Do you believe that the gift of tongues is available today?
Have you ever spoken in tongues?
Where do you stand on water baptism?
Who can you quote to show these ideas aren’t coming out of YOUR head?
The next question you have shown you can’t answer:
How do babies believe, confess, and repent?