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Shammu
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« on: April 24, 2006, 03:45:49 PM »

Russian bombers flew undetected across Arctic - AF commander

RIA Novosti

MOSCOW, April 22 (RIA Novosti) - Russian military planes flew undetected through the U.S. zone of the Arctic Ocean to Canada during recent military exercises, a senior Air Force commander said Saturday.

The commander of the country's long-range strategic bombers, Lieutenant General Igor Khvorov, said the U.S. Air Force is now investigating why its military was unable to detect the Russian bombers.

"They were unable to detect the planes either with radars or visually," he said.

Khorov said that during the military exercises in April, Tu-160 Blackjack bombers and Tu-95 Bears had successfully carried out four missile launches. Bombing exercises were held using Tu-22 Blinders.

By the end of the year, two more Tu-160s will be commissioned for the long-range strategic bomber fleet, Khorov said.

Both new planes will incorporate numerous upgrades from the initial Soviet models, the commander said. The bombers will be able to launch both cruise missiles and aviation bombs, and communicate via satellite.

I can't post the link because of advertisment.
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« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2006, 03:46:44 PM »

Russia Tests New Missile Designed to Overcome U.S. Defenses

Created: 24.04.2006 12:10 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 12:10 MSK, 11 hours 32 minutes ago

MosNews

On Saturday Russia successfully test-launched a missile designed to penetrate missile defenses.

The commander of Russia’s Strategic Rocket Forces, Nikolai Solovtsov, quoted by AP, said the K65M-R had been launched from a testing ground at Kapustin Yar in the southern Astrakhan region. The main purpose of the launch was to test “a uniform warhead for land- and sea-based ballistic missiles” and newly-developed elements of a system designed to penetrate missile defenses.

The commander added that plans for a U.S. missile-defense system “could upset strategic stability.” He suggested that the test was part of an effort to ensure that Russian missiles are capable of foiling any U.S. shield. He said the test involved optic and radar measurement systems that reproduce similar U.S. systems.

“The planned scale of the United States’ deployment of a ... missile defense system is so considerable that the fear that it could have a negative effect on the parameters of Russia’s nuclear deterrence potential is quite justified,” Solovtsov said.

He added that the system being tested Saturday would make missiles more difficult to spot and their trajectories more difficult to predict.

Since its inception in 1946, the Kapustin Yar testing ground had witnessed 140 launches. Saturday’s missile launch was the first one since 1999.

Russia opposed Washington’s withdrawal in 2002 from the 1972 Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty in order to deploy a national missile defense, saying the U.S.-Soviet pact was a key element of international security. Russia’s president Vladimir Putin called the decision a mistake which would hurt global security, but not threaten Russia.

The treaty banned missile defense systems on the assumption that the fear of retaliation would prevent either nation from launching a first strike.

Russia Tests New Missile Designed to Overcome U.S. Defenses
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« Reply #2 on: April 24, 2006, 03:47:31 PM »

Iran may prompt other Mideast states to go nuclear
By Ze'ev Schiff, Haaretz Correspondent

In a comprehensive report, most of which is top secret, a military-civilian committee has determined that other Muslim countries in the Middle East could follow Iran in equipping themselves with nuclear weapons.

Endorsing the report, outgoing Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz said in remarks quoted by Army Radio on Monday that "For the first time since the days of the nation's founding, an official document has been placed before the leaders of Israel, setting out a comprehensive security viewpoint, both current and long-range."

The committee, chaired by former minister Dan Meridor and appointed by former prime minister Ariel Sharon, recommended to Mofaz on Sunday that Israel should maintain its policy of nuclear ambiguity, that as Jordan has strategic importance for Israel, its stability should be supported, and that the National Security Council should become the government's central military planning authority.

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The 250-page report, addressing strategic issues for the next decade, is considered top secret; only an elite few will be allowed to read its entire contents. After its has been redacted, it will be highly classified. It has not been decided if portions of the report will be published to familiarize the public with the Israeli defense outlook. The report recommends that defense premises be reexamined at five-year intervals and that a mechanism be established to monitor the implementation of recommendations.

A substantial chapter addresses the nuclear threat to Israel. Iran is capable of kindling the entire Middle East and constitutes an existential threat to Israel. The committee finds that if Iran gets nuclear arms, other Muslim, Middle Eastern countries will try to follow suit. The
report comments on a proposed Israeli response to Iranian nuclear testing. The committee recommends that Israel maintain its policy of "nuclear ambiguity."

In a chapter on decision-making, the committee determines that the government does not provide adequate and complete planning on defense matters. The report recommends the NSC become the central planning authority for the government and include a small agency for national
intelligence. The committee recommends minor cuts in the defense budget, and setting a five-year defense budget based on the assumption that economic growth will continue.

The report indicates that Israel faces major, rapid strategic changes including technological changes. According to the report, Israel faces new risks - the non-conventional weapon threat and terror. The committee noted that terror deterrence is complex and difficult, particularly
in territory that lacks governmental hierarchy or against organizations without territory, instead of states. The report's overall approach recommends greater emphasis on firepower, particularly remote firepower, over troop movements. which had been used in the past. It also recommends greater emphasis on intelligence and operations from outer space.

Formally, the Meridor Committee was established by Mofaz. However, Sharon approved the appointments, vetoing with no explanation former defense minister Moshe Arens and former Shin Bet chief Ami Ayalon. The report has been submitted for comment to Chief of Staff Dan Halutz, Shin Bet chief Yuval Diskin, Mossad chief Meir Dagan and Atomic Energy Committee director Gideon Frank.

The committee met 52 times over 18 months before submitting its report, during which Israel disengaged from the Gaza Strip, and Hamas won the Palestinian Authority elections.

Disputes arose among committee members on several subjects  including terror and how Israel should define it. The committee debated strategic-theoretical issues such as defining "victory" and "deterrence." In a discussion of all the types of wars, the committee proposed adding to "deterring," "warning" and "decisive," a major chapter on the various aspects of "defense."

Efforts were made in the past to summarize Israel's defense outlook under the direction of then Defense Ministry director general David Ivri, but that committee's work was essentially stopped when Ehud Barak was elected prime minister in 1999.

Iran may prompt other Mideast states to go nuclear
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« Reply #3 on: April 24, 2006, 03:48:35 PM »

Jordan king: Israel must disarm nukes

Abdullah tells Spanish paper El Pais Jordan interested in nuclear-free Middle East, says Israel must disarm its nuclear weapons. If peace is achieved, Israel will not need such arms, King states
Dudi Cohen

Jordanian King Abdullah said his country is interested in a nuclear-free Middle East and urged the international community to pressure Israel to dismantle its nuclear arsenal.

"If the world is demanding Iran doesn't develop nuclear weapons it should also demand that countries which possess nuclear weapons disarm," Abdullah said in an interview to Spanish newspaper El Pais. "For peace to be achieved in the region, Israel has to disarm its nuclear weapons."

"If there is peace," Abdullah added, "Israel will not need nuclear weapons. If the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is resolved, the Arab-Israeli conflict will also be resolved." The king also stated that Jordan wishes to see the region free from nuclear arms, and that "many states agree on that."

In February, the United States agreed to Egypt's demand to introduce a clause into the U.N.'s decision on nuclear energy stating that the Middle East should be a "nuclear weapons-free region," a decision which completely contradicts Israel's stance on the issue.

Egypt and other Arab states slammed the criticism directed at Iran over its nuclear program, charging that the world was at the same time turning a blind eye to Israel's nuclear project.

Israeli officials were however unworried about the February decision, and said at the time that "this will have no real impact on Israel, and in any case this is not the first time such a reference appears. The same thing happened when Libya decided to sign the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty."

Jordan king: Israel must disarm nukes
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2006, 03:51:40 PM »

Quote
Russian bombers flew undetected across Arctic - AF commander

That is why Pearl Harbor happened.

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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2006, 03:53:26 PM »

And heres one of the kings of the east involved.

China pledges help to stabilise the Middle East
From Richard Beeston in Riyadh
PRESIDENT Hu Jintao signalled yesterday that Beijing would play a greater role in the affairs of the Middle East when he paid a historic visit to Saudi Arabia, the main supplier of oil for China’s growing economy.

In an address to the Shura council, Saudi Arabia’s appointed legislature, the Chinese leader promised to work with Riyadh and other Arab governments on securing peace in the region.

“The Middle East is a vital region and there will be no achievements and development in the world without a stable Middle East,” said Mr Hu, only the second foreign leader invited to address the assembly.

“Under these current circumstances, China is ready to work with Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries to support peace and growth in the Middle East and build a harmonious world that enjoys constant peace and prosperity.”

Although he did not offer any specifics, Mr Hu’s remarks were seen as a direct challenge to the United States, which for the past half century has dominated security and diplomacy in the region.

China’s ruling Communist Party was at one time regarded by the deeply conservative Islamic Saudi regime as godless and untrustworthy; but the countries formed diplomatic relations in 1990 and recently have grown closer out of economic and political necessity.

Saudi Arabia wants to expand its global relations, once dominated by its strategic partnership with the US but strained after the September 11 attacks in 2001 and the subsequent invasion of Iraq.

China, the world’s second-largest oil consumer after the US, needs to build strong ties with its main supplier, which last year provided 17.5 per cent of the country’s oil needs.

Mr Hu’s visit comes only three months after King Abdullah led a commercial delegation to Beijing. On the return visit this weekend the two sides signed security, defence, health and trade agreements.

The countries also have a shared disdain for Western meddling in their internal affairs, particularly criticism over their human rights records.

The Chinese leader told his hosts that the West should not “hurl false accusations against the internal affairs of other countries, let alone blame a specific civilisation, people or religion for causing problems and conflicts in the world”. He received a standing ovation.

China pledges help to stabilise the Middle East
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2006, 03:54:50 PM »

That is why Pearl Harbor happened.


I know brother, remember the other forum I am involved with.
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2006, 08:39:30 PM »

I know brother, remember the other forum I am involved with.

This is a little different than Pearl Harbour though fellas.
The Japanese flyers were actually detected, but because of incompetence and/or conspiracy, they were ignored.

In this case, the aircraft are obviously stealth. We didn't really believe the Russians wouldn't come up with their own stealth fighters and bombers did we?

John
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2006, 09:15:24 PM »


In this case, the aircraft are obviously stealth. We didn't really believe the Russians wouldn't come up with their own stealth fighters and bombers did we?

John
Yup I posted about that, you were gone durning that time brother.
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Bronzesnake
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2006, 11:39:59 PM »

Yup I posted about that, you were gone durning that time brother.

Exactly what did you post on my brother? About Russia's stealth technology, or the events which lead up to the Pearl Harbour attack? Can I read it?

I believe I recall that you were moderator of a WWII site?
Is that right Bob?

John
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« Reply #10 on: April 25, 2006, 12:01:42 AM »

Although it is somewhat different reasons it is still the same in others. The overconfidence that no one could hit us caused a uephoric attitude. Even though we have experienced Pearl Harbor and 9/11 there is a tendency to get overconfident. We have the technology to sight jets utilizing stealth technology. Due to ths euphoria and budget battles this technology has not been employed in key strategic positions such as the one mentioned above.


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« Reply #11 on: April 25, 2006, 12:20:02 AM »

Although it is somewhat different reasons it is still the same in others. The overconfidence that no one could hit us caused a uephoric attitude. Even though we have experienced Pearl Harbor and 9/11 there is a tendency to get overconfident. We have the technology to sight jets utilizing stealth technology. Due to ths euphoria and budget battles this technology has not been employed in key strategic positions such as the one mentioned above.

Good point Pastor Roger.

I think one of the most important lessons we have not done a good job at learning, or teaching for that matter, is the fact that our enemies are very, very different today than they were in WWI and WWII - Korea - VietNam etc. We no longer face the mass armies of the wars of our forefathers. There are many, many people who are so very critical of the way things are happening in the Middle East, who just don't have a clue as to the logistics of tackling this new aged enemy.

Loads of people can't see this massive enemy army on the field, so they falsely believe we are not really at war, and from that point of view, it's so very easy to imagine that our leaders are going off the deep end. These people are for the most part very kind, and honest people, albeit severely naive.

How can they conjure up legitimate reasons for being in Iraq when all they see is burning shells of trucks, and body parts on every news reel? No longer can we measure success very easily by battle field statistics.

This is made even more confusing when we consider our so called friends, Russia, China, Germany, France etc, are actually the friends of our enemies! This adds to the pressure for our leaders to publically condemn the Middle East situation, and call for withdrawl.

That would be a very grave and serious mistake, and one which may occur depending on who takes office in the next presidential elections in the U.S.
Personally, I hope McCain gets the nod for the Republicans.

John
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« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2006, 12:37:42 AM »

Exactly what did you post on my brother? About Russia's stealth technology, or the events which lead up to the Pearl Harbour attack? Can I read it?

I believe I recall that you were moderator of a WWII site?
Is that right Bob?

John
yes I am a mod on a WW2 site.

The artical was about Russia's stealth technology, being, if I remember about 3 years behind the United States. That was some of the posts lost, when we switched forums.

Here is some of the information.

The S-32/37

The S-32/37 is a striking aeroplane, with swept-forward wings and a shape akin to the Su-27 series. Both types are manufactured by the famous Sukhoi OKB (that's SovietSpeak for Design Bureau). The foremounted canards are somewhat triangular and placed unconventionally far from the cockpit and close to the wings. The rear tail-planes are small but sleek and of unconventional design. Just about everything about this plane seems unconventional. The strange hump behind the canopy could be something to do with avionics or computer systems, but knowing previous Russian design (excluding Su-30s) this would be a departure from convention - this wouldn't be surprising. On a more conventional note, it has two ordinary looking engines, though they may be a more powerful variety of standard engines, and an IR targeting/target tracking blister mounted just in front of the canopy, which has been seen on most modern Russian military aircraft. That this aircraft is a stealth fighter is mere speculation, though it seems that it very well could be.

However, the Russian military and Government is in a precarious state right now, so the future of the S-32/37 is uncertain. A solution could be to grant export licences for production of this fighter to friendly nations - this would be a radical thing to do with stealth technology. Still, the S-37's future military career remains in doubt, though the American military should not neglect the potential of this new advance in Russian military technology. Which they have done to India.
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« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2006, 12:43:26 AM »

Although McCain had Military experience all too often he gets wishy washy. One minute he is on the democrats side and against the war and next he is on the republican side and for the war. At a point like this we need to have someone in office that is willing to stick to his guns and not go back and forth with the tide. I don't have a pick as of yet but I seriously doubt it will be McCain.

Most of the people you spoke of about being naive are such because of the media. The media reports only portions. They report the deaths of our Troops and for the most part leave out any or all of our advancements. The media also tends to make terrorists like Osama and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad out to be harmless when in fact they are not and are very capable of carrying out very deadly attacks on us.
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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2006, 01:06:49 AM »

Although McCain had Military experience all too often he gets wishy washy. One minute he is on the democrats side and against the war and next he is on the republican side and for the war. At a point like this we need to have someone in office that is willing to stick to his guns and not go back and forth with the tide. I don't have a pick as of yet but I seriously doubt it will be McCain.

Most of the people you spoke of about being naive are such because of the media. The media reports only portions. They report the deaths of our Troops and for the most part leave out any or all of our advancements. The media also tends to make terrorists like Osama and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad out to be harmless when in fact they are not and are very capable of carrying out very deadly attacks on us.

I see McCain differently, although I can see how you could view him in that manner Pastor Roger.

I think he's just honest. I don't see him towing the company line. He has very strong ideas, and he sticks with them. Sometimes it goes against the party, but usually it doesn't.

He supports the war in Iraq, although he probably would have went in with more troops. I believe that is the greatest failure of Rumsfeld's tenure. He was leery about sending in too many troops because the Dems, and the Dem media were all over him back then about not needing to send in a huge force. He took the bait, and the situation got ugly because there wasn't enough manpower to control the country in the days and weeks and months following the start of hostilities.

I totally agree with your point about the media Pastor Roger, you are right on the nail-head with that. However, at the same time, people are not willing to look at the situation through unbiased eyes, and come to the obvious conclusion that these new age enemies are every bit as deadly as a mass army on the battle field. As a matter of fact, they are even more dangerous because it's akin to having one huge special forces unit, which attacks out of thin air, and dissapears...damage done, now hunt us down!

John
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