Was Jesus Forsaken?

[christserf]

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Many take this to mean that on the cross the Father forsook Jesus.  I'm not so sure about that.  For one thing, Jesus appears to be quoting Psalms 22:1.

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?

This psalm contains many Messianic prophecies which were being fulfilled at that time.

Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, [saying], 
Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD [that] he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. 

Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 

Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. 

If Jesus was forsaken does that mean that He wasn't God, or that there were two Gods?  If not, then in what sense was He actually forsaken?

In Yahweh's Love and Truth,

Christ's Serf

[Skipdawg]

I do not believe Jesus the son was forsaken here but all the sin he was taking on. Remember Jesus bore the cross to take away all our sins. And at that moment Jesus had all our sins to take with Him in this sacrificial death.

God the Father turned away from all the sin Jesus was bearing for us, all the pain. Just as a earthly father hates to see their child in pain I think in a spiritual example this is what was happening here. God turning away from all that sin Jesus was baring for all of us. For Jesus was indeed sinless.

[Len]

I dunno, guys. Think about it. God the Father cannot look upon sin and still be God. Neither can He be the Father of sin. And the burden of that sin had to be borne by Jesus alone. I believe He was indeed forsaken.

The Old Testament was a foretelling of Jesus' words and not the other way around. Remember that the gambling for His clothes is in the Old Testament. I doubt seriously that they gambled for His clothes to meet prophecy. Rather, prophecy was written that there would be no mistake as to the authenticity of Christ.

[led by the spirit]

Even Jesus himself admitted that he did the will of the Father,he always talked about God as the father,  not just the father of him only but of us aswell.Jesus in order to die like a man had to do it alone just as each and everyone of us must do aswell.He was fosaken.For some this may come as a surprise but Yes.Jesus was created by God just like everything else was.Pnder this one Jesus was the first born among many.Hmmmnnnnn!God bless .So be it.

[1witness]

For some this may come as a surprise but Yes.Jesus was created by God just like everything else was.

Can you please elaborate...
Hasn't Jesus always existed as part of the Trinity?
Or are you referring to His human birth?

[Soldier4Christ]

Jesus was created by God just like everything else was.Pnder this one Jesus was the first born among many.

"Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature" (Colossians 1:15).

A widespread cultic heresy based on this verse claims that Jesus Christ was not eternal, but merely the first being created -- perhaps an angel -- before becoming a man. Note, however, that the verse does not say He was the "first created of every creature," but the "first born of every creature," and there is a big difference. In fact, the very next verse says that "by Him were all things created" (v.16). He was never created, for He Himself is the Creator. "All things were made by Him; and without Him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3).

He is "born" of God, not "made," the "only begotten Son" of God (John 3:16). "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him" (John 1:18). The eternal Father is omnipresent, and therefore invisible, inaudible, inaccessible to the physical senses. The eternally existing Son is the "image" of the invisible Father, the One who declares, reveals, embodies His essence. Although He is always "in the bosom of the Father," yet He is eternally also "the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His person" (Hebrews 1:3). He is the eternal, living Word, which was "in the beginning with God" (John 1:2), and which "was God" (John 1:1).

Thus the phrase, "firstborn of every creature" in our text, can be translated literally as "begotten before all creation." The eternal inter-relationship of the Persons of the Godhead is beyond human comprehension in its fullness, and the terms, "Son" and "begotten" are the best human language can do to describe it. Jesus Christ, the Word made flesh, is the only begotten, eternally generated, Son of the Father, forever shining forth as the image of the otherwise invisible God.

[nChrist]

Even Jesus himself admitted that he did the will of the Father,he always talked about God as the father,  not just the father of him only but of us aswell.Jesus in order to die like a man had to do it alone just as each and everyone of us must do aswell.He was fosaken.For some this may come as a surprise but Yes.Jesus was created by God just like everything else was.Pnder this one Jesus was the first born among many.Hmmmnnnnn!God bless .So be it.

led by the spirit,

JESUS CHRIST was and is VERY GOD, the Eternal God, THE CREATOR! In eternity past, JESUS CHRIST WAS! JESUS CHRIST was not created. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are all LIVING REALITIES, yet they are one.

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen brother Jesus Christ always has been and always will be very God.

Can you please elaborate...
Hasn't Jesus always existed as part of the Trinity?
Or are you referring to His human birth?

Yes Raven he has always existed as a part of the Trinity. Even in His birth in the flesh as we are told this in many places in the Bible.

[1witness]

He is "born" of God, not "made," the "only begotten Son" of God (John 3:16).

He is the eternal, living Word, which was "in the beginning with God" (John 1:2), and which "was God" (John 1:1).

Thank you Pastor Roger, your right that we (I) will never understand the Triune Godhead.
It is beyond our reasoning that the word eternal means, "without  beginning or end".
My understanding is the beginning is referring to the creation of the Heavens and the Earth as written in Genesis and John.

I have listened to many debates on whether the entire Trinity is eternal.
My belief is that Jesus as the Son of God, was part of God and therefore is God, just as the Holy Spirit is.
Therefore they are also eternal...

I may ask a lot of questions to help with my understanding...
I have been a Christian for many years, but have only recently (past couple years) tried to better comprehend theology.
It's hard on my head.
Take Care,  Marc.

[Soldier4Christ]

Amen Raven. It is understandable to have questions. We all do. There are some things though that when we do study the Bible as we should, and not one of the false bibles that some choose to use, we will find the answers. One of the many places in which we see that Jesus was and is eternal is in 1Jo 1:1-2.


1Jo 1:1  That which was from the beginning, that which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, that which we beheld, and our hands handled, concerning the Word of life
1Jo 1:2  (and the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare unto you the life, the eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us);

Also if we read carefully in Genesis 1 we clearly see the mention of God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit all as one taking place in the creation of all things.

[ibTina]

Thank you Pastor Roger, your right that we (I) will never understand the Triune Godhead.
It is beyond our reasoning that the word eternal means, "without  beginning or end".
My understanding is the beginning is referring to the creation of the Heavens and the Earth as written in Genesis and John.

Amen!!! And this is part of the mystery perhaps concerning this topic.... 'something' happened but too far complexed for us to understand how God works... FAITH!!!!!!!

         In Jesus..Tina

[Len]

For some, it is difficult to believe Jesus is God the Son, second Person of the Trinity. The Triune God, including God the Father, God the Son...Jesus Christ, and God the Holy Spirit. Such incredible glory is that truth.  Now Paul said in Romans that the glory of God can be seen in His creation.

Take the room in which you are reading this post. It is only one room made up of 3 dimensions...height, width, and depth (or length, if you prefer). One room...3 dimensions. Take away one of those 3 dimensions and what happens to the room? It is no longer. Each of the dimensions is essential to the others.

Consider the 3 dimensions of time...future, present, and past. (Yes, I listed them in "reverse" order to conventional wisdom...time actually flows from the future, through the present, and into the past.  ) One time line...3 dimensions. But remove one of those 3 dimensions, and time no longer is. Again, each dimension is essential.

So you see, God's glory can be seen in time and space...2 of His creations.

Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews of His time on earth recognized this fact. It is the reason they wanted to stone Him. He forgave sin. Only God can do that. So if Jesus claimed to be God but was not, that would make Him a liar, and hence a sinner, and not worthy to be a sacrifice for any but himself.

So if Jesus claimed to be God but never sinned (to include lying), He has to be God.

Oh, the incredible beauty of truth as it is found in His holy Word! There is none like anywhere else!

To Jesus Christ be all glory, honor, and praise.

[Soldier4Christ]

Oh, the incredible beauty of truth as it is found in His holy Word! There is none like anywhere else!

To Jesus Christ be all glory, honor, and praise.

Amen Len all praises belong to Him! Praise God for His wonderful merciful salvation.

[linssue55]

Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Many take this to mean that on the cross the Father forsook Jesus.  I'm not so sure about that.  For one thing, Jesus appears to be quoting Psalms 22:1.

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? [why art thou so] far from helping me, [and from] the words of my roaring?

This psalm contains many Messianic prophecies which were being fulfilled at that time.

Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, [saying], 
Psa 22:8 He trusted on the LORD [that] he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him. 

Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. 

Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture. 

If Jesus was forsaken does that mean that He wasn't God, or that there were two Gods?  If not, then in what sense was He actually forsaken?

In Yahweh's Love and Truth,

Christ's Serf

See if this helps to explain the foresaking........


27:46~~At about three o'clock Jesus screamed with a loud voice and kept on saying, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachthani?" which means, "My God, My God, why have You rejected/forsaken Me?"


{Note: "My God, My God why have you forsake Me?' was a prophecy of Psalms 22:1. As the lamb was quiet before the shearer . . . Jesus was quiet throughout His ordeal. He did not cry out until after 3 hours of having our sins imputed to Him and judged. After 3 hours, the Humanity of Christ is spiritually dead and the Father and the Holy Spirit forsake him . . . and He cries out.}


{Note: The first vocative was addressed to the Father, the second vocative was addressed to God the Holy Spirit, who rejected Jesus in spiritual death as the penalty for the sins of humanity. The blood of Christ refers to His spiritual death-not His physical death.}


{Note: IF there was any separation of the deity of Christ from the humanity of Christ, it would be at this time. Deity can not 'have contact/fellowship' with sin. We do not know this for sure.}


27:47~~When some of those standing there heard it, they said, "This One is calling for Elijah."



{Note: They thought when Jesus screamed the vocative "Eli" that He was calling for Elijah and the crowd became very interested. They wanted to see if Elijah would come to 'save' Jesus'. Perhaps that this may be the fulfillment of the last two chapters of Malachi that foretold the coming of Elijah. But, RBT said that Malachi really referred to the coming of John the Baptist as 'Elijah'. Elijah will return as one of the two witnesses in the Tribulation also.}


{Note: From John 19:28-29, we know that while they were waiting around to see if Elijah would appear, Jesus said, "I thirst".}


27:48~~Immediately one of them {probably John} ran and got a sponge, filled it with cheap wine, put it on a stick {a cane or measuring stick}, and offered it to Him to drink.


27:49~~But the rest said, "Get away. Let us see if Elijah will come to save Him."


27:50~~Then Jesus cried out again in a loud voice and 'gave up'/dismissed His spirit {spirit which went into the presence of the Father}.

{Note: See also John 19:30 and Luke 23:46.}


{Note: His body goes into the grave of Joseph of Arimathea, and His soul went to Hades or Sheol, specifically to the part known as Abraham's bosom or Paradise. This is where the souls of the Old Testament saints went until after the resurrection.}

[friendship bunch]

  It has to do with one of the important theological tensions in the Bible. Is Jesus man or is Jesus God? Is God three or is God one? Is God sovereign or are we responsible for our choices? The correct answer to these questions is . . . "YES." Jesus is God and Jesus is man. God is 3 and God is 1. God is sovereign and we are free. Truth is two truths in constant tension. In our limited human mind this is not conceivable, but the equal tension is "truth." If you tilt toward one or the other "truth" you are actually moving into a heresy or untruth.
 
God is three and God is one. On the cross Jesus took upon himself our sins and the Father turned away. Jesus is God and the Father is God. They are separate and they are the same!
 
We take the leap of faith over and over again. We do not fully understand nor are we able to fully explain the divine and the eternal. We are limited to this "human sphere" and to "human time."  Jesus, the God-man took upon himself our sin. In that moment the Triune God was shaken by a momentary splintering and separation. Jesus the man was dead and then resurrected on the third day!